The F1 Thread…

the problem with the Goodwood Revival is it doesn’t really capture that “carry on racing while your fellow competitor burns to death in his crashed car” atmosphere.

Sorry about the meh line, it’s just that I cannot summon up any interest at all in it any more, the drivers I used to admire seem to be coming to the end of their careers (Button, Massa, Raiikkonen) the others (esp. LH) irritate me with their attitude. I’d rather spend the time and energy on something else now.

I can see that others enjoy it, that’s great for them, it is just that, with a small tinge of regret, it’s not for me anymore

If you want to see real racing, attend an Historic meet, such as a VSCC

Done that and while it’s great as a one off, I find that I just don’t really care about the results of the races enough to find it exciting/interesting longer term.

Done that and while it’s great as a one off, I find that I just don’t really care about the results of the races enough to find it exciting/interesting longer term.

Ah, you see for me, the fact that you can get up close to the machines, chat to the drivers, see them race hard and then go back and discuss the good/bad outcomes face to face makes it so much more involving as an experience. With a very few exceptions, they are enthusiasts as well and are very willing to talk. Also, for me it has always been as much about the engineering as the racing.
To me now, this:
http://youtu.be/Bj14h2OrLHY
Is much more interesting than this:
http://youtu.be/toksAc0jw-k

The first taken from 3 feet away, the second with a very long lens

Look how dull this season is, 14 races won by Mercedes and the other 3 by Red-Bull. Jesus what a yawn fest. Even in the Vettel years there was more variety of winners than now. You have to go back over 10 years to find such a dominance over a whole season. The new engine rules have spun everything so much towards Mercedes power, that anyone not using their engines with the exception of Red Bull may as well pull out and forget turning up.

I’m not sure that the number of winners defines good racing though. For me, there have been some brilliant races this year and good racing for the podium for the non-Mercs.

Senna/Prost is considered a classic season and one mishap aside, would have had only two winners.

To me now, this:
http://youtu.be/Bj14h2OrLHY
Is much more interesting than this:
http://youtu.be/toksAc0jw-k

The first taken from 3 feet away, the second with a very long lens

You’ll be able to get up close to the current Merc F1 car in around 20 years time when it’s racing in a classic F1 series!

You’ll be able to get up close to the current Merc F1 car in around 20 years time when it’s racing in a classic F1 series!

Actually you can already, but somehow to me it doesn’t have the same atmosphere, don’t know why.

Does not compute. How much “real racing” was there 5 or more years ago? Personally I’d stopped watching F1 due to the lack of interesting racing, but have started watching again over the same sort of timescale.

Over 10? Look at this thrill fest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Formula_One_season

While I accept 2004 was dull it at least had 6 individual winners of GPs, so far this season we’ve had 3!!

Maybe people with rose tinted glasses do think 1989 was great, but I never did, I completely gave up watching around that time as it was a dull fest.

For me ultimately an exciting season has a variety of winners and you don’t know who will win when you turn on the TV. Sure more passing lower down keeps things interesting during the race, but I don’t think many people turn on to see a great overtake to move from position 10th to 9th.

Don’t get me wrong – I think 2010 was the most amazing season where we had 5 drivers in it until near the end and even then we didn’t know who’d come out on top but variety in winners isn’t the only criteria for a good season, for me at least.

2008 season, 7 drivers won races, 6 different pole setters, 6 fastest lap setters, 6 different constructors won races
2009 season, 6 different drivers won races, 8 different pole setters, 10 different fastest lap setters, four constructors won races
So far, 2014 season, 3 drivers have won races, 3 different pole setters, 7 different fastest laps, two constructors won races

2008 season, 7 drivers won races, 6 different pole setters, 6 fastest lap setters, 6 different constructors won races
2009 season, 6 different drivers won races, 8 different pole setters, 10 different fastest lap setters, four constructors won races
So far, 2014 season, 3 drivers have won races, 3 different pole setters, 7 different fastest laps, two constructors won races

I’m not saying this year is perfect. Hopefully as the tec’ beds in the teams will be more balanced

But your stats don’t show that once the race had started the order could remain fairly static

Sort of makes my point

Linkyy

The highlight of this year has been Ricciardo making Vettel look very ordinary.

