[Closed] The Godfather... Dilema

I have no problem with what is meant to be the real point of being a godfather, moral support, extra present on birthdays etc... (isn't that what its about)

I thought it was about caring for the kids if anything happened to the parents ?

I thought it was about caring for the kids if anything happened to the parents?

Well yes that too, although in reality I would be way down the pecking order, although if something did happen to them that wouldn't be something I would have a problem with...

If she wants you to do the church thing then why not? Unless you find it particularly offensive Is she religious?

Having said that I was a Godlessparent for my friends kids - they had godparents to look after the religious side of things but if the parents had died I would have taken the kids

I turned down being one for the same reason as above. Yes I could have done it in the same way as I could have turned up at Church in drag in a mini skirt but why on earth would I want to do wither of these things?
Best bet here who will be most annoyed you for the church issue sister for your refusal most upset wins and gets their way HTH

Hmm hadn't thought of doing it in a miniskirt... maybe that is the middle way?

Thing that gets me is that she seems to have recently discovered god, coinciding with realising she needs to get her kids to a nice school. Not that I would ever dare mention that...

I was amused by the fact that some American churches banned Harry Potter due to its religion-freeness, yet [b]god[/b]parents ARE included :o)

My wife and I were both antireligious but our kids have effective godparents, though I don't think we used that term ...

If a mate asked you to be his best man, and he was getting married in a church would you turn him down?

Put aside the religious stuff you don't believe in, and look on it as a contract between yourself, your sister and the child- maybe find out directly from your sister what she expects, forget about the exact words spoken in the ceremony, and focus on what [b]your sister[/b] wants from you. The venue and christening are irrelevant.

If you don't believe in it, wtf does it matter?

MTFU, accept it as the gesture it was intended as and get on with it.

I'm not religious, but I'm godfather to both my neices, and it was fantastic to be asked.

As a godparent you will be expected (and will promise to) help bring up the child as a christian.

If, like me, you are an atheist, I can't really see how you could do that with any credibility.

So - my reaction would be "Thankyou. I'm flattered, but I don't subscribe to the necessary superstition. No offense."

Just my two penn'orth...

Should I just MTFU and cross my fingers and do the church thing

Yes - it's not about you.

I'm a godfather despite frankly having very negative views on organised religion. I don't recall having to say much, if anything, about renouncing the devil or anything else but frankly if I did I just said/mumbled it along with the other godparents. Since I couldn't care less about religion, I've got no issue really saying some mumbo jumbo that means nothing to me but my friends believe in.

vinnyeh +1
My cousin asked me to be a godfather to her second son. Something i was very honoured to be asked, also went to the christening, which i felt rather hypocritical about as im in no way religious. BUT, i still went ahead and did it, because she wanted me to do it.

My understanding of godparents is of people who will step in when the real parents are unavailable due to death or kidnap etc ie much more important than mere religion and a serious undertaking.

If a mate asked you to be his best man, and he was getting married in a church would you turn him down?

The difference is you are not expected to say anything that you dont beleive in as a best man, or indeed as a bride or groom at a church wedding.

Bazzer

sfb - I don't think that really applies these days at least not normally.

you are not expected to say anything that you dont beleive in as a best man

Will it really kill you? I do wonder about people whose conscience is so precious to them on insignificant matters that they'd make such a point of it.

When my best mate had his little'un and the subject of christenings was mentioned my heart sank.
I really didn't want to be asked.
Luckily my mate knew me well enough to tell his wife that I'd be a great "uncle" (why is it always uncle?)taking him to play,bike rides,birthday pressies and I'd look out for him if anything happened to his mum and dad, but that I'd not want all the ceremony and religious hoohar.
So his brother in laws got the task instead....poor kid!!

sfb - I don't think that really applies these days at least not normally.

otherwise there'd be no point 🙁

I do wonder about people whose conscience is so precious to them on insignificant matters that they'd make such a point of it.

not that anyone would ever ask me but I wouldn't say any words I didn't mean in that context. It might be precious to you but it's up to me to decide.

