The F1 Thread…

Thoughts are with Bianchi. Not good 🙁

From my twitter feed

L’Equipe is reporting that Bianchi’s surgery is over and he is not under respiratory assistance. #F1 #JapaneseGP ~ via @F1grid

What a lousy Nippon F1 race … 🙄

As Lauda said, it’s a dangerous sport but when something happens people are still surprised.

Lets hope “not under respiratory assistance” is confirmed and is a good sign.

Not quite sure why the race went ahead without a medical chopper on standby. I’m sure practice at spa has been delayed in previous years as a chopper has to be available!

They had a helicopter but the weather conditions were such that it was too dangerous to fly due to turbulence above ground level. As a result of the typhoon.

One of my friends is out there but was on the pit straight. He’s spoken to others at his hotel who saw the crash.

Sounds like the Marussia went into the rear of the digger and was forced under the rear counterweight.

Sure a MotoGP race was delayed a couple of years ago because the weather was too bad for the medical helicopter to fly. Surprised they held the race considering. Hope it all works out ok.

According to an old F1 doctor on Twitter if there is a proven route that can deliver you to the hospital in less than 20 or 30 minutes (can’t remember if that was accident site to hospital bed or some other measure) then they were clear to carry on without the helicopter being available.

Reports hes out of surgery so fingers crossed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29499545

I heard somewhere it’s sometimes better for medical reasons not to go by helicopter, if the road trip isn’t too long. Something to do with air pressure (on a head injury).

It’s to do with limiting the pressure differential I believe.

He’s back in surgery to stop bleeding.

More sad news as it’s just been announced old F1 driver Andrea de Cesaris crashed his motorbike and died from his injuries.

Firstly best wishes to Bianchi.

Secondly in race conditions like that It’s hard to argue a yellow flag is sufficient when there is a crane on the circuit side of the barriers.

Double waved yellows FWIW.

I’m wondering if they can do more to at least make the cranes/tractors less damaging if they do get hit – eg sides down to the ground (so that cars can’t go under them) and some sort of impact absorbing covering maybe?

Secondly in race conditions like that It’s hard to argue a yellow flag is sufficient when there is a crane on the circuit side of the barriers.

BBC is saying they were under double waved yellows meaning ‘extremely slow and be prepared to stop’

Double yellows – he shouldn’t have been going fast enough to crash like that.

Racing drivers will always try to make up time etc where ever possible. Remember pitlane speeding before they really clamped down?

They could bring the sides closer down to the ground but there’d be a limit as most of the time the tractors are used to get the cars out of gravel traps. Even then it’d still be a 650kg F1 car hitting a solid steel tractor weighing quite a few tons.

It’s just a freak accident and short of putting a safety car out every time a recovery vehicle is on track I can’t see what else they could do.

But it’s not a freak accident, it’s nearly happened before.

To me in conditions where the driver can easily loose control regardless of speed e.g. in the wet, the safety car should be out straight away, and if necessary then stop the race and restart (whichever is deemed the safer IMO).

In the wet?! Or in the monsoon? Why not just race indoors?

Double yellows – he shouldn’t have been going fast enough to crash like that.

Low speed could have been a factor. Martin Brundle said at the start of the race (when they were behind the safety car), that they need to be going at a decent pace on wet tyres so the downforce can kick in and compress them into the track. Below a certain speed they don’t work so well.

It’s all speculation though – I’m sure the telemetry trace will give people a better idea.

To me in conditions where the driver can easily loose control regardless of speed e.g. in the wet, the safety car should be out straight away, and if necessary then stop the race and restart (whichever is deemed the safer IMO).

NO!!! Part of the skill of driving in the wet is balancing risk/balance/speed and speed.

If a driver doesn’t feel confident he can go slower. I remember races where the field was chopped right down due to spins/retirements etc- gah, which one was it? Two seasons ago- Hungary? Lewis won and 1/2 the field were off?

Low speed could have been a factor. Martin Brundle said at the start of the race (when they were behind the safety car), that they need to be going at a decent pace on wet tyres so the downforce can kick in and compress them into the track. Below a certain speed they don’t work so well

This.

Go ‘relatively’ slowly and you crash at around 80-90 mph.
Go a bit quicker and you still crash, just going a bit faster.
Go a lot faster and the aero kicks in, the tyres warm up and you don’t crash.

Think how slow the cars look going along the pit lane. They are going dual carriageway speed at most tracks iirc (edit, been reduced from 100 to 80 kph for 2014 races)

NO!!! Part of the skill of driving in the wet is balancing risk/balance/speed and speed.

If a driver doesn’t feel confident he can go slower. I remember races where the field was chopped right down due to spins/retirements etc- gah, which one was it? Two seasons ago- Hungary? Lewis won and 1/2 the field were off?

If it’s just rather wet as when they had the safety car out earlier, then you may have a valid point. When there’s a potentially lethal obstruction in the normal run-off area things change somewhat – or are you keen to return to the 60s when drivers being killed was part of the spectacle?

I didn’t realise it was double yellow.

The crane use needs to be looked at, by definition the crane is most likely to be used at a point where a crash is likely. With an element of hindsight it’s clear the car could have been left there until the safety car was out and would have posed less risk, although hitting it could have thrown the other car into the air and over the barrier.

I have read about the issue that the cars can have less grip at slow speeds.

The separate question as to why they didn’t move the start to 3pm instead of 5pm is going to run. The weather was forecast.

