The NHS…………..again. (P155 boiling content)

After years of, literally, holding the service together and just about exhausting the good will of medics, nurses and allied health professionals, this – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24408681
FFS!! etc.
*applies for firearms licence* 👿 👿 😯

Q hordes of private sector STWers who ‘haven’t had a pay rise in years’.

Liam Fox might have been forced to resign in disgrace, but the agenda hasn’t gone away. The demoralisation of NHS staff is vital to achieve the goals of the Tory right.

My wife is a nurse and I am with you Mr Toxic. Plus after a recent stay in hospital I think they are vastly underpaid.

If I was to take up employment in the NHS I would start on £11/hr. Today I am doing a very similar job and making 4 times that. NHS physiotherapists are greatly underpaid (with the odd exception of those who are hiding in the NHS because they are incompetent and wouldn’t last 5 minutes in the private sector).

The biggest joke is DOH’s claim that this will safeguard jobs and improve patient care. And on BBC6M news, I actually heard some policy thinktank type invoke “recent horror stories” involving the NHS as one justification for the freeze… which suggests that 1.) she has no understanding of the meltdown at Mid-Staffs 2.) she has no concept of how hard the frontline are working just to keep things together.

Hunt – never was there a Health Secretary with a better-rhyming surname. 👿

My wife is a nurse and I am with you Mr Toxic. Plus after a recent stay in hospital I think they are vastly underpaid.

Totally agree. It’s only when people have to use the service that they become aware of the work involved.
They need to be much better paid from starting salary all the way through the grades.

I actually heard some policy thinktank type invoke “recent horror stories” involving the NHS as one justification for the freeze…

Yup, I heard that one two. What a vile little person.

It’s only going to get worse, they’ve come for our pensions, they’e shafting with us the pay rise and Ambulance staff are also losing enhancements when on the sick which was a locked in agreement when we moved to Agenda for Change.

We have more responsibility, work loads are increasing, they’re giving us less funds to our job, they want us to work longer and now they want to not pay us any extra.

They need to kill the stupid targets, the limitations the NHS has on purchasing to stop overpaying for simple items never mind complex equipment.

The government’s view, therefore, remains that basic pay increases should only be implemented if there is strong evidence that recruitment, retention, morale or motivation issues require this,” the department says in its written submission.

Are the right wing now seriously suggesting that money is not a motivating factor in employment [ recruitment, retention and getting good staff] ? I await them saying something similar about banking.

Same old Tories shaft the folk who care and reward the **** in banking and big business with tax cuts and defending their bonus culture.

STW private sector with no pay rise for 3 years here!

However this attack on the NHS sickens me. Funny how on the one hand we need to ensure that the City takes as much from the system as it wants but when it comes to paying nurses and doctors, there just isn’t the spare. This and the previous governments* priorities are just completely screwed. Can’t believe the bunch of evil bastards we’ve got running things.

*Not just a Tory thing. Tony and Gordon seemed to offer the City a reach around whenever it wanted one.

It’s only going to get worse, they’ve come for our pensions, they’e shafting with us the pay rise and Ambulance staff are also losing enhancements when on the sick which was a locked in agreement when we moved to Agenda for Change.

We have more responsibility, work loads are increasing, they’re giving us less funds to our job, they want us to work longer and now they want to not pay us any extra.

are you sure you’re not a teacher, sounds very familiar.

We’re all in it together

Its always the people who cant fight back that they hit the hardest. Absolutely despise politicians. And this lot seem to be worse than the usual shower of monkeys in charge.

I’m trying to understand what is being proposed as it doesn’t appear to be as simple as no cost of living payrise. They seem to be saying they will use the 1% to modernise the pay structure, so it will still get spent. Putting two and two together (and probably getting three) I’m guessing they are looking at scrapping the automatic payrises based on length of service which are paid in addition to cost of living rises. Using the 1% money to buy out / bribe people onto new contracts.

Anyone able to enlighten me without ranting?

Welcome to the real world.

Pay rises aren’t a right. If you can do better elsewhere then go. If recruitment and retention becomes an issue then pay will go up.

Are the right wing now seriously suggesting that money is not a motivating factor

JY it’s generally accepted that pay isn’t a motivator, once a rise is given it rapidly becomes the norm. Pay however can be a massive demotivator.

Its always the people who cant fight back that they hit the hardest

That’s drivel, the highly unionised members of the NHS are actually one of the few groups of workers most able to fight back (doesn’t mean they’ll win though).

