The Electric Car Thread

Re id3, I think it looks like a great car too. I don’t read much but after seeing fully charged’s glowing video of it I’m interested to see what the motoring journos dislike. And a little skeptical since they have a track record of rather missing the point on EVs. There were views that the software isn’t great though, which would be annoying.

I would imagine the use of drum brakes is because on the rear in an emergency stop, which is pretty much what they’re for assuming it’s got decent regen, there isn’t enough down force of tyre on road to make use of more stopping power. A lot of folks’ experience of EVs is the friction brakes just don’t get much use. I think this is my experience too although only 30k miles in so it’ll be a while before I know anything about brake parts longevity.

I went 10k miles before I had to do a hard stop. I had it in the back of my mind til that point that my brakes felt a little rough. Turned out they just needed to see a bit of action and have been smooth since then.

Mine doesn’t use the brakes until it reaches .3G of force, or does seem to periodically apply the brakes at slow speed perhaps to clean the discs. It is disc all round but does weigh over 2 tonne.

The iD3 reminds me a bit of a Ford Focus, but it is nice looking and I do like the grey.

I’ve only had to charge my car a couple of times at home as I normally do it at work. Looks like i’ll have to do it maybe once or twice over the Christmas period at home. I still haven’t done a long enough journey to use a public or garage charger. Still hoping to get a 22kw charger fitted at work next year in our depot and not use the 7kw charger at the main office. Not as if there is a queue for them at the moment.

3G? Are you sure?!

Ooops! .3G that should read.

Agree with the comments about brakes, you don’t need fancy ones because you don’t use them very much! I sometimes amuse myself trying to complete a journey without touching the brake pedal. I’m also fun at parties.

I think with all the hype around the ID3, new bespoke platform, etc some people were expecting more wow factor. The new software is rolling out now too, journos will have driven much earlier cars with more bugs. It seems to just be a competent family hatchback with a few nice design touches and that’s ok really.

If anyone is interested in one and can move quickly, VW are desperate to get ID3s sold before the end of the year. Just over £25k will get you in a mid battery Life spec (lowest but decent spec) if you do it on VW finance.

Prossibly swapping my old model 3 for an ID.3 in the new year, I want a hatchback. Altho I have managed to get two medium MTBs into a model 3 with just the front wheels off, but I’d rather have a hatchback.

This looks very nice

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/renault-5-reborn-electric-supermini

Doesn’t it? I clocked that earlier. Long way off though and no specs. Assume it’s more of a “concept”.

Looks interesting.

Electric Berlingo later this year.

Just commercial one announced (including a crew van), really hoping I can get a passenger one by the time I change – perfect family/MTB/camping wagon.

Now that I have the PV installed its soon time to get my first EV. We will get an EV in the Spring/Summer to replace the, now too small because of my toddler, Panda 4×4. Also the second car will be replaced in the next couple of years if it starts to leak money.

So the question is: Which home charger for 2 cars? I understand that we likely only need to connect 1 at a time and the second could just be connected by a normal plug but what options are there for a dual connection charger.

We are lucky enough that we already have a 3 phase connection in the double garage.

Zappi to utilize the PV, not sure how you would do 2 cars at the same time though…….

Zappi

Podpoint do a 22kW solo charger that requires 3 phase (as you note) which apparently is good for 90 miles of juice in the battery per hour. It is however twice the price of the nearest model which is the 7kW solo. I imagine the install and planning would be more involved too with more engagement with your DNO, but I have no direct experience with the faster home chargers. We do however have 3 phase coming into the house (our house services 4 semis in a block).

We have the 7kW solo and it gets 28 miles per hour into the battery which means I can get wake up to a full charge in my Model 3 regardless of state of charge when I plug it in. The slight complexity is that I only get cheap electricity (5ppkWh as opposed to 15ppkWh) between 0030-0430 so I need to plug the car in when it gets down to about 160 miles range to get it back up to 280 miles range (~85% in ‘daily’ rather than 100% ‘trip’ mode) to charge most cost effectively.