The separate question as to why they didn’t move the start to 3pm instead of 5pm is going to run.

FIA asked the promotors to do this (twice), the promotors (Honda) wanted to keep the scheduled start time. FWIW it was also noted by Sky that it had been raining heavily on and off all day, so an earlier start wouldn’t have been any drier.

On another front re the late starts – this ‘well it’s better for European TV audiences’ doesn’t really convince me. My dad (a casual fan), is no more likely to get up at 7am to watch a race is he is at 4am. He’d always watch the highlight as I think most other casual fans would too.

And getting up in the middle of the night was always a part of F1 for me!

If it’s just rather wet as when they had the safety car out earlier, then you may have a valid point. When there’s a potentially lethal obstruction in the normal run-off area things change somewhat – or are you keen to return to the 60s when drivers being killed was part of the spectacle?

Every practice and every race has marshals out, other cars, tractor etc. Its racing.

How would a safety car prevented JB crashing? The car wouldn’t have gotten around quick enough and infront of JB to slow him down. Lewis anchored right on when double yellows were on- look at it this way. racing drivers will take an opportunity to race up to the back of the safety car when possible.

Return to the 60’s? I’m amazed that a serious accident hasn’t happened sooner considering the amount of aerobatics etc. Just look at Webber taking off and flipping front over rear for one instance. Lewis hitting the tyre wall at almost full speed in Sat qualifying and then out and racing the next day..

Quite simply advances in safety and trackside medical facilities all avoid fatalies. Watch 1: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2518788/ its really good at explaining the changes over time.

To me in conditions where the driver can easily loose control regardless of speed e.g. in the wet, the safety car should be out straight away, and if necessary then stop the race and restart (whichever is deemed the safer IMO).

Doh, meant to add in only when clearing up stopped / crashed cars, debris etc. I didn’t mean any time it was wet, although admit it reads like that.

There was a potentially similar incident in Brazil a few seasons ago where 3 or 4 cars aquaplaned off on the same corner one after the other.

Surely the answer is to deploy the safety car as soon as a car aquaplanes and becomes stranded in a place where equipment is needed to recover it. Anything more severe such as restricting racing in the wet or more widespread use of the saftey car for all accidents would be a bit extreem and risk reducing the alure of the racing due to a knee jerk reaction to piece of bad luck.

Lewis hitting the tyre wall at almost full speed in Sat qualifying and then out and racing the next day..

Timo Glock had a similar accident a few years ago in a Toyota and was out for the rest of the season. I think Hamilton managed to get slowed down a bit whereas Glock was further round the corner so was getting up to full speed.

There was a potentially similar incident in Brazil a few seasons ago where 3 or 4 cars aquaplaned off on the same corner one after the other.

Can’t remember what caused that to begin with but Alonso came up to it at racing speed after going past waved yellows.

Different cars will behave differently with regards to aquaplaning. The Mercedes/Red Bull for example compared to a Marussia will have much more downforce reducing the risk of it happening. You only have to look at how Ricciardo was able to drive around the outside of both Williams to see that.

Massa was apparently ‘screaming’ that they should stop the race as the rain was so bad. Yet he was on intermediates, not full wets. If the conditions were so bad every driver would have gone off. They clearly didn’t.

It’s hard to eliminate all dangers and hazards on a race track. Accidents happen.

If Bianchi had hit Sutils car alone, there would undoubtably be an outcry as to why it wasn’t moved.

Massa was apparently ‘screaming’ that they should stop the race as the rain was so bad. Yet he was on intermediates, not full wets. If the conditions were so bad every driver would have gone off. They clearly didn’t.

Massa is the boy who cried wolf so I tend to filter out all his whinging.

If the rain is so bad you can’t control your car then come in and change tyres. If it really is that wet that it’s dangerous on inters then not only will this be safer but you will also go faster than the other cars and may actually win.

What Massa is really whining about is that he can’t drive his car as fast in wet conditions as the other drivers so he wants the race stopped.

Fabian Cancellara has assumed the same “cheif commisare” role in cycling so now when he moans on about something being too dangerous people just ignore him as he is always moaning.

To be fair they used to say the same about Jackie Stewart but I do tend to agree..

Jfletch have you ever driven a F1 car? Ever driven an F1 car in the wet? I know the answer to both those questions is no.

You might not like a driver but don’t call into question their ability to drive.

Massa couldn’t even keep the ferrari on the road in the dry when they removed traction control a few years ago.

I’ve just watched the video of the crash. The impact lifts the caterpillar off the deck and moves it a couple of metres.

You might not like a driver but don’t call into question their ability to drive.

He isn’t, he is saying he can’t drive as quickly as other drivers, that’s all. I think that is pretty clear in his post.
he can’t drive his car as fast in wet conditions as the other drivers [/i]

P20 – Member

I’ve just watched the video of the crash. The impact lifts the caterpillar off the deck and moves it a couple of metres.

Horrible video. Way worse than I’d hoped. 🙁 Just hoping it’s not as bad as it looks on there. Fingers crossed for JB.

So how did Massa miss becoming world champion by one point?

If he can’t keep a car on the road why has he started 208 GP and is still employed.

Massa is clearly a good driver, you don’t go missing out on a WDC title by one point if you’re a bit crap. I think the point jfletch was making is that Massa always seems to be the first on the radio when the conditions get a bit iffy. Although the wet race at Silverstone where he was like a spinning top all the way round the track won’t have helped that image. I was sat at Woodcote corner that day and he span 3 times there.