The Electric Car Thread

Agreed – does your car ever not do the regen braking thing though when the battery is at 100% charge? It’s supposedly to prevent overcharging but is rather scary when unexpected.

Shouldn’t ever do that in a Volvo or Polestar unless you’re still on software from the first ~6 months of production.

I don’t think the mechanical brakes have been used on the polestar for months!

Just look, you’ll be able to tell. If they are shiny, they’ve been used and you didn’t notice. They did a good job on the calibration…

Up to 45,000 miles on CrossClimate 2 tyres on a Model 3 LR and it’s still not below 4mm either end

I replaced the rear original Hankook S1 Evo3’s on my i4 last week, with 11500 miles use.  They were down to the bare minimum at which Tusker replaced like for like.  I’m glad tyres are included in the salary sacrifice lease deal.. !

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It’s all on hold after a chat with Octopus this morning. Currently the smart meter is not reliable enough in terms of signal for an EV leccy contract so they’ll need to investigate and apply for a booster and maybe an ariel….so I’ll need to sit on the idea for a little while.

I have ‘t had the patience to get through to chat with Octopus yet, but I think we have the same issue, our logs of usage have gaps presably indicating poor signal.  I haven’t had a reply to my email yet.

Interesting that aerials are available, I will have another go at talking to them.  In the meantime we will just go on to the basic British Gas ev tariff which gives 5 hours of cheapish electricity overnight.  Not sure how smart a meter that needs, but if there is an issue maybe they will sort it…

Eta yes we are joining the ev revolution and getting a 2021 Zoe from our local Renault dealer to replace our 17 year old Fabia.  Getting a charging point installed with the Ohme home pro unit.

I mentioned earlier that I thought the obsession with range was overblown and would generally stick to that, but having looked in a bit more detail I think I’m starting to understand why :)

I had a look at the Smart #1 Brabus edition (because I’m basically a child and we’ve driven AWD cars for donkeys years). WLTP range 249 miles. That should be enough to cover all of my needs. What’s all the fuss about?

So I had a look on ev-database.org No idea how accurate they are. They quote “real world” ranges for cars that aren’t released yet, which is a bit of a worry, but at least they try to give realistic figures. They reckon the “real range” is more like 200 miles. Not so good, but then it gets much worse.

My most “challenging” journey would be the annual Christmas trip from Aberdeenshire to East Anglia. Just over 500 miles, most of which is dual carriageway or motorway and of course it’s cold in December. So for that journey I should look at the “Highway-Cold Weather” range and that’s only 140 miles. Ouch! Of course you wouldn’t really want to drop much below 10% to avoid anxiety and once it reaches 80% the charging seems to slow to a trickle. So really you need to look at 70% of that for the distance between charges, which is only 100 miles. That would get pretty annoying.

For comparison my petrol (AWD) car can easily go 300 miles between refuel stops all year round. That’s more than I need, but means that the car is hardly ever the reason why I stop on a long journey. In practice 200 miles would probably be fine, but 100 is pretty woeful. OK, I could just choose a more sensible car, but I’m far too old to start getting sensible now :)

So for that journey I should look at the “Highway-Cold Weather” range and that’s only 140 miles.

That’s a worst case assuming -10°c , constant heating and a constant 70mph.
Chances of it being that cold for the entire journey are pretty low i’d have thought.
The difference in efficiency by going at 60mph is also much larger than you’d imagine.

Charging stops are also not the hassle everyone assumes them to be. Just have a coffee and a pee and a stretch of your legs. Just like you’d do in an ICE car after driving a couple of hours.

I would make that journey, in that car,  without stressing about it.

I should look at the “Highway-Cold Weather” range and that’s only 140 miles. Ouch!

EVDB highway cold range is very much a worst case scenario , in the coldest of temperatures , in the uk its unlikely to be that cold for very long, butother countries would easily be that cold frequently , so most of the time even in the coldest of winter in the uk you wont get range that low , but it is a possibility.

Our car has a wltp range of 250 miles , evdb states a cold highway range of 165 miles, and a warm highway range of 210 miles. In reality in winter the range drops to about 180-190 miles , in summer its about 210-220 miles.

Good point both. Thanks.  I think what shocked me was the difference between the quoted (WLTP) range of 250 miles and the worst case scenario of having to stop to recharge every 100 miles. As you say it probably wouldn’t be that bad in practice and if it’s just me in the car I don’t really mind having a few more stops. More of a pain if we’ve got the whole family in the car and are trying to get the journey done as quickly as possible though.