Tell her you will do it if she prefers a religious ceremony and that you are honoured that she would ask, but you would prefer if you could do it in a non-religious manner (ie legal guardianship).

The venue and christening are irrelevant.

You are not overly familiar with the word CHRISTening then are you? Clearly it is a religious act clearly it has a touch of a religous connortation about it [or it would just be a humanist non secular naming ceremony] and it is catholic’s who renounce the devil FWIW.

I do wonder about people whose conscience is so precious to them on insignificant matters that they'd make such a point of it.

Are you referring to the christian or the atheist here ? I can't tell. Why do you dislike people who have principles and stand by them? Why do you think the question of whether we have a diety is insignificant?

+ what SFB said

insignificant matters

Not to me..

Why do you dislike people who have principles and stand by them?

If you're christian then I don't suppose you'd have a problem. If you're an atheist then I can't see how saying some words that you believe have no meaning could possibly matter or have any consequence, unless of course the parents are devout christians and expect you to say the words and believe in them in which case I'd be suprised that they'd be asking someone that they knew so little about.

I was asked, my friends know I don't believe in any of the church stuff (to say the least) but they still wanted me as godfather because it's about much more than the religion for them and most people I reckon)

SFB - yes it's up to you to decide and the decision you say you'd make makes me wonder about you though really it doesn't suprise me.

That is not what I said M-f. Both sides have principles [atheists and Christians*] though the mother may be a plastic christian for the benefit of her child.

* would a christian denounce god for an atheist/humanist naming ceremony would we ask?

EDIT: Clubber yes anyone [including a Christian] could publicly stand up and spout some nonsense they did not believe in and was contrary to their view the issue here is should you have to do this .

The Godfather thing is actually you promising to bring the child up in the ways of the faith into which the child is baptised. If you are not of that faith then really you are basically lying to your sister, the kids and to the Church in question.

However, I was asked to do it for my Best mans kids. The local vicar rejected me without even meeting me on the basis that I'd not been baptised or christened. (No actual specific requirement that I should be incidentally). Strangely, I am one of the few people who would have beecome God parents in his church who actually would have been aware of the role and the requirements prior to the service.

In essence its a load of old guff, brought about by the fact that the christening service requires some people in those roles. Generally, the individual asking is confering a great deal by asking, so frankly I'd just go along with it, and smile nicely if I were you.

I'd be concerned that a humanist naming ceremony that asked you to denounce god was part of an atheist cult that'd shortly be offering around the kool-aid... 😯

The Godfather thing is actually you promising to bring the child up in the ways of the faith into which the child is baptised. If you are not of that faith then really you are basically lying to your sister, the kids and to the Church in question.

Of course it is. And everyone who gets their kid christened really lives by that don't they. Just like non-Christians don't celebrate Xmas (yes, I know there are some miserable sods who don't). More of it is cultural than religeous.

That is not what I said M-f. Both sides have principles [atheists and Christians*] though the mother may be a plastic christian for the benefit of her child.

* would a christian denounce god for an atheist/humanist naming ceremony would we ask?

but not concerned that a christian one was a cult and about to offer you the symbolic flesh of the dead son of god and then drink his blood?
You can denounce god without being considered a cult surely?

M-F no probs

A humanist ceremony isn't an aetheist one. there isn't such thing as an aetheist one or at least by definition, there shouldn't be for the simple reason that aetheism is about not believing something. Call it freedom or freethinking or whatever you like but the whole point is that there isn't a set of rules forced upon you.

Act in accordance with your principles and beliefs. I don't see how you can justify taking an active part in a religious ceremony if you don't believe in it. If you "just don't do religion" then just don't lie by pretending you do.

I'm a godfather to about 6 kids now, all the parents who asked me know I have no religious beliefs. They asked me as they know as a person what my morals are and it's that they're interested in not what some fairy story tells us.

