The F1 Thread…

Trouble is that the breakdowns/problems they’ve had haven’t been through pushing too hard, have they – they’re one off/silly problems rather than failed gearboxes or engines (sorry, PUs)

True.

IMHO F1 has been in a steady decline for a number of years. Recently it’s as if the rulemakers are throwing gimmicky solutions into the mix out of desperation like DRS, KERS etc. They’ve even been looking at fitting skid plates to the underside of cars to bring back the sparking undertrays and have tested trumpet exhausts to try and enhance the croaking amphibian noise of the new cars, which smacks of utter desperation to me.

Then there’s Bernie and his obsession with money, making everything look “just so” (to the point of dictating how teams should park their motorhomes and support vehicles) and courting the glamorous few over the multitude of fans who save for their tickets. The drivers are as well versed with PR as they are handling a racing car, they all seem to polished, anodyne and boring…F1 has disappeared up it’s own fundament. I’m quite depressed at the state of it all now.

People say that but do the viewing figures actually match that?

F1 has unquestionably been very poor at using social or even just modern media to promote itself. Bernie apparently can’t understand how they’d make money from it so isn’t interested.

People say that but do the viewing figures actually match that?

Whether they do or not, I’m past caring. Given the choice of watching Button, Hamilton and Alonso battling it out on track or heading out for a ride around my local loop, I take the latter every time.

Well yes but it’s not usually a straight choice of one or the other for most people…

The Abu Dhabi GP, for me, sums up everything that is wrong with F1 because

1. They are only in it because they could pay more than one of the classic tracks to be on the calendar, rather than any racing (or indeed any kind whatsoever) heritage or associaion with the sport. Much like qatar for the footie WC.

2. They paid a bit more still to be the last race of the year, so more likely to have the title decided there.

But, in the last few years the title has been sorted long before the last race, so….

3. I’m guessing here, but I reckon they paid a lot more still to some people to get double points for their race, to virtually guarantee that it was decided there, without saying ‘Bugger the rest of the season, whoever wins here is world champion.

the funny hing is despite all the hate….. it is still watched.

The switch back to titanium skid blocks isn’t to add sparks to the show but to prevent the teams running the cars scraping the floor and just bolting on a wear-resistant skid block to comply with the rules.

Should make Singapore look spectacular next year though!!

No, it’s to make sparks 🙂

The plank is there to stop cars scraping on the ground. That teams may have worked out ways to reduce how much it wears is incidental.

The plank is there to stop cars scraping on the ground. That teams may have worked out ways to reduce how much it wears is incidental.

Yep, they reduce the wear by adding lumps of metal to the bits that touch the ground under the ruse of “mounting plates”. These plates are highly resistant to wear so they can run the plank on the ground all race long and it won’t wear down. These “mounting plates” will now have to be made of titanium which wears at a similar rate to the composite plank so will force the teams to raise the height of the floors. It was all triggered by the infra-red pictures showing the Red Bulls dragging the leading edge of the floor along the ground sufficiently to heat it up to 100 degrees but still not wear over the 1mm allowed.

Bernie and CVC are screwing F1 over. Advertisers want coverage. Sky coverage although its good quality doesn’t give complete market coverage for sponsors.

Tiny teams go to the wall all the time and tbh not a bad thing as most of the time its a joke trundling around the back of the grid. The problem is attracting sponsorship- this affects most of the field.

I know about the RB tea tray but the real reason to suddenly ‘solve’ the problem is to get sparks, not to ensure plank wear.

Is there any more news on that, or still just the same rumours? He is certainly one of the classiest drivers in F1, but suffers from not seeming to be as fast as he is. But then I’m a fan, and I’d have to admit that he’s probably not ultimately quite as fast a driver as LH and Alonso in most situations. It’s always so good to see a head to head battle between him and Alonso (who despite what failings he might have is also very classy on the racetrack) as we briefly had this weekend – you know both of them will push things to the limit but never in a way which is dangerous or unfair.