I think this is one of the issues with EVs (and cars in general really). We tend to buy cars based on the most challenging scenario we might face rather than day to day. For every day use (if you can charge at home) an EV (even with a fairly low range) should be fine. Cheaper to run than an ICE car and you probably wouldn’t need to visit a garage/charger for months on end. But we get put off by the fact that it would be a pain for that one journey we do where an ICE car is better.

My most “challenging” journey would be the annual Christmas trip from Aberdeenshire to East Anglia. Just over 500 miles, most of which is dual carriageway or motorway and of course it’s cold in December. So for that journey I should look at the “Highway-Cold Weather” range and that’s only 140 miles. Ouch! Of course you wouldn’t really want to drop much below 10% to avoid anxiety and once it reaches 80% the charging seems to slow to a trickle. So really you need to look at 70% of that for the distance between charges, which is only 100 miles. That would get pretty annoying.

For comparison my petrol (AWD) car can easily go 300 miles between refuel stops all year round. That’s more than I need, but means that the car is hardly ever the reason why I stop on a long journey. In practice 200 miles would probably be fine, but 100 is pretty woeful. OK, I could just choose a more sensible car, but I’m far too old to start getting sensible now :)

Only 300 miles!  My diesel will do 700 miles on a tank – for that one trip I’ve done in 5 years when I went to the Home Counties & back…

C’mon, you’re choosing a car based on a once a year event, that’s like only buying a house big enough to cover for the annual in-laws visit.

Range anxiety is real…but only for people who have never actually driven a long journey in an EV.

Charger availability anxiety on those notoriously busy travel days like Christmas Eve or hot bank holidays is real though but it’s getting better every day.

Yes, as I said further up the thread, I’m not actually opposed to just renting an ICE car for the odd trip where it would be the better option. It’s not as though you save much in “fuel” given the cost of public fast chargers. And, to be honest, the wife and kids took the train last time we went south anyway and I just plodded down in the car with the dogs so we had something to use while we were down there. I don’t think it helps the sales of EVs that the WLTP range is so far away from what people report in practice though.

I had a look at the Smart #1 Brabus edition (because I’m basically a child and we’ve driven AWD cars for donkeys years). WLTP range 249 miles. That should be enough to cover all of my needs. What’s all the fuss about?

So I had a look on ev-database.org No idea how accurate they are. They quote “real world” ranges for cars that aren’t released yet, which is a bit of a worry, but at least they try to give realistic figures. They reckon the “real range” is more like 200 miles. Not so good, but then it gets much worse.

My most “challenging” journey would be the annual Christmas trip from Aberdeenshire to East Anglia. Just over 500 miles, most of which is dual carriageway or motorway and of course it’s cold in December. So for that journey I should look at the “Highway-Cold Weather” range and that’s only 140 miles. Ouch! Of course you wouldn’t really want to drop much below 10% to avoid anxiety and once it reaches 80% the charging seems to slow to a trickle. So really you need to look at 70% of that for the distance between charges, which is only 100 miles. That would get pretty annoying.

I’ve got one of those, never seen another out in the wild! Did Bathgate to Blackpool in February or March, cold rainy day. Had only just got it so had a huge amount of range anxiety, stopped once on the way down for a quick lunch break length charge, very slow charge for an hour in Blackpool and a couple of coffee break charge stops on the way home. Didn’t need the last one but it’s a decent A road last section and a charge meant I could stick it in Brabus mode. Realistically even on the coldest of days I’d be pretty confident on 150+ miles comfortable range, still not the best but not as bad as your calculations.

First thought was you’re probably being a bit negative on the range but re-reading it you’re probably not far off in terms of leaving a bit of safety and getting a quick charge, doubt it would be quite as bad as 100 miles but probably a sensible worst case to plan to.

It’s an absolute riot to drive, there is zero wheel spin it just launches and no one knows what they are so never expects it to go like that.

Mine very rarely goes long distances so haven’t tested it in the warmer weather but it shows about 190 miles from 90% and it seems to be pretty realistic.

I don’t think it helps the sales of EVs that the WLTP range is so far away from what people report in practice though.

Car manufacturers have always represented their car in ultra idealised statistics long before EVs were a thing. It used to be MPG at a constant 56mph on a rolling road with no air resistance.
Now it’s range because people don’t yet have a grasp on what EV efficiency numbers mean to them.
Is 3 m/kwh good or bad? The average punter in the street has no idea.

To be fair, some manufacturers are more honest than others.  My car has a WLTP of 321 miles and if we had a week of 25°c a d I turned the aircon off, that would be achievable.  getting 300 miles ish in the summer and 270-ish in the winter. It’s plenty

Thanks @stevemtb I doubt I’ll actually buy anything for a while yet and may have moved onto something else by then, but we had a Smart ForFour many years ago and I’ve always had a bit of a soft spot for the brand. The Brabus versions were always bonkers and didn’t even try to make sense really, which I like.