I recall only one of the services was actually even close to be religious they rest talked about morals and the likes but religion was never mentioned. Consider it an honour.

I don't pretend or lie. My friends know I'm not religeous at all. I went to a naming ceremony that was Christian. I may well have said some words that in themselves meant nothing to me but still had exactly the meaning that was intended by my friends.

I just can't see the issue. I haven't betrayed anyone, said anything I'm uncomfortable with or caused any offense. Some people really just like to take themselves far too seriously.

[i]and she has kindly asked me to be the godfather, which is quite kind of her as we don't normally get on all that well... well normal sibling rivalry I guess.. nothing serious.[/i]

Your sister's made a pretty cool gesture, no? Turn it down, you look like a selfish ****. MTFU for the half an hour it's going to take, and when the daughter turns 18, take her on a bender she'll never forget, OK? Like any self respecting god parent should do...Mine did, bless her.

and when the daughter turns 18, take her on a bender she'll never forget, OK?

I had not realised the responsibility included an introduction to the drug culture 🙁

Suspect that any 18 year old will have had an introduction some years before SFB.

When I was asked I said no. Not because I dont believe in christ, not because I am offended by the way the church imposes their views on others (although both true) but because I take a promise seriously, and I dont want any responsibility for kids. If I did i'd have had my own.

If you are a proper atheist, doing the church thing is just a meaningless ritual which should be no bother unless you are asked to guide the child along particular religious lines.

I had the same sort of dilemma when my sister asked me to be god father. I spoke to her to check that she was okay with the fact that I'm atheist and she was fine. The Priest who will be doing the ceremony only stipulates that one of the god parents need be a regular church goer. Had it been a requirement for me to demonstrate that I was a regular church goer then that is something that I wouldn't have lied about and would have declined but it's not an issue in this case.

doing the church thing is just a meaningless ritual which should be no bother

so you might as well say your prayers and go to Lourdes as well just in case ??

Get your sister to ask the priest what to do. If she tells him you can't say things you don't believe in, (and your situation will not shock him) he might have an acceptable alternative.

sweepy - Member
When I was asked I said no. Not because I dont believe in christ, not because I am offended by the way the church imposes their views on others (although both true).

thats sort of where I'm coming from Sweepy. But I didn't say no, I said in a jokey way (had a few wines at that point.. ) that of course I wouldn't be able to do the religious bit. I've set the ground for me being able to back out. I guess my point of view is more than being an atheist, I really don't like religion one bit, and I dn't hide these view, so by taking part I will be somehow condoning it.

I think big John is right,

Get your sister to ask the priest what to do. If she tells him you can't say things you don't believe in, (and your situation will not shock him) he might have an acceptable alternative.

Problem is the longer I put off talking to her about it the harder it will be if I say no...

Haha I was thinking you guys might help me make my mind up, seems I've made it even more confusing for myself!

Big John is always right. But don't ask the vicar if you can swear on me. 😈

Well yes that too, although in reality I would be way down the pecking order, although if something did happen to them that wouldn't be something I would have a problem with...

do you mean what i think you mean?

nice

Well yes that too, although in reality I would be way down the pecking order, although if something did happen to them that wouldn't be something I would have a problem with...

do you mean what i think you mean?

ROFL just saw what I said, Or the freudian stuff anyhow..... I think you know what I actually meant 😉

Well i wouldnt want you as a brother let alone ask you to be the godfather of my children.

Im a godfather to the child of one of our best friends, and i never even thought about the religious side of it. Before you accept it maybe have a think..

Just to clarify the title - you do understand that being A godfather doesn't make you THE Godfather, right? "you come here and ask me for a piece of wedding cake, on my daughter's wedding day" and all that...

As I was never christened & don't do the religon thing, I'm a "sponsor" to my sister in laws daughter.

