[Closed] The end of books?

Listened to an album on your mp3 player recently?

No 🙂

I missed something on TV last night, but it's ok, I've taped it.

Only my mum still 'tapes' things.

I would hazard a guess that the energy and raw materials used in producing a kindle device, shipping it halfway round the world, downloading a book and then recharging the kindle battery are probably slightly more than used in printing a book

I would bet my balls that a single Kindle would be more energy intensive than 20 books but you can read an almost unlimited number of books on a single Kindle. And it doesn't need to be a Kindle, you can use your iPad, Laptop, HTPC, smartphone etc, one of which you likely will have already.

gadget for gadget's sake IMO

Not at all.

Massivley more convenient than paper books.

1) I can take four or five books with me wherever I go, if I don't fancy one book a particular night
2) I can finish a book, it suggests a few more I might like and I can start a new one immediately instead of having to go to a book shop at the weekend.
3) It is always today's newspaper of my choice, wherever I am

Re the cost - every eBook I've ever bougt has been cheaper than paper. From £1 cheaper for new novels to £6 for huge computer books instead of the usual £25. Not to mention all the free ones of course.

Re being attached to paper - wtf? If I were an author I'd be pretty frickin offended if someone was more attached to the actual paper and ink than the content of my story. The content of the book is FAR more important. When I'm reading a good book I don't see the printed page, I see the world inside it. That's still the same.

I think this attachment to papery things is just nostalgia, and an association formed in our brains from previously reading good books. I really do love my Kindle, because of the wonders it contains. I've not had it that long but I've read some utterly wonderful books on it, which is enough 🙂

Thats why I was 'hazarding a guess'! Done a little bit of reading round the subject in the last 10 mins, and they generally say that 40-50 books is the break even point environmentally (for the lifetime of the product).

But what if those 40-50 books are then passed onto someone else to read?

Or someone only reads 2-3 ebooks, and then sticks their kindle in a drawer (I suspect this happens a lot!)

I'm not an environmental nut or anything, conundrums like this are just interesting. I suspect there is no definitive answer...

There was a really good Car Pool episode recently where Cory Doctorow talked about the future of books/publishing. Hang on...

Here you go:

My Kindle books are on my phone, that I'd have anyway. No extra energy cost.

Fahrenheit 451, Ray Bradbury, not available.

Catcher in the Rye, J D Salinger, not available

Catch 22, Joseph Heller, Yey available and cheaper

Catch 22 - 86p on Kindle
Catcher in the Rye - 86p on Kindle
Farenheit 451 - £2.56 on Kindle
Rebecca - 86p on Kindle

That's a lot of reading for less than the price of two pints.

You can rule the world with a well written book, or bring a tyranny to its knees

You still can if it's an eBook! The words are important, not the medium. Sue_W - if we had no paper books and only eBooks, the world would not be without books, would it? We would still get joy from them in eBook form.

Of course I'm not advocating that we have no paper books - not everone can afford a Kindle and there are many books already in existence. But I'm making a point that a good book is a good book regardless of how it's distributed.

I do like being able to look and see how much progress im making by seeing where my bookmark is (currently using an old tax disc for the job), not sure how you quickly do that with a ereader.

Kindle has a 'status bar' on the bottom of every page.

How easy is it to unlock a Kindle. I'd love one, but don't like the "we own all teh books" Amazon model.

Catch 22 - 86p on Kindle
Catcher in the Rye - 86p on Kindle
Farenheit 451 - £2.56 on Kindle
Rebecca - 86p on Kindle

Have a closer look at those Molegrips !!! They are reading guides for the books. Either that or I am crap at searching on amazon.

edited to add

If I am wrong can you post the links as I would be interested as I did this exercise before deciding not to buy one.

---Ikea recently redesigned their Billy bookcase with deeper shelves, because people weren't actually putting books onto them anymore.---

its a couple of billys i have, oh is called billy as well. how many billys do you need. 3!

