The poll about electric gears

Spy Shot! TRP Hydraulic Road Brake Lever with Integrated Di2 Buttons

http://carytownbicyclecompany.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/hydrodi2.jpg

Boys, just remember TJ isn’t an engineer or a scientist, he is a nurse. So stop getting your knickers in a twist every time he says something. What TJ says is not actually a fact, set in stone or golden, it’s most likely poorly informed bullshit. So the simple solution is to just ignore or dismiss him and not to pander to his ego by getting caught up in one of his pedantic argue fests.

Who’s benefit is that post for toys19?

Im not ruling out electrical shifters and don’t doubt they probably work better or at least just as well but I quite like the idea of my bike components being mechanical rather than electrical with circuit boards and batteries. Maybe im getting old.

(just for the record im not agreeing with TJ, im not that agianst electronic shifting 😀 )

Creameegg – that what I actually said – and suprisingly the shimano press officer has the same reservations about using it on mountainbikes. remember you can expect him to be very optimistic and pro shimanos new developments

Shimano US press officer Devin Walton. “It makes a lot of sense for mountain bikes but there are a lot more obstacles on a trail. These parts are a lot more expensive to replace and repair and that’s definitely a concern plus the level of potential contamination steps it up a notch. It makes hypothetical sense but to make the jump into real world execution is a whole other issue.”

I don’t think it unreasoanble to question the longevity or robustness of this ina mountainbike environment and it appears so do shimano

Sram hydraulic brakes
http://i.imgur.com/UbCaA.jpg

View post on imgur.com

http://road.cc/content/news/52299-sram-red-hydraulic-discs-and-rim-brakes-spy-shots-land

I don’t have reservations about their reliability or robustness for mountain biking. I just like the idea that my mountain bike dosent rely on electrical bits and bobs. Dont know why though.

Bluetooth gears would be more interesting.

I think the more important point about electric gears on bikes is not technical, but philosophical. Do we want bicycles, that most simple, egalitarian form of transport, to be electrical? Do we want environmentally destructive batteries on our bikes? Repairing them with laptops rather than pliers and a hammer? Do we want to retain that unrivalled sense of mastery over our machines that we currently have, so unlike many of our tools in the modern world?

For me Di2 represents the beginning of the end of the very special simplicity of a bicycle.

Interesting point mansonsoul.

Good technology should simplify rather than complicate our lives. I’d probably like to see a system that can be built ground up by the user, with energy generated from some kind of hub dynamo before it would properly interest me

Anyway, back to hydraulic shifting, it’s been done (and apparently works very well):

http://www.gizmag.com/ag-e-hydraulic-shifting-for-mountain-bikes/18450/

As soon as parlee route the z5 sl properly for the electronic system, I’ll be spaffing a small fortune equipping myself with one.

Jeremy- shimano had similar reservations about alfine off road. How’s yours getting on.
They are just being their usual cautious self. They never play up the kit they make. They state facts and are quite grounded. You know they will get it right first time – it’s what they are best at.

rapid rise?

Good technology should simplify rather than complicate our lives.

It is simpler. Less maintenance, internal routing of cables so cleaner lines to the bike.

The only downside to electronic shifting is the high price. Campag’s new Super Record EPS is £3500! 😯
Di2 is cheaper but that was never intended as mass production so still high price; all the Dura Ace Di2 was made in small batches and intended for pro use. Now they’ve refined the process, simplified things a bit and introduced Ultegra Di2 (which IS mass produced) and the price will drop.

This basic argument has been the same every single time something new has come along:
friction shift -> indexed.
7sp -> 8sp
8sp -> 9sp
downtube shifters -> integrated

Every time the wailing and gnashing of teeth, the cries of it won’t work, it’ll get clogged with mud, it’s too complicated, too heavy, unnecessary blah blah, always from people who’ve never actually tried it out.

Meanwhile the people actually using it just go
“yep, it’s fine, thanks very much”

You are rather more optimistic than shimanos press officer crazy legs.

These parts are a lot more expensive to replace and repair and that’s definitely a concern plus the level of potential contamination steps it up a notch. It makes hypothetical sense but to make the jump into real world execution is a whole other issue.”

20 years!?,mountainbiking conditions? are you sure you’re not just riding your bike around the park?
😉

Have you never taken a shifter to bits? 😯

The electronic gears discussion is the same as disc brakes.

People used to say they were

– too complex
– bound to be unreliable
– heavier
– no need for them as V brakes work well
– too expensive

Yet they are now usually easily affordable, fit and forget and on most bikes – all mid to high end bikes.

Electronic shifting is bound to go the same way – isn’t it ?

TJ – I know it’s a bit OT, but why have you repeated the same quote three times now…?

Genuinely curious.

Have you never taken a shifter to bits?

Yes I have. It can be done, carefully. But electronics and batteries are somewhat different.

we have all taken them to bits but have you rebuilt it 😉

What’s with the rapid rise bashing? It’s brilliant.

Every girl I know that struggles with left and right loves it (and I). It makes changing gears simple, always push up with the thumb to go up and the opposite to go down.

Plus it means I have have my alfine bikes shifting the same as all my other bikes (except the other way around obviously).

Brilliant!

Oh and I was pissing my sides at the constant questions at how much it cost..

Well like it or not electronic is coming to mountain biking and personally i am looking forward to it, i have heard as others may have that eletronic XTR is on the way and maybe within 2012, and i have heard from a source in the know that shimano have already planned electronic XTR, XT, STX and deore within the next seven or eight years, As people have said in this thread shimano generaly do good things and as of yet i havn’t heard of any problem with dura ace or ultegra di2, as for rapid rise it wasn’t a problem with the product as it worked fine the general public just didn’t take to the idea.
As for the battery v’s dynamo WTF you know how heavy those hubs are don’t you and the battery lasts 6-8 months and only takes 2-3 hours to charge and as someone else commented if you ignor the few hudred miles worth of low batt warning well you deserve to be stuck in that huge gear all the way home. ROLL ON XTR DI2.

How long then, before it becomes the norm? Not just fashionable but affordably better than mechanical?

its quite simple, cable brakes where awful, and early discs where an affordable ‘game changer’

modern cable operated transmission is so slick and reliable

Also, i enjoy being out on my bike to get away from the total electronic exposure i get at work & home

I’m open to evolution, but i’ll leave it to the XTR crowd

😀

Thank you aracer. There was also a system called s.a.f.e. (scott Allen fife enterprises I think) that would retro fit to existing shifters and mechs. As I remember, the only failing was that it was way ahead of its time. I’d love someone to reserrect that system.

The idea of electronic shifting? Brilliant.

Having said that, I haven’t had to adjust the cable tension of my X9 setup in months. My Shimano bikes need a little more tweaking, but it’s instinctive and takes a minor twiddle before it’s sorted for another few months. I know electronic shifting will need no adjustment and will sort out the annoying chain rubs in certain gears. I also know that electronic gear shifting will be consistent, day or night and come rain or shine.

But it won’t be night and day like switching from V-brakes to hydraulic discs was. It won’t be the revelation that going fully rigid to a decent oil dampened fork was either. The cost is going to be prohibitive for a while and I daresay that fitting a full outer to your cable shift would be a far more cost effective upgrade.