I don't understand why those that don't go to church have their children baptised and I don't understand why anyone would ask a non-Christian to be a God-parent and I don't understand why a non-Christian would want to be one.

I say this as a non-Christian who has had a lot to do with Christians and church over the years. Maybe I find it more significant an event than non-Christians who see it as one of those things that you do like getting married and having birthdays? Also, maybe a lot of non-Church goers kinda think they believe in God?

I don't understand why anyone would ask a non-Christian to be a God-parent and I don't understand why a non-Christian would want to be one.

For the same reasons that most non-Christians still celebrate Xmas - it's about much more than what it originally was/is supposedly meant to be.

My friends asked me to do it because we're very good friends and it's a nice thing to involve friends in your family. I don't take any issue with it because it's nothing more than a nice thing to do (I'm not expected to look after the kids should anything happen to the parents - their aunt/uncle would do that) and to kick up a fuss would have been stupid and petty, frankly. If they'd asked on the basis of taking the kids in should the worst happen, I'd have been fine with that actually. I wouldn't have agreed in the unlikely event that there had been a requirement to bring them up through the church system because that would be silly considering my own position.

I don't understand why anyone would ask a non-Christian to be a God-parent and I don't understand why a non-Christian would want to be one.

Cant you get over yourself and think a little outside of the box? Take what Clubber has said and think it over maybe..

As a non-Christian I could not say what I am supposed to say at a baptism as a parent or God father. Other people aren't so conscientious and that's there problem but doesn't mean I get why.

So don't say it (ok, this won't work if you're the only god parent) - or at least not the prayer bit. In fact, thinking about it, that might be what I did. I don't ever do the prayer bit if I'm in church - just sit up and keep quiet. Though really, if I had do I wouldn't have much of an issue. It's just words and the great bit about being non-religious is that I only have to justify my conscience to myself...

If you're asked by a non-Christian to be a God parent then I suppose it doesn't matter as it's all a sham anyway. I suppose the thing is atheists would want to stick to what they believe and refuse to go along with this sort of thing whilst agnostics - are most of us agnostic to some degree? - might be happy to join in.

scotia you have an odd attitude always telling people to think etc

Im a godfather to the child of one of our best friends, and i never even thought about the religious side of it. Before you accept it maybe have a think..

the thing is atheists would want to stick to what they believe and refuse to go along with this sort of thing

No. You're wrong. Atheists can do what they want. There are no rules. If they chose to go to church every week and play along despite not believing a word of it because they enjoyed it then that'd be fine.

Of course, just as there are religious fanatics, there are atheist fanatics who like to tell you how you have to behave. They're arguably even worse than religious ones.

If you're asked by a non-Christian to be a God parent then I suppose it doesn't matter as it's all a sham anyway. I suppose the thing is atheists would want to stick to what they believe and refuse to go along with this sort of thing whilst agnostics - are most of us agnostic to some degree? - might be happy to join in.

Without adding too much fuel to the fire Dawkins calls himself an agnostic. Mainly because you cannot prove a negative (i.e. you cannot prove that something does [b]not [/b]exist, only that it does). Like me he's agnostic about the christian gods the same way that he's agnostic about Zeus etc.

I was asked to be a godparent and responded that as long as the kiddie was within reach (they've now moved to the other side of the country) then I would teach it about all religions and none so it had a broad view of belief and bollox to the church rubbish. When it grew up it could decide for itself. I went through with the ceremony but crossed my fingers when it got to the god rubbish. 😀

What really got me though was that the parents were simply getting the child christened because the families would like it and it was 'the done thing'. They were atheist themselves but had to have the big church wedding and all the bells and whistles. If I were a christian I'd find that quite demeaning.

Saying that, they have wound me up recently (christians, that is). Just come back from Keswick on holiday and the place was crawling with them (some sort of conference). Kumbya morning, noon and night!

No. You're wrong. Atheists can do what they want

They can do what they want but they aren't being true to themselves which in turn could/should lead others to doubt their integrity IMO.