----Kindle has a 'status bar' on the bottom of every page---

now thats handy. i think im going to like my kindle! i hope the billy above preloads it with Red Dog!

Fahrenheit 451 is definitely available, or nearly so - Ray Bradbury had made a stand against ebooks, but has finally been forced to give in:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/nov/30/fahrenheit-451-ebook-ray-bradbury

Edit: available on amazon.com, at least: http://www.amazon.com/Fahrenheit-451-ebook/dp/B0064CPN7I/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1323951763&sr=1-1

Either that or I am crap at searching on amazon.

Catch 22 seems to be £3.59 for the Kindle edition
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0050OMJIW

Catch 22 £3.59: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Catch-22-ebook/dp/B0050OMJIW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323951845&sr=8-1

...the end of libraries?

Public and private - time for a new business. Refurbishing old libraries into gyms?

Quite right, some of those are study guides although I was looking out for that.

I suspect that those out-of-copyright books can be had for free elsewhere though but I am not sure.

Ironic for Bradbury trying to control how people read, innit? 🙂

Oh yeah, and re margin notes - you can annotate Kindle books, and you can also share annotations and see what other people have annotated.

Do you know what, 've never considered the price of a book to be high

a good 300 page book will last me 3 to 4 weeks, so the period of enjoyment and the enjoyment of reading a good book well outweights the £6 or whatever it it

I, for one, will never use a kindle or alternative to read a novel.

Call me old fashioned, but i really like a nice, well stocked, bookshelf in my house and the action of reading a book and turning the pages myself

Then again, i still treasure my 200+ VHS tapes on the video shelf!!

I suspect that those out-of-copyright books can be had for free elsewhere though but I am not sure.

See Project Gutenberg: http://www.gutenberg.org/

[url= http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/4-websites-with-lots-of-completely-free-ebooks-that-dont-suck-nb/ ]And others[/url]

(not sure if those books mentioned are out of copyright though).

Catch 22 £3.59: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Catch-22-ebook/dp/B0050OMJIW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323951845&sr=8-1

And I bet any charity shop or second hand book shop will have a copy of it for 50p...

Any charity shop? Or maybe *a* charity shop. Which morning shall I dedicate to trawling around each one looking? I can pay the £3 and have the book before you've even got your shoes on, and you'll likely spend £3 on petrol and parking anyway 🙂

I think the cost model is missing a trick. on itunes I believe you can now pay a monthly fee to have any music you like. If they did this on a kindle, I believe it'd be more successful. Its also be good if they added a little barcode scanner on the back - so you can see a book you like, scan the barcode and 2 mins later its on your device, as part of your monthly cost.

as the devices get cheaper and cheaper the limitations about beach/bath get less of an issue. It'd also be very easy to make one which is waterproof to the same extent as those cameras..

will the book die? probably not. Will these take a massive market share? I think so. They also have the ability to give 'breaks' to very small authors, who aren't big enough to get a deal, in the same way MP3s have done for bands

Any charity shop? Or maybe *a* charity shop. Which morning shall I dedicate to trawling around each one looking? I can pay the £3 and have the book before you've even got your shoes on, and you'll likely spend £3 on petrol and parking anyway

And Catch 22 is pretty shite really isn't it? Not as bad as Something Happened (by the same author) though.

I could easily find books I enjoy, MF, if I happen to be in a shop with books in it. However that doesn't mean eBooks are bad. My point is that eBooks have a lot of advantages, and should not be looked down on because they are not made of paper.

Ikea recently redesigned their Billy bookcase with deeper shelves, because people weren't actually putting books onto them anymore.

This really annoys me. It took me sodding ages to find some book-sized bookshelves for putting all our books on that weren't astronomically expensive and designery. When we finally get round to doing up our front room I reckon I'll get some built properly. I do love the look of a wall full of books. Probably quite good insulation too...

I would bet my balls that a single Kindle would be more energy intensive than 20 books but you can read an almost unlimited number of books on a single Kindle.