I’m not sure I’d call that THE highlight but it’s certainly brought Alonso’s comments about Vettel into sharp focus.

http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsport/story/140447.html

“Time will tell us, but I think when he will have a car like the others, if he wins he will have a great recognition and he will be one of the legends of Formula One,” Alonso told the BBC.

“When one day he has the car like the others and he is fourth, fifth or seventh then these four titles will be bad news for him because people will take these four days even in a worse manner than what they are doing now. So there are interesting times for Sebastian coming.”

Mind you I don’t buy into him being rubbish – many drivers have had bad seasons when the car just didn’t suit them – but I do think he has been fortunate to some extent with his four titles in that he had the best car most of the time but also a team mate who while quick, couldn’t adjust to the exhaust blowing style to get the same speed as him and therefore didn’t really provide much competition (compare to Rosberg for example)

For me ultimately an exciting season has a variety of winners and you don’t know who will win when you turn on the TV.

It could be HAM or ROS. You just don’t know.

The reason Senna/Prost in ’88 is seen as a classic and 2014 may be seen as a bit dull is nothing to do with the on track action. It’s the personalities involved and the drama of it all. But with the ammount of money at stake now everyone has to tow the PR line. The Rosberg Hamilton spat hasn’t been allowed to become public and Merc put a lid on it after Spa.

Also Hamiltion has destroyed Rosberg.

Interesting diagram from Joe Seward – a very respectable journalist about the distribution of funds – so maybe my earlier post was wide of the mark 🙁

f1-money-supply by boltonjon[/url], on Flickr

See 😉

by my reckoning there’s enough movement between the teams that they know what each other are being paid and currently there’s plenty of self interest in getting the numbers out there to ramp up the pressure on CVC and the FIA which is why this is coming out now despite the high level of secrecy normally.

As jfletch suggests, the winner has actually been far less predictable this year than 2004. The fact there has been a limited pool doesn’t make for uninteresting racing – I’m not sure how it’s any more exciting to have Vettel win from pole one week, LH win from pole the next, Alonso from pole the week after. So far this year 9 race winners weren’t on pole, 6 of those weren’t even on the front row. In 2008 (touted above for the variety of race winners) 10 race winners weren’t on pole, only 4 of those weren’t on the front row. Which year has been more unpredictable when you switch the TV on for the race on a Sunday? I wonder which year has had more overtaking in the first 3 or 4 places…

Sure more passing lower down keeps things interesting during the race, but I don’t think many people turn on to see a great overtake to move from position 10th to 9th.

You’re probably right, though it does provide a bit of entertainment when the leader pisses off into the distance from the start, which has been happening regularly for well over 10 years. However I think most people would like to watch a scrap for 3rd or 4th, which has certainly been happening plenty this year and far more so the last few years than the processional ones before.

Its been a great season and the main two drivers have been allowed to RACE!!

Riccardo whopping Vettel has been great as has the resurgence of Williams

I think 2014 has been a vintage year – far better than the last few years

The politics has also been pretty fascintating

I’ll be sad when the season finishes 🙁

Is the next race in Sparta?

I’ll bet £50 Lewis car breaks down to allow the other fella to win by 1 point during the last race / double points system. German team, german driver etc. Cue conspiracy theorists…

On the other hand, Bernie might see Lewis as the “peoples” champ after Rosberg made himself less popular. Cue conspiracy theorists…

I’ll bet £50 Lewis car breaks down to allow the other fella to win by 1 point during the last race / double points system. German team, german driver etc. Cue conspiracy theorists…

If we’re going with team consiparcy theories.. (which I dont buy) I think Merc would much rather LH wins the championship.

Who is a better ambassoder / marketing tool for mercedes globably, Rosberg Or Hamilton?

The yanks are lapping Hamilton up ATM. The US is a pretty important market for European car companies.

For me, this season has been the best for years and one that I have tried to make sure I watch each race of.

Yes, looking at the results you can say it’s boring because Merc have dominated but the raw figures don’t tell the whole story. The races have been more enjoyable to watch. Even when the winner is clear, the racing within the mid-pack has been very enjoyable to watch.