I don’t think it’s a matter of manufacturers’ honesty it’s just that the test protocols flatter some vehicles more than others. It’s the same with ICEs. Small not very powerful cars will be driven by users much as they are in the test. However something like a Jag will go through much of the test procedure just tickling the trottle, whereas owners will use more of the performance available and get lousy economy compared to the test results.

I have no complaints about the range/economy of any recent cars I’ve driven. Drive gently and smoothly within the speed limits and I get pretty much what is claimed for that type of road in the tests in Summer. Less in Winter whether ICE or EV. EV owners might find they clear out the garage so they can keep the car in it in Winter because starting with a warm car/battery makes a big difference – I have.

Great, so now I have to build a garage too :)

I think one of the big issues with EV adoption is that we tend to compare them to ICE cars and focus on where they may be worse but forget that we live in a society that has been built around ICE cars. If we’d all grown up driving EVs and charging them outside wherever we lived then the idea of buying a car that you had to take to one of these newfangled garages miles away to refuel would seem bonkers.

They are a different transport solution really and require a different way of thinking.

One thing that I probably need to rethink myself is my obsession with AWD. I’ve always liked this for traction/safety reasons but with EVs a twin-motor seems to be more about bonkers performance than anything else. Of course, while I certainly don’t need that performance, knowing that it exists does make it hard to resist.

I doubt there’s a current EV that doesn’t have ESP/traction control. I find that at least matches cars of old with a limited slip diff – and beats older generation 4 wheel drives unless they had diff locks. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised with a current EV on Crossclimates in a whole variety of conditions.

 Of course, while I certainly don’t need that performance, knowing that it exists does make it hard to resist.

You’d think so but that’s not been my experience.
The smooth power delivery and the quiet, effortless nature of the whole driving experience makes me drive slower and more calmly than I ever did in any ICE car.
It’s a more relaxed vibe and you don’t want to harsh your buzz with aggression.

EV owners might find they clear out the garage so they can keep the car in it in Winter because starting with a warm car/battery makes a big difference – I have.

Or precondition the car before leaving whilst its on the charger. Teslas heat or cool the battery when you do this- some other makes might.

EV owners might find they clear out the garage so they can keep the car in it in Winter because starting with a warm car/battery makes a big difference

really ?  I reckon pressing the cabin preconditioning button on the phone app for my i4 around 10 mins of so before getting into it on a sub zero frosty morning takes maybe 15 miles tops off the range, and costs about 30 pence.

Car is fully defrosted, cabin is at 20 degrees or whatever I previously had it at, drivers seat and steering wheel are heated and warm.

This is one of the many joys of the EV experience.

Car manufacturers have always represented their car in ultra idealised statistics long before EVs were a thing.

Nah, just following the standards laid down by governments over the years. WLTP (and all the other standards over the years!) can only *really* be used to compare cars in the same sort of class/size/weight/performance.

It used to be MPG at a constant 56mph on a rolling road with no air resistance.

I’ve looked through reports going back to the 1980’s and never seen that!

The i4 battery unit weighs 500kg. Now work out how much energy is required to get that from say zero to 12°C. Your cabin might be warm but the battery will take much longer to warm up.

Driving the Zoe out of the garage at 12°C everything works fine right from the off. Leave it outside in sub zero temperatures and even after 10 minutes of pre-heating the battery is still so cold there’s a big red warning to say the regen isn’t working, and the range is lousy.

I’ve looked through reports going back to the 1980’s and never seen that!

Exaggeration for comic effect innit.  The point being that the advertised figures have always been at odds with the real ones because people don’t drive in the standardised way. It’s not just an EV thing.

Now work out how much energy is required to get that from say zero to 12°C.

I have no interest in doing that, overnight charging on IO is so cheap and I rarely need to use more than 50% of the range in a day.  On such an occasion, after letting it warm up and driving it around on a typical cold West of Scotland icy, sub or near zero winters day, it still has 250 miles worth of range if starting off at 95%

even after 10 minutes of pre-heating the battery is still so cold there’s a big red warning to say the regen isn’t working, and the range is lousy.

sounds more like a shortfall in your car than a general EV thing ! :)

I doubt there’s a current EV that doesn’t have ESP/traction control. I find that at least matches cars of old with a limited slip diff – and beats older generation 4 wheel drives unless they had diff locks. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised with a current EV on Crossclimates in a whole variety of conditions.