Junkyard - Member
scotia you have an odd attitude always telling people to think etc
Im a godfather to the child of one of our best friends, and i never even thought about the religious side of it. Before you accept it maybe have a think..

Perhaps as it was you who failed to think about the religious side of being a GODparent perhaps it is you who needs to go and have a think?

Junkyard...what i mean was that i never let the fact that i am not religious cloud my judgment on whether or not i'd accept to be his godfather. The friends in question dont have any request that i do anything in the way of teaching religion so i dont think it needs to be even brought up. I believe that you are stuck a bit with a name..

maybe my attitude in telling people to think is a bit strange, but often on here alot is said without thinking..

Sorry but no. I can say and do whatever I want since I don't have to justify it to a higher power and certainly not your or anyone else's views. If I choose to go along with a religeous ceremony then I can do that. I'm being true to myself. I know what I believe, my friends do and I'm not making a big song and dance about something inconsequential. That's exactly who I am and so I'm being completely true to myself. Maybe you like to make a big fuss about your atheist 'beliefs' so that's what you have to do to be true to yourself I guess. Seems silly to me but then if were all forced to agree we'd call that a religion 😉

Maybe I'm assuming someone who states that they are an atheist wants to be perceived as such and not just an agnostic. BTW, I am agnostic and don't want people to think I am something I am not - that's integrity to me.

I've been asked by both friends and family to be a godparent, and in each case I've been incredibly flattered, but declined. I think that to make solemn vows about bringing up the child in the ways of the church, vows that I have no intention of keeping, in front of people who believe those vows to be important, is at the very least incredibly disrespectful.

Interestingly, those that asked me that actually knew why they were getting their child christened understood and accepted why I declined. And I'm still a part of their children's lives, and in some cases will be their guardian should the worst happen.

[i]What really got me though was that the parents were simply getting the child christened because the families would like it and it was 'the done thing'. They were atheist themselves but had to have the big church wedding and all the bells and whistles. If I were a christian I'd find that quite demeaning.[/i]

Exactly

[i]I don't understand why those that don't go to church have their children baptised and I don't understand why anyone would ask a non-Christian to be a God-parent and I don't understand why a non-Christian would want to be one.[/i]

Agree with that. Have turned down offer to be a godparent (I think it was my brother's kid) for that reason. And I can't stand being in bloody churches, so why should I go through one of those bullsht ceremonies? Yeah, maybe I should "get over myself", whatever that means.

Sorry but no. I can say and do whatever I want since I don't have to justify it to a higher power

I've been asked by both friends and family to be a godparent, and in each case I've been incredibly flattered, but declined, for exactly that reason.

Thats very good, well done you win a prize.

My case is exactly the same as clubbers above - have i been bad in the eyes of the lord?

Including standing in the house of the deity you don’t believe and telling it and its followers that you will bring a child up in their ways...yes you can openly lie if you choose too. Why would you ? Why would your friends want you too?

Technically, I don't think I did actually say the words but even if I had since pretty much everyone there knew me well and knew full well that I was a hethen who'd been to church about three times before (the parents' wedding being one of them where I was best man) I just don't have an issue with it. Lying, yes I guess technically but the great thing about not being tied into a religion is that I can define for myself what I think is reasonable. You may or may not agree but clearly plenty do and as such I don't think I'm way off centre on this.

I didn't think it was nice or reasonable to say no to being godparent to my close friends who were keen for their close friends to be godparents since the act of going to church just isn't a problem for me as a one off and especially since for most of us there I reckon, the religion was largely incidental - it was about welcoming the kids into the world.

[i]My case is exactly the same as clubbers above - have i been bad in the eyes of the lord?[/i]

I think your missing my point. I don't believe there is a lord, but there are plenty of people that do, and they are quite entitled to that opinion. I'm talking about not being disrespectful to their beliefs and not being hypocritical regarding my own. And, as someone has said, basically not lying.