And some of Ricciardo’s overtaking moves this year have been pretty gob smacking (as well as some of the other driver’s to be fair).

I thnk Vergne has been the man to watch this year. Some of his overtakes have been nailbiting. It’s made the last few laps worth watching.

https://twitter.com/danielt_johnson/status/530699203451056128

End of the line for Marussia – administrators have confirmed they have ceased trading and staff made redundent.

Sounds like Marussia have now gone.

.@Marussia_F1Team had been in talks for two weeks (representatives were in Austin), but no-one came up with the money.

— Daniel Johnson (@danielt_johnson) November 7, 2014

Jinx!

three words

three
car
teams

three words

disaster

for

f1

(longterm) 🙂

The tail end teams mean that well funded teams aren’t at the back of the grid. We saw before that manufacturers leave F1 when it suits because it’s so expensive and no one wants to be running a team costing a lot that’s in last place.

The solution is to ensure that there’s a bit more money for the lower end teams to ensure that they don’t go bust and can at least remain vaguely in the race.

I wonder if its Bernies wish to take f1 to the grave with him to prove a point.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29954250
I dont normally take too much notice of EJ but he does touch on a few points regarding the increased costs due to the new hybrid engines which Bernie was so vehemently against. No wonder he wants it to fail. Aside from that he needs to get some more cash to recoup the cost of paying off the German government.

CVC better get their act together before Bernie destroys f1 and scares off any investors out there. ( quote from bernie, ” its my fault and I dont know what to do”) .

he needs to get some more cash to recoup the cost of paying off the German government.

He loses more than that down the back of the sofa.

This bit from Button himself makes it sound very much like he’s as good as gone from McLaren, and (by extension it seems) from F1:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29939341

and that there are lots of other challenges in other sports that he is interested in taking on.

This got me wondering whether he’ll leave Motorsport and try his hand in a few competitive triathlons.

but all of this could be the reason why Alonso is still wavering on signing

perhaps (and we dont know it yet publicly) the the deal is already done for 3 car teams for 2015 between the big guys and bernie
…………and the reason for the lack of any *real* commitment and *real* money to keep these lower teams afloat …………..

who knows what lies, smoke and mirrors are being peddled by bernie/the big teams yet behind the scenes they are rubbing their hands with glee and more money coming to them and not suppling engines (pu) at a loss to small teams.

also rules can certainly be tweeked by the big teams, even as the season starts, which will quickly clarify the whole thing about will the 3rd car attain WDC or Constructor points, and something along the lines of “if 3 cars finish from the same the team, the one in the lowest points scoring position does not get constructor points, but does get WDC points”

The deal for 3 car teams was done years ago. As soon as the number of cars drops below 16 (or teams below 8 ) the remaining teams are obliged to enter 3 cars.

although three car teams would make it less a joke at the back of the field it’d turn me firmly off as it’d mean the top teams would firmly block out the top.

Imagine a Mercedes 1-2-3 (or whoever is dominant in the future?) NOT every race of course, there would still be a redbull etc in P2 or P3 but every so often you’d get a 1-2-3.

Other racing me thinks..

yeah but what you have to remember is
the big F1 teams dont care about the fans
they care about the money
and
bernie dont care about the fans
bernie cares about the money

so…

it makes sense from their POV.

If they go to 3 cars and don’t make them full points earning cars, the races will be poorer for it IMO
The teams will attempt to use the 3rd car tactically as a blocker if they can (their own personal safety car), all sorts of shenanigans will be attempted to the detriment of the race as a whole.

I do hope Jules Bianchi’s care is taken into account when they folded. The idea of folding to remove the creditors liabilities is possible and then selling the assets for a nominal fee to re enter next year.

It could be the case marussia dont have engines for next year in the absence of bianchi driving for them so the short fall is huge in the budget for next year ( also no money from marussia). Either way its sad to see the privateer teams go when they give young drivers a leg up into f1. It does smell a tad fishy when Bernie already proclaimed the teams are dropping out before the end of the year and 3 cars could be a reality a few months ago.