It looks like we will be getting an ID3 in the near future so this further complicates things.. and depending on mileage could quite easily end up having one or the other plugged in every night to ensure we’re making the most of the cheap overnight rate.

It’s crazy cheap in terms of fuel mind, a few quid and that’s the Tesla charged!

Which apps bundled with chargers allow you to time when you want to charge?

Which apps bundled with chargers allow you to time when you want to charge?

I would imagine all of them do now as they have to be smart chargers (certainly to get the olev grant). Also most EV cars have that capability within their display menu and / or car app. Some of them ie my ohme charger / app can even do cheapest half hour segments for Agile Octopus leccy tariff

I don’t really touch the Pod-Point app. Just tell the car via the in-car functionality to only start charging at 0030. I can override it on the car app if I want it to start charging immediately.

I’m starting to window shop for the future.

Needs:
-seating for two.
-internal bike carrying for one and occasionally 2.
-150mile actual range – winter motorway.
-sub 8 second 0-60 (thats what my current car does and I’m loathe to go slower)

Wants:
-fun to drive (because life is too short do drive crap cars or ride crap bikes)
-4 wheel drive (not a deal breaker)
-fastback rear end (not a deal breaker)

sub £40k but lower is fine 🙂

Dislikes:
-stupid “crossover” ugly things. Hateful uncomfy seating position and wallowing in ICE iterations I have driven, maybe having all the weight in batteries under the floor will reduce this.

How are the e-trons so cheap on a big company scheme and so horrendously expensive for the private user?
Are BMW going to drop anything soon?
Are Leafs enjoyable to drive (do I just think they are going to be dull based on appearance?)
Have I talked myself into an ID3? (4wd and fastback excluded)
Do I really want a Tesla?

Re 22kW charge points, it’s worth checking what your car’s on-board charger capacity is. Mine is max 17kW so the 22kW charge point capacity is not my limiting factor. Still fast though – better than double 7kW. Most of the time it doesn’t make a practical difference because I have all night, but on the occasion I want it faster it really seems like the thing is charged in no time.

If you have a 3 phase (and therefore higher capacity) connection won’t the DNO be comfortable with a correspondingly higher charge point capacity?

Regardless, I’d certainly be looking to use 3 phase if you have it. When I did it the hardware was the same. Installation not, of course, but it’s nice to have and would I guess be more than doubly so if we had 2 EVs.

ID4 is looking promising, and some VW discounting going on already. Looking at under £36k for 1st edition, 310 mile range. Can have the really neat foldaway towbar as a £850 option, can tow a ton.

I’m not a fan of SUV/crossover things but for roomy practical family cars these days it limits your options a lot to exclude them. Estates have become a much smaller niche these days.

Many (particularly EV ones) aren’t actually that tall, they’re just styled to look chunkier than they are. Conversely, the non-SUVs end up a bit taller than you’d expect to give room for the batteries in the floor. There’s only 44mm difference in height between a ID3 and ID4. A Leaf and eniro are only 5mm different.

Do I really want a Tesla?

Well, if you don’t like crossovers (I don’t either) then your choice is narrowed somewhat.

What are the negatives of a Tesla? There are some things that aren’t as good as they should be but I wouldn’t overplay the point. Some aspects of autopilot can be annoying. The auto wipers are below average – worse than on my old Mondeo. For an expensive car the headlights are also crap and the overall build quality is middling, but not awful. And just like every bloody one else they don’t make a sensible estate car or hatch that would take bikes easily without spending ££££.

Oh, and it is galling that every new software update releases some new game you’ll never play but doesn’t fix the existing niggles.

The main positives for me are: I really like how it drives, in particular genuine one-pedal driving, and on motorways I really do use autopilot a lot. And of course range.

On autopilot, the negatives are almost entirely in the category of “should be better”, not in the category of “makes the car worse”. Overall it’s made a real difference to my life to have it because I do a lot of long journeys. An example is it loses some functionality in the wet, which is a negative because you’ve paid for it and it should work, but it’s still a lot better than not having it.

Folk get frothy about touchscreens but I don’t, so long as they’re good ones. there are pros and cons. Overall I think i prefer it.