But how long is a Kindle likely to last? If they're anything like iPods, smartphones, laptops etc, you'll get five or six years tops before the screen dies, or the battery stops holding charge, or the keys stop working, or some random capacitor pops killing the thing. And books are a lot easier to recycle than Kindles.

(N.B. As previously stated, I really like eBooks, they're ace. Just thinking aloud really.)

I could easily find books I enjoy, MF, if I happen to be in a shop with books in it. However that doesn't mean eBooks are bad. My point is that eBooks have a lot of advantages, and should not be looked down on because they are not made of paper.

I would bet my balls that a single Kindle would be more energy intensive than 20 books but you can read an almost unlimited number of books on a single Kindle.

Wouldn't bet on it, it takes a lot to dig up lithium for the batteries that powers it (albeit for a long time).

Some earlier probably has the answer (though jokingly mentioned it about his jazz mag stash).

Basically when eBooks get to a point where people will share them and you can download them from dodgy download sites for nowt then they'll take off.

you can download them from dodgy download sites for nowt then they'll take off.

the worlds been there for *quite some time*.

I have a library, but I still buy from Amazon - the reason? I like the reccomendations, the help chosing a new book. when you have 8000 books its really tricky to figure out which one to read next (and just having a library stops the ability to read a synopsis)

Just done the same search on kindle for the next 4 books I have to read.

The Road, Cormac Mccarthy, yey yes available £4.32
Scar Tissue, Anthony Kiedis, not available.
The Sportswriter, Richard Ford, not available.
The Real 'Dad's Army': The War Diaries of Col. Rodney Foster by Rodney Foster, not available.

So either my reading habits are weird or a lot of things are not available on Kindle.

I don't know about you guys but I would not want what I read dictated too by availability.

buying a kindle won't stop you reading 'real' books.

there's a lot of kindle content that isn't available in a physical format. you can self-publish a book in kindle format at no cost. try getting a run of books printed if you don't have any history of creating read books. How will you read all these books if you *dont* have an e-reader?

A book is uniquely satisfying thing to own, hold and read. I just can't quite see myself getting as attached to an e-reader. A good book can last for decades, be read many times, will never suffer from a flat battery, can be dropped in the bath and will never suffer from the problem of incompatibility with newer formats.

I'm off to dust my bookshelves...

I think they will be successful and this will mean fewer authors being able to support themselves from their sales leading to greater quantity of choice but quite possibly less quality.

The Car Pool video above covers self-publishing and libraries.

With electronic publishing, libraries become even more important. Well, librarians do. Librarians are best at finding information and getting the right books in from of the right readers; with the democratisation of publishing, this becomes even more important.

Do you know what, 've never considered the price of a book to be high

a good 300 page book will last me 3 to 4 weeks

You read slow 🙂

Do you know what, 've never considered the price of a book to be high
a good 300 page book will last me 3 to 4 weeks

wow! Your finger must be worn to the bone!

Wouldn't bet on it, it takes a lot to dig up lithium for the batteries that powers it (albeit for a long time).

What about recycled lithium?

I don't know about you guys but I would not want what I read dictated too by availability.

Er, owning a Kindle dictates nothing. You can still buy normal books if you want EVEN IF you own a Kindle!

Currently I am not looking for specific books, I am simply browsing for whatever takes my fancy, as I might do in a real bookshop. If I were in your position with a set reading list then it'd be different.

I doubt it I've just bought a couple of hard backs cheaper than a downloaded versions

The fact that 20% VAT is charged on ebooks came as a surprise, and certainly explains some of the cost differential.
New ebooks don't need to be more expensive, a new book by one of my favourite authors, Kate Griffin, is due next March. The paperback is £5.49 pre-order on Amazon, the Kindle and iBook version £4.99.
No sign of a US hardcover, though, which is annoying. Her previous three were, and I've managed to get them signed, so no hardcover for the remaining three books is very irritating. I get the ebooks as well, as my phone is always with me, and I never know when I might have some time free to enjoy a book.
The thing to remember about having ebooks on phones and pads is that they do back up when you sync.

