The Godfather… Dilema

Happy to have flexible morals in this instance, no god to judge me, didn't hurt anyone 🙂

Where have I been dishonest?

I'm not sure whether that's aimed at me or not, but during the ceremony did you partake in vows along the lines of these (quickly Googled, but illustrate the point):

Do you reject the devil and all rebellion against God?
Parents & godparents : I reject them.

Do you renounce the deceit and corruption of evil?
Parents & godparents : I renounce them.

Do you repent of the sins that separate us from God and neighbour?
Parents & godparents : I repent of them.

Do you turn to Christ as Saviour?
Parents & godparents : I turn to Christ.

Do you submit to Christ as Lord?
Parents & godparents : I submit to Christ.

Do you come to Christ the way, the truth, and the life?
Parents & godparents : I come to Christ.

If so, did you mean what you said?

Wiki

Christianity

Traditionally, godparents were informally responsible for ensuring the child's religious education was carried out, and for caring for the child should they be orphaned. Today, the word godparent might not have explicitly religious overtones. The modern view of a godparent tends to be an individual chosen by the parents to take an interest in the child's upbringing and personal development.[1]

sorry junkyard, tiger et al, maybe my friends are of the more modern idea? I hope this doesnt offend either you, your fellow believers or 'him upstairs'

in the french part of switzerland at least, this take on 'godparenting' is very common.

I said it, didn't mean it, see Donks post. I'm a WGAS, whats the comeback, god doesn't exist.

You're clearly a 5, and they are as worrying to me as the number ones.

No, IHN, I don't think I did as it happens as I said earlier but even if I had, I still don't think that playing along with a ceremony makes you a liar. That'll be the pragmatist in me but I can accept that some more idealistic sorts disagree but still struggle to see why it really matters.

If I was standing up in court and told lies that'd be different. If I told my friends that I'd look after their kids but actually wouldn't, that'd matter. Saying some words that in the exact meaning of them have no consequence that the people around me know are just that doesn't matter to me.

Exactly why is a view held and supported by cogent argument, deemed to be "rabid", I wonder?

sorry junkyard, tiger et al, maybe my friends are of the more modern idea?

Not sure that Wikipedia are representing the Church's opinion there. I would be interested to hear a conversation between a vicar and an atheist would be Godparent.

BTW, I don't fit any of Donk's slots – I think that people should be true to what they believe and see this as strength of character. Hard to to be strong though.

Saying some words of no consequence that the people around me know are just that doesn't matter to me.

This begs the question: Why are any of you doing this, at all?

You're clearly a 5, and they are as worrying to me as the number ones.

to be fair not many 5's have recently been implicated in covering up international child sex scandals – or atleast not for their religeous views. But then again how many 1's were actually involved? Maybe they're just 2-4s who found a nice cushy job at a large multinational company with plenty of opportunitys and a "job for life (and after life)"
🙂

Exactly why is a view held and supported by cogent argument, deemed to be "rabid", I wonder?

I meant enthusiastic woppit, rampant and rabid were just off the top of my head didn't mean to diss either party.

Because as I said, it's effectively a welcoming ceremony for the kids. My friends are Christian and so it took the form of a christening. They're not so blinkered as to insist that all their friends are Christians so were perfectly happy to take a pragmatic/realistic view of it all and involve the people that matter to them.

Of course, by the sounds of it, you'd prefer that they took on the ultra orthodox type view and refused to involve anyone who doesn't share their beliefs which frankly I find suprising.

I would be interested to hear a conversation between a vicar and an atheist would be Godparent.

er… it went along the lines of

'That went well didn't it'
'Yes, great atmosphere'

Nothing very thrilling I'm afraid.

That'll be the pragmatist in me but I can accept that some more idealistic sorts disagree but still struggle to see why it really matters.

It doesn't, really, I suppose. I just got initially annoyed by the tone (not necessarily yours) of the thread which seemed to be "just do it, otherwise you're a bad friend", when it's entirely possible to have a principled objection. And if the people asking you were true friends, they would understand if you declined politely.

Anyway, this has been an interesting, and rarely for STW, pretty well balanced debate that has killed my afternoon time nicely 🙂 Thanks all, I'm going home.

tbh i couldnt give a flying about all this, the thing that gets me is this:

Well yes that too, although in reality I would be way down the pecking order, although if something did happen to them that wouldn't be something I would have a problem with…

and to junkyard, when i said think about it, i meant to have a little bloody think about whether you want to be even more linked to your sister if thats how you feel about them.

jesus, oops.

They're not so blinkered as to insist that all their friends are Christians so were perfectly happy to take a pragmatic/realistic view of it all and involve the people that matter to them.

As Godparents promising to support the Christian upbringing of the child? I do find that odd – very unlike Christians I know.

FWIW, I'd consider myself a bad friend if I'd said no but that's not really aimed at casting aspersions at you or anyone else. I would just feel that it was unreasonable. I guess I might feel different if I had been expected to stand up at the front and praise the lord and specifically promise to indoctrinate educate the kids in the way of the church and so on but I wasn't so I didn't.

"just do it, otherwise you're a bad friend", possibly aimed at me too, that's the way I felt when I was asked. My friends are more important to me and it seemed more natural to accept than refuse, upholding a principle that I, at most other points in my life, give very little thought to.

Scotia you lost me with your mini rant. I have no sister but my family know me well enough not to ask. Not sure whether that make my family or your family closer you decide. Really why have you got so upset about this ?
[Bill Hicks]Forgive me [/Bill Hicks] 😆
Clubbers POV is perfectly reasonable and he argues it well. I disagree but we dont need to get angry do we?

sorry junkyard, tiger et al, maybe my friends are of the more modern idea

Nah if they were modern they would have a humanistic naming ceremony like me 😆

scotia – Member
tbh i couldnt give a flying about all this, the thing that gets me is this:

Well yes that too, although in reality I would be way down the pecking order, although if something did happen to them that wouldn't be something I would have a problem with…
and to junkyard, when i said think about it, i meant to have a little bloody think about whether you want to be even more linked to your sister if thats how you feel about them.

You still don't get that?

He meant he wouldn't have a problem looking after the kids if something happened to them, not he wouldn't have a problem with something happening to them!!

(sorry, this has already died, hasn't it 😳 )

I'm a multiple godfather and in no way religious in any proper sense – when people talk about religious values (or more speifically Christian ones) I interpret "god" or christianity as my internal set of moral values. As such I have no issue with suggesting that I'll instruct a child accordingly. I have no bother renouncing evil either.

I don't see this aproach as different to Christians ignoring some of the weirder rules in the bible & saying it can be read in a modern interpretation – I'm just more modern again in my interpretation.

Mind, I wouldn't accept the job for a properly religious family without ensuring that they understood my perspective.

Is it that much different to being sent on a course or sitting in meetings and sucking up all the bullshit, then mentally filing it in the shite folder – or should we all refuse to attend on the grounds that we'd be hypocrites to do so ?