Not unique to Tesla but a mistake I feel in EVs that don’t take this approach, there’s a sort of design ethos in that they pointedly have not tried to force things to mimic ICE, which means how the pedals work is a result of how the car works, i.e. accelerator pedal is motors – accelerate and regen, brake pedal is friction braking, which is powerful enough for nearly everything outside of an emergency. You know what you’re getting and it leads you to drive as efficiently as you can, which is coincidentally also comfortable. Also no “start” button (or indeed any procedure on getting in at all).

I’d like to try a VW though.

I’m glad it’s not just me on the lights and wipers. The very early SR+ came with fog lights and I’ve got into the habit of using them at night for a bit of extra light.

I’m not a fan of SUV/crossover things but for roomy practical family cars these days it limits your options a lot to exclude them. Estates have become a much smaller niche these days.

Many (particularly EV ones) aren’t actually that tall, they’re just styled to look chunkier than they are. Conversely, the non-SUVs end up a bit taller than you’d expect to give room for the batteries in the floor. There’s only 44mm difference in height between a ID3 and ID4. A Leaf and eniro are only 5mm different.

good to know, although I think that does put a halt to my shopping until I can do actual test drives and what not.

“practical family car” at the moment holds no interest to me. I’m all for electric cars for everyone eventually, but from both an environmental and financial perspective it makes more sense to run my current german diesel to its death.

If I did splurge a huge sum of money in the immediate future (most I’ve ever spent on a car is 8k) it needs to be a fun early-midlife-crisis-mobile that can snap my neck back and be a bit silly in on occasion (while also being able to take a mountain bike to fun places).

What electricity supplier/tarif are folk using?

We have an iD3 on order and a charger, but are currently with Bulb who don’t do cheaper power overnight.

Octopus do Agile Octopus which tracks wholesale price in 30 minute chunks – cheap overnight and sometimes negative when the wind blows

I was double keen on an ID4 as my next company car until I saw that the UK isn’t getting the top spec model. Things like the pano roof, electric tailgate and fancy LEDs are nice but not deal breakers but the lack of Traffic Assist (the self steering function, Lane Assist isn’t the same) is crap. I suppose you don’t miss what you’ve never had but I do some long journeys with work and saw it being a game changer when paired with adaptive cruise. Oh well, First Edition interior is bloody minging IMO

Skoda Enyaq seems to be in the same boat spec wise for the UK. Can I blame Brexit? I feel I ought to be allowed to.

Anyone able to help regarding home charging setups?
Dumb question is how to run the cable without taking up floors, and what cables needs running?
Less dumb question is what drives a need for adding a separate earth?

My electricity meter is underneath the stairs in the hall, logical place for a charging point is outside wall by garage/drive – I have rooms in-between the two and no access under the house (suspended wooden floors) to run cable. Cable length could be maybe 10m.
An electrician we used commented about potential (pun not intended) for needing a separate earth, that would mean digging up the driveway (concrete slab). He said that next door’s installation, not dissimilar to what we would need, would certainly need one but I don’t get what drives that. He went on to say he would not entertain installing chargers for people, rattled off a list of concerns about critical mass, danger relating to earths and how many installs he has seen that are unsafe.

What electricity supplier/tarif are folk using?

https://www.zap-map.com/charge-points/ev-energy-tariffs/ the only one that’s not on this list is Agile Octopus as it’s not specifically sold as an EV tariff.

An electrician we used commented about potential (pun not intended) for needing a separate earth,

You can buy units that don’t need them ie podpoint, but also my understanding is it’s just a rod so the installer would presumably just drill a hole thru the concrete and insert the earth rod (I’m not an electrician).
https://pod-point.com/electric-car-news/earth-rod-details

My electricity meter is underneath the stairs in the hall, logical place for a charging point is outside wall by garage/drive – I have rooms in-between the two and no access under the house (suspended wooden floors) to run cable. Cable length could be maybe 10m.