[i]You still can if it's an eBook! [/i]

I await with interest the hordes of middle class Taliban waving their e-copies of the Koran about as the Afghanistan government collapses.

i am a massive gadget fan, however i will always buy books. I may also get a kindle/ereader at some point, i'm not discounting them - but not until they release the new one that does more than just books.

I generally read a book every 6 weeks or so, so i'm not a massive reader, however generally the books i read are hardcover 1st editions from 5 or 6 authors so part of the enjoyment for me is the book itself and the collecting them for the shelf.

The wife however is a MASSIVE reader, 2/3 books (sometimes 4) books a week. so a ereader will be a massive thing for her. She gets all of her books from the library or charity shops and rarely keeps one. She is however a technophobe so really isnt bothered when/if she gets an ereader - generally i'm the one that buys the electrical stuff in the house.

eReaders are great for some people - not so much for others.

I am not sure about this

[i]I may also get a kindle/ereader at some point, i'm not discounting them - but not until they release the new one that does more than just books.[/i]

The thing about the kindle is that it does 1 thing really well, it can get email & it can be used as a browser but its pretty rubbish, however if you want to read words it is excellent. It seems to me that with most gadgets the more they do the less good they are for the original purpose.

I am very interested into what happens over th next few years with digital books though, it will be possible to add music to them when necessary, interactive pictures and videos etc, reading a MTBmagazine means you will be able to watch a tutorial/video as a page. That will be very different to what we now have as books.

The only way I can think to improve the kindle I have is the new smaller more cut down one because its smaller so even easier to carry.

I just rediscovered a blog post by Alistair Humphreys [url= http://www.alastairhumphreys.com/2011/12/love-kindle-hates-kindle/ ]Why I Love the Kindle – by Someone Who Hates the Kindle[/url].

One thing that was very interesting that he posts in the comments is that he gets 70% of the cover price of one of his Kindle books while he only gets 4% of the cover price of one of his books bought through a book shop.

If you love books, buy ebooks...

Alistair Humphries new book is now on my kindle, all for £2.18. Looks like a good read from the first few pages which you can see on amazon

The paper version will be under my Christmas tree in a week and a bit. Loved his first two books.

A comment from that chap's blog is a good one:

Besides all the rest involving ease of use,weight and number of books you can have at once, if you travel, it’s incredible because if you find yourself somewhere and suddenly want to read something about the area you are in, then book exchange and buying is not an option. Eg. Im in Jordan now and just read a history ofthe Arabs…gives you the ability to learn continuously and enhances your discovery and experience of wherever you are.

I'm a librarian. I don't have any particular fondness for books, more interested in the content,transfer of ideas and that.

Our users want e-content, so we try and give it to them - if that's ebooks then that's cool, as long as people are using the service then great.

the 3g ones have unlimited access to wikipedia in every country as well. as a service goes, I think that's excellent

It is - it makes me want to get a cover with 'Don't Panic' written in large friendly letters on the back cover. Cos that's basically what we have 🙂

Molly +1

I hear I'm getting the cheapest Kindle for Christmas. My Mrs. is trying to prevent a mountain of books, magazines and other paper things I'm going to buy for commuting entertainment after my office relocates next spring. No idea if this will mean not buying real books after that but for pocketbooks this seems like a good idea.

There are many self published books that are well worth a look too, I have read Kok and Tvatt

I can see the attraction of a kindle. Books are somewhat easier to share though: no DRM. And books are more environmentally friendly: biodegradable, no heavy metals, renewable resource... Also without books I'd have to put pictures on the walls instead of covering them up with book cases.

Neil the wheel +1, I enjoyed his boook and Samuri's... currently reading one by Steven Roach, pretty enjoyable for £1.71