Well apart from Hill not needing the help because he was already winning and JV wasn’t going to get near him.

People say that but do the viewing figures actually match that?

Yes globally even F1 noted a 10% drop between 2012-13 (obviously 2014 figures aren’t complete yet) mostly seen in China and Brazil, but also Germany and UK.

Some interesting analysis of the recent US race viewing figures here:

F1 Broadcasting blog[/url]

Viewing figures in the UK are definitely down, although I’d suggest mostly due to it being on Sky as opposed to free to air. The worry is that as cricket is finding, you don’t bring new people into the sport by hiding it on pay per view, unless it is something as big as football.

Then look at this graph to see the rising costs to the UK broadcasters. I’d say it’s unsustainable as it is.

lets also put some blame on the big teams wanting bigger piece of the cake and not caring / blocking rules that make the whole field ‘fairer’ . they have a lot to answer for.

since the Ferrari / McLaren battles of Schumi v Hakk/Rakk its gone down hill – probably around the time Bernie sold it to the “Banks” and all interest for them was maximizing profit – and the way to do that is to squeeze it all out of the billionairs of the middle east and the cash-rich governments who fund the new circuits….
and of course keep the TV rights holders happy with viewing figures, and the way to do that is more overtaking and championships going to the wire….
funnny though the FIA also approved these rules….

Tiny teams go to the wall all the time and tbh not a bad thing as most of the time its a joke trundling around the back of the grid.

But they do provide an entry point/stepping stone to new drivers, such as Mark Webber and Fernando Alonso getting drives at Minardi. If all you have are the mega teams, that won’t happen.

I think the idea is that the third car will have a rookie driver. Although I’m not sure how long that will last for!

aracer Is there any more news on that, or still just the same rumours? He is certainly one of the classiest drivers in F1, but suffers from not seeming to be as fast as he is. But then I’m a fan, and I’d have to admit that he’s probably not ultimately quite as fast a driver as LH and Alonso in most situations. It’s always so good to see a head to head battle between him and Alonso (who despite what failings he might have is also very classy on the racetrack) as we briefly had this weekend – you know both of them will push things to the limit but never in a way which is dangerous or unfair.

Just this source so not confirmed: http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3213/9549099/-Alonso-closing-in-on-McLaren-move-

Button did say at the weekend he would drive with Alonso which might be a sign of desperation.

He does suffer from not being very noticeable in races and this year a woeful car and poor strategy decisions by the team seem have screwed him over. But when he gets a chance to fight it out with people the class of his driving is obvious. Firm but respectful and no silly moves.

He is certainly one of the classiest drivers in F1, but suffers from not seeming to be as fast as he is

Agree Button seems to be perpetually underrated, him and Alonso going at it was one of the highlights of the US race. On his day he’s as good as any of them IMO, although it’s probably true to say that his day doesn’t come round quite often enough to put him up there with the top few. That still makes him one of the best on the grid though so it’d be a shame if he wasn’t there next year.

I reckon Button and Alonso would make a great pairing, but that said I guess McLaren need to think about where they’ll be in a couple of years when Alonso’s gone and Button will be thinking about retiring if he hasn’t already.

Honda are keen on Button as he is a Japanophile and his experience will be valuable as they come back in with McLaren

IMO Button is already out he will be at Porsche next year WEC.

McLaren will give K-Mag another year if he doesn’t turn out good he will get the boot and be replaced by Vandoorne for 2016.

F1 clearly has money worries and I don’t feel that Eccleston has been a good stuard of F!

But there seems to be some rose tinted spectacles about the old days

There was time when a genuine place change in race was rare and a proper over take a notable event

The cars were so heavily Aero loaded you could see any car any where near the back the car in front grind to a hault

I’ve heard it said before that if Button can get his car set up 100% spot on for him then he’s as fast as anyone else, but he struggles more than the likes of Hamilton and Alonso when the car is less than perfect and needs to be wrestled round.