@boombang

Any chance you can get under the floor? We’ve just had a pod-point installed (no earth rod needed) and our meter is under the stairs. The installer team made noises about running conduit so I spent a Sunday lifting floorboards and the chap ran it under the floor, stuck a junction on the external wall and ran the armoured cable along the bottom of the wall to the box.

He was really helpful, clean and tidy but I don’t doubt it would have been up and over door frames if I hadn’t cleared a route. You also have to evidence properly earthed water which involved lifting more boards.

running cables is the main advantage of having a suspended floor

Getting under will be tricky given the flooring on top, I’ll lift boards in the meter cupboard and see if I can see anything at all – no idea which way the joists run.

Is as much an issue on the external wall as anything, it’s raised so can come out under floor level but without lifting floor above not sure how would route conduit to it.

An electrician we used commented about potential (pun not intended) for needing a separate earth,

I had this the gas meter and water mains weren’t earthed so he would not activate the charger until it was. So I installed from the gas meter to the earthing point he installed for the pod point. As my water stop cock is buried behind the dishwasher and my kitchen a concrete floor I attached an earth under the sink through the wall and earth spiked it. The installed came back checked the earth points and activated the meter. When I say I installed the earth I mean an friend who’s an electrician who has moved away and phone numbered lost and can’t recall his name.

Think Zappi doesn’t need an earth rod either.

If the cable run is complex or you’re fussy about exactly how it’s installed, definitely worth using a local OLEV installer rather than one of the majors like ChargedEV or Podpoint. They sub out their installs, try to get them done in minimum time and effort – if it’s non-standard you’ll get charged more and might not be too happy about the solutions they come up with to run the cable.

OLEV installer list is here, they can all do it with the grant but how exactly they do it is down to their skills and the time you want to throw at it.

With my Pod-Point I sent photos of where I wanted it installed the preferred route. The guy was excellent even suggested a friend installed the earthed points rather an electrician as parts are cheap and it was easy to do.

Has anyone got an e-Niro?

I might be in the position of getting a company car very soon and I’m hoping to go full electric. e-Niro, ID3 or 4 are the top contenders, but I don’t actually know if any of them are on the list yet.

Requirements are decent sized boot for work tools, hatchback/estate for ease of access, tow bar for bike rack and 250 mile range. Anything else to consider?

Dont own (an e-Niro) but I’ve driven one and thought it good, and that’s a common opinion. I’d rather have one than an id3 (driven also) and the id4 doesn’t exist yet. I’m inevitably going to get something new at some point (currently on an old Leaf) and it’s near the top of my list.
Hyundai Kona? Kia SOul 64kWh… but they’re effectively the same as the Kia. I haven’t driven any of the frendh offerings, and Audi et al are too much.
i Pace? They’re good

The problem with buying any of these cars is that you know that whatever you buy it will be horribly out of date in 5 years as battery tech is increasing and price is dropping pretty quickly,, but you can’t wait forever. Battery price now is at the point it should be an equivalent price to buy electric or ICE version, and soon electric will be cheaper.

eniro doesn’t have an official towbar, but Brink do a special bike rack only one for it. Sadly none for the Soul yet.

ID3 has a bike rack option but I’ve not been able to fathom quite what it is, looks to be a not-a-towbar for a special rack.

ID4 has a real towbar as an option and a reasonable tow rating. It also really neatly folds away, no scrabbling on the floor to fit or remove a detachable swan neck part.

5-year old Tesla Model S doesn’t look horribly out of date to me, wbo. Nor does an 8-year old Renault Zoé (if you have one I suspect you’d have opted for the 40kWh battery upgrade by now). On the other a Nissan Juke… well read the thread.

I hadn’t noticed prices dropping but it’s true you’re getting more range for your money, but there’s a limit to that as the battery isn’t the only part of the car.

Another thing that’s helping the price comparison is the increasing cost of ICE engines which have to be equipped with ever increasing gubbins to meet emissions standards. Dacias have gone up about 3000-5000e as the engines used in the base models have been outlawed and the base models now have sophisticated units with turbos, variable valve timing, electric pumps… from the Renault engine plant.

If you can charge at home and do average to above average mileage there’s a good chance there’s an electric that’s economically viable for you right now.