[i] since for most of us there I reckon, the religion was largely incidental - it was about welcoming the kids into the world.[/i]

And there's no other way of doing that than a sham-religious ceremony?

Probably so but that's not what the parents wanted. Clearly those of us there were able to put our friends first since we didn't have any major issues with it. I guess maybe we should have heeded our consciences and insisted that the parents do what suited us better.

[i]Probably so but that's not what the parents wanted. Clearly those of us there were able to put our friends first since we didn't have any major issues with it. I guess maybe we should have heeded our consciences and insisted that the parents do what suited us better. [/i]

I never suggested that you should. I just don't understand why you'd actually take an active part in a ceremony for a religion of which you are not a member, indeed one you actively believe is nonsense.

I think a lot of this comes down to people thinking that Christianity is their de facto religion because they are (generally) white and British, even though they do not actually have 'faith'. So they get married in churches, have their children christened etc because that's what you do, rather because that's what they believe.

No doubt that's a part of it for many.

I've explained. I took part because my friends wanted me to and I had no issue doing it. It was a really nice day as it happens.

I have not read the whole thread but another aspect is if like me you are not baptised / christened you cannot be a godparent.

As I said earlier I am a [i]godless[/i] parent to several children in that if anything happened to the parents I would take the kids. they also had official godparents who were at the christening but would not have been in a position to take the kids.

You're wrong TJ - I am 😉 maybe I'm not supposed to be.

I can't actually believe that many agnostic people are so petty and small minded that they refuse their friends requests. My father did the same to his sister years ago, he's a big Dawkins fan, an extremist agnostic I like to call him.

My wife and I are godparents and agnostic, we had no problem in going to the church and going through the ritual to please our friends, there is no comeback, their god isn't going to strike me down (I dont think ;-)) and its a nice day spent among friends in a nice building.

your [s]lack of principles[/s] flexible morals makes you an ideal candidate for any parental role 😉

I'm an Atheist. I will not tell lies about my opinions and cheapen them by being a hypocrite. I would expect the hypothetical friends in this scenario to respect my honesty.

They might also need to think about what the child would get from me in the future once it starts asking questions about it's parent's preferred superstition...

Edit: although obviously, if they are of the "we're just doing this so we can get the kid into a "CofE school"-type, then no doubt that wouldn't be a concern, but that's not enough to encourage me to hypocratise.

The only circumstances in which I'd say something like "I believe in god" would be if I was in immediate danger of torture and death if I didn't.

[i]I can't actually believe that many agnostic people are so petty and small minded[/i]

Go on, I'll bite. I don't think that having respect for the religious beliefs of others, and a desire to not be a hypocrite, is particularly petty.

[i]we had no problem in going to the church and going through the ritual to please our friends[/i]

If your friends were truly Christian, and were having their child(ren) baptised to bring them into that faith, why did they ask you if they knew you did not share that faith? That goes back to my "do people actually think about why they're baptising their child' point"

[i]its a nice day spent among friends in a nice building[/i]

And that's absolutely the reason why one should choose to have one's children baptised.

do find it odd how many non believers view honesty as petty.

Where have I been dishonest?

There are non-religious alternatives right? Like marrying in a stately home or registry office? Not so common I guess but still.

BTW, the God(less) parent thing is a bit odd to me in terms of taking care of the kid if the parents die - you can have just the same sort of thing without all that ceremony malarkey and indeed I'm not aware of any legal status associated with it.

Ooh some people getting worked up about this, I guess it's not black and white but many shades of grey, summarised thusly

1. Rampantly religious types
2. think religion is fairly benign and like to think their chosen deity exists
3. "WGAS?"
4. Don't like the sound of that much
5. Rabidly atheist

Anyone in 2-4 are the ones saying don't worry about it turn up and do your thing, the 1s and 5s who take it all very seriously (nothing wrong with that) and say no don't do it.

for reference I'd say I'm a 2 but I seem to be heading down that list.