Pay rises aren’t a right

I fundamentally disagree with that, cost of living payrises should be a right otherwise you take a pay cut each year. Incremental rises each year in addition for just doing your job on the other hand….

Incremental rises each year in addition for just doing your job on the other hand….

One word: experience.

💡 Quite often this is what saves lives.

I fundamentally disagree with that, cost of living payrises should be a right otherwise you take a pay cut each year. Incremental rises each year in addition for just doing your job on the other hand…

Who’s going to pay for it? Everyone else has taken a pay cut, you want us to pay more tax as well? Leave. If you’re really worth more you’ll find a better paid job.

Is this not the same week ‘we’ suggested that doctors private GP businesses should get a pay bonus for working alternative hours to 9-5?
.
1% is crap, I agree. But I have not had a cost of living pay rise in 7 years now. My last two organisation’s had shrinking budgets all round, in an industry where competitor businesses were closing every month – and creatively we did more with less; we also worked longer hours for no extra pay. It was better than the business going under, and having no job.
I also have not had some of my bins collected for 3 weeks now. I also work with schools that are struggling to put books on shelves and keep the lights on, and rain out. So maybe the classic ‘share the pain and Man Up’ springs to mind.
.
Find another job if pay is that much of an issue.

Pay however can be a massive demotivator.

I knew that as well and i do get the distinction but it is proper hair spliting as someone demotivated is not very well motivated are they.

If you can do better elsewhere then go. If recruitment and retention becomes an issue then pay will go up

Can we apply this to MPs?bankers/CEO’s etc where they remind us we need to pay disgustingly high amounts to retain their talent.
I dont really care which way right wingers use this but they cannot use it one way for the public sector [ except MP’s themselves] and another for bankers where huge wages are essential for “talent”.

As noted above no wage rise is a wage cut.

stumpyjon – Member

I fundamentally disagree with that, cost of living payrises should be a right otherwise you take a pay cut each year.

Yup. And this isn’t even about offering a below the cost of living payrise- in fact, the payrise which they want to withold is already way below the cost of living.

Ok the pay increments aren’t a pay rise they are a contractual agreement for giving years of service same as the extra holiday hours. However, don’t be fooled they are not automatic if you haven’t been doing your job as you’re expected to you won’t get it. At least that’s how it was meant to work but hasn’t been followed to the rule.

Find another job if pay is that much of an issue.

24 years on Wednesday gone I’ve been in, my skill base is set around the job I do. I’m 40 years old there isn’t a job I could go for locally that would pay the same quick enough for it not to effect us massively. Why should people quit their jobs, why not just offer a cost of living. Why use that 1% to modernise our pay agreement that was only modernised 8 years ago?

2% on income tax anybody?
Stricter enforcement of import duty?
Stop buying bike parts from Germany and put your cash into the British economy?

Just a thought…

Well said mr mikewsmith.

The part of this that really annoys me isn’t that I won’t be getting a pay rise in April.

My biggest annoyance is that in independent pay review body decided that we should get a 1% rise but Jeremy *unt deceded to interfere and block it. When an independent pay review body looked into MP’s pay, they recommended an 11% pay rise but as it was an independent panel, they couldn’t interfere with it. You can’t really have it both ways, either you listen to the independent panes or you don’t.

i know many people who have not had a payrise since 2008. pay should be based on the job you do not how long you have done it. that said i think many in the nhs are under paid

My mate who works in Lux tells me its the law to have a cost of living rise based on inflation….so in some countries it is a right.

I don’t agree with payrises just because you’ve worked there a long time, but I do agree with inflation rises.

(I haven’t been getting either…)

jp-t853 – Member

pay should be based on the job you do not how long you have done it.

So you agree that people shouldn’t suffer year-on-year paycuts?

Pay rises aren’t a right. If you can do better elsewhere then go. If recruitment and retention becomes an issue then pay will go up.

hasnt done so in teaching, we are looking for a qualified sci. teacher at my work. If you have a pulse and a tiny amount of ability you will.do.

38 years onSunday gone I’ve been in, my skill base is set around the job I do. I’m more than 50 years old there isn’t a job I could go for locally that would pay the same quick enough for it not to effect us massively. Why should people quit their jobs, why not just offer a cost of living. Why use that 1% to modernise our pay agreement that was only modernised 8 years ago?