The interesting thing coming out of the small team situation is that we’re seeing CVC come to the fore. CVC have realised that this us potentially damaging their investment and clearly don’t have confidence that Bernie is handling it appropriately. Maybe caterham will do what the German courts couldn’t and take him away from his job.

Though talking of rose tinted specs about the old days, we shouldn’t forget what f1 was like when Bernie took over. Poorly organised races, terrible TV coverage -he got a lot sorted out but maybe lost sight of where to stop.

@thepurist – totally agree – and i stated in my post Bernie swung from “let the teams die and the bigger teams do 3 cars” to towing the CVC line of “helping them because its good for the sport”
I often wonder if Bernie has some pictures/evidence over CVC because i thought they would have fired his ass by now!!!

It would seem bernie is as much or a liability as he is a dinosaur. Those shady deals dont cut it anymore and clearly those deals are being brought into the light.

To save F1 they should sack Bernie and use his salary to bolster the back field. Clearly F1 is just mirroring the premiership haves and have nots as well as the ppv tv rights model. And look how the gap between the top and bottom has grown. The problem is f1 doesnt have promotion / demotion parachute payments.

I think CVC thought(hoped!) Bernie may have popped his clogs by now.

Re the money – if the small teams were prepared to go racing on a budget of $40 million dollars then why not set that as the minimum revenue for TV rights (for a max of 12 teams). Any monies above this would be down to the team to raise and if they can’t run a team on that then tough.

It would be good to see at least 2 or 3 top teams battling it out properly for supremacy, since the rule change when Brawn jumped head & shoulders above everyone else it’s been massively dominated by just one team, which is a shame.

F1 has always been a rich mans plaything, but it does seem like it’s becoming less accessible to your average fan which in the long term will cost it as interest declines.

Some interesting stuff on James Allen on F1.[/url] Looks like Bottas and Massa were let down by strategy and Vettel, well…

A good breakdown of the finances in F1 and makes clear why Williams/Lotus are unlikely to mount a serious challenge in the near future

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29905081

Oh and the post above about CVC coming to the fore seems to be right:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29888406

Donald MacKenzie, co-chairman of F1’s largest shareholder, CVC Capital Partners, phoned Lotus boss Gerard Lopez and promised to address their concerns.

A good breakdown of the finances in F1 and makes clear why Williams/Lotus are unlikely to mount a serious challenge in the near future

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29905081

I wonder if Benson pulled those figures from where he usually does.

🙂 Possibly but they roughly seem to tie in with what I’ve heard elsewhere

Hmmm, not sure if i believe Andrew Benson’s figures

He’s trying to describe the Concord Agreement, an agreement which team bosses will not disclose to avoid serious litigation from the FIA and CVC

I used to be a F1 fan, avidly watching all the races, getting up at silly o’clock to see the Japanese GP etc. etc.
About five years or so ago I started to fall asleep on the sofa ‘watching’ the races, in the past two years I haven’t watched one all the way through and now I don’t even bother setting the recorder to wizz through the dullness for any action.

So I guess I am an ex-fan. Most of this is down to the personalities involved, their arrogance, the politics (both internal F1 and the way they suck up to dodgy regimes)and the lack of real racing.

If I am typical, then Bernie has a real problem on his hands

I don’t even bother setting the recorder to wizz through the dullness for any action.

You’ve missed a lot of action this year then – there have been some cracking races!

Meh
If you want to see real racing, attend an Historic meet, such as a VSCC event or Goodwood Revival

I agree with muffin man, I have really enjoyed this season. I’m feeling weirdly indifferent about it now- especially because I’m a LH fan. I think it may be the double points, it kind of makes a lot of the effort at the end of the season seem a bit pointless (almost literally)

If you want to see real racing, attend an Historic meet, such as a VSCC event or Goodwood Revival

Yep – I do that too.