The various NHS “failures” highlighted in recent times are the direct result of deliberate understaffing/underpaying, amongst othe things. In other words, this government has seized the opportunity given to it, by the 2008 global banking cockup, for the dismantling of the/your/our NHS – discuss.

*goes into back garden for cross-bow target practice*

Welcome to the real world.

Pay rises aren’t a right. If you can do better elsewhere then go. If recruitment and retention becomes an issue then pay will go up.

So you are proposing that we should wait for all the experienced doctors and nurses (and other professions) to leave and then increase wages to recruit new inexperienced health staff.

I’m not really keen on that idea.

Welcome to the real world.

I wonder how working for the NHS is not in the real world?

Now I know right wing spiteful mean little men such as yourself couldn’t give a monkey’s if the NHS disappears, but without it, we’d all be screwed.

Worth paying a lot more for.

opportunity given to it, by the 2008 global banking cockup, for the dismantling of the/your/our NHS – discuss.

Right-wingers and the greedy little hordes of capitalists love nothing better than a crisis.

I’m in the NHS and have been for 20 years.

The pressures we are facing on the frontline are quite frankly unbelievable.

I will don my uniform tonight knowing that at each job I could be assaulted, or run the risk of complaint for my actions. I drive at speed to attend the incidents that I am sent to…most of which are nonsense.I work alone.

A friend of mine has served a prison sentence for being associated with this uniform…a good man now wrecked.

I know of another two good men going through the same allegations.

A friend of mine is struggling with the job after attending a nasty incident involving two young girls in an RTC, then on the next shift a double fatality. I know of people having nervous breakdowns.
I have personally talked two of my colleagues out of committing suicide…one with a rope around his neck.

We work alone and stand alone….

Is 1% really too much to ask for ?

I hear you.

Job has got allot crappier.
Patients get shorter appointments, with more junior staff, all numbers rather than quality driven. Incidents of bullying have increased. Goodwill is heavily relied on + staff do lots extra because they care, burning themselves out in the process. Litigation is a constant threat hanging over you whilst you are forced into more + more extended roles. I’ve not seem morale this low for 20 years.

If you take into account increased pension contributions for a worse pension, contracts being redrawn so that we can be expected to work anywhere in 3 (Big rural) counties with no travel costs e.t.c. covered, we’ve effectively had a significant pay cut.

I knew that as well and i do get the distinction but it is proper hair spliting as someone demotivated is not very well motivated are they.

It’s not hair splitting it’s really important. If you want to improve moral in the NHS payrises won’t do it, giving people a sense of worth will.

Who’s going to pay for it? Everyone else has taken a pay cut, you want us to pay more tax as well? Leave. If you’re really worth more you’ll find a better paid job.

That made me laugh, I don’t work in the NHS, been in the private sector (manufacturing) all my life. I personally don’t have much time for the NHS and the service it provides based upon personal experience. The only good experiences I’ve had recently was with my GP surgery (who are a private business as all GP’s) are and an operation my son had which was subbed out to a private hospital by the NHS. I won’t catalogue all the examples of poor and incompetant care I’ve expereinced.

Still despite my no doubt swivel eyed right wing credentials I still think the annual cost of living rises should be a given. Like any organisation it should be paid for in the same way any other cost increases are paid for, efficiency savings, focusing on the core business.

One word: experience.

Quite often this is what saves lives.

That’s a stupid comment, if you aren’t capable of doing the job (especially in a medical setting) you shouldn’t be doing the job unsupervised. Are you saying that if a less experienced person in role X cocks up it’s OK because they haven’t been paid as much as the more experienced person who would have got it right.

I fully understand and empathise with the argument that people are seeing their pay and conditions they originally signed up for being degraded, the real question is whether the original terms were reasonable or affordable. I’d still rather both politicians and the unions would concentrate more on the poor working practices (management and frontline) and poor service levels in the NHS and less on the pay.

pay rises based on length of service are simply wrong.. if i m doing my job well and so is bill why should he get more than me simply because hes done the role longer..

if 40% of the NHS is wages/salary then it has to be an area that is investigated for fairness.. does someone on 100k pa need another 20 quid a week or would you rather 5 folk on 20k shared that 20 quid a week instead..

how many medical staff work until state retirement age? not many i d guess with many taking thier nhs pension well before 65..

Welcome to the real world

Riiiiiight, because people who work in acute care have literally no idea about the “real world”.

You joker.