Interesting point. I noticed that most single motor EVs tend to be RWD and my experience of RWD cars is mostly watching older BMWs sliding all over the Aberdeenshire roads every time the snow fell. In truth we don’t get the heavy snow that we used to get 20 years ago when we abandoned 2WD cars. The roads are also more busy that they were in those days and whether you can make progress or not often depends as much on what everyone else is doing as your own car. Maybe a 2WD car with decent tyres and decent traction control would cope OK. Especially with a shovel and some snow traction mats in the boot for those country lanes. Still seems like a bit of a backward step but probably does require a bit more thought.

The smooth power delivery and the quiet, effortless nature of the whole driving experience makes me drive slower and more calmly than I ever did in any ICE car.
It’s a more relaxed vibe and you don’t want to harsh your buzz with aggression.

Another interesting point. As I hurtle towards 60 myself I am finally starting to realise that I don’t actually need my car to do the same. When I jump in my wife’s little Ignis (or my son’s little 1.2L Swift) I do find the lack of power strangely refreshing. No choice but to just take it easy. Give me a smooth quiet car with CarPlay and an awesome stereo and maybe I could live without bonkers power. Maybe :)

Give me a smooth quiet car with CarPlay and an awesome stereo and maybe I could live without bonkers power.

The point is, you don’t have to live without the bonkers power. You just don’t really feel the need to wield it because you don’t have anything to prove.

That’s an interesting question. Which EV has the best audio system?

sounds more like a shortfall in your car than a general EV thing ! :)

Drive your car up to a ski resort in January, leave it outside then get back to us with how much range you have and the amount of regen braking on tap. It’s quite handy having a warning about limited regen because when you’re used to one-pedal driving it’s a bit odd having to brake for bends.

err, no thanks, but thanks for the suggestion.

100kw motor is plenty for the 99.8% of driving that I do. Occasionally I’ll use the normal driving mode and I might engage sport mode on special occasions.

Which EV has the best audio system?

The posh version of my povvy spec Genesis GV60 is supposed to have a top notch audio system with active noise cancellation.
The lack of engine noise and vibration makes even a bog standard setup sound better than it would in an ICE car.

My Q4 Quattro has 310hp, so fairly quick. I’ve always had fast ICE, previous car was a Cupra and an AMG Merc.

I’ve said this before, but I drove the ICE cars too quick. Long journeys I’d always be in the right lane waiting for people to move out of my way. The EV is just a totally different driving experience. Way less stressful, it’s almost serene. I arrive to work after my 30 mile commute less stressed. I actually enjoy the drive now. In fact, I look forward to my long trip I do every month.
For me personally, even though I know the power is there, I’m much more content to enjoy the relaxing nature of the drive. Honestly there is a fight between me and missus about who is going to drive as we both want to do it. She’s always asking if she can use the EV, she has an ICE still and much prefers the EV.

Even stopping for a coffee to charge up is fairly relaxing….as much as a motorway service station can be.

If my EV was the single motor 200hp version I honestly don’t think I would notice.

Best sound system, possibly:  Renault Scenic techno option “iconic” which has Harman Kardon audio.

In answer to the best sound system in an ev question…..

My Q4 had the Audi Sound Cube……10 Sonos speakers. No idea how good it is compared to others, but I like it. I’m sure there are better or others similar…..

https://electrichasgoneaudi.net/models/q4-e-tron/technology/soundsystem/

Here’s a shedload of EV audio system reviews .

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSf9U9LikGNXzWx1Ub91xSCuHcN7fG7n4&si=cPes07Lx02hMWjav

I’d imagine that it’s all totally subjective anyway and they all sound pretty good to the average ear

In answer to the best sound system in an ev question…..

clearly the one that makes vroom vroom noises in Sport mode :)

Thanks. I should have realised that there would be a youtube channel dedicated to reviewing car audio systems :) To be honest, given the sort of punky stuff I listen to I probably shouldn’t be worrying about it too much. I basically just want it to go loud without distorting any more than it did when it was recorded :)

I find the power/speed the complete opposite a lot of the time, no one expects the Smart to do 0-60 under 4 seconds and I find a lot of enjoyment surprising them.

Completely agree on the commuting comments though, podcast or audiobook on, dynamic cruise, occasionally grip the wheel harder when it complains at having to do all the work. Lovely and relaxing on what’s normally a stressful activity.

13 speaker Beats stereo should also feature highly on the audio systems question, but not as good (loud) as I’d hoped it would be. Came with a blown speaker and all the settings turned up to max so suspect someone in the delivery chain also wanted to see how loud it would go.

I’m not bothered about a traffic lights grand prix (quite the opposite) but do like the instant and totally reliable go when feeding into traffic at roundabouts or pulling out into gaps in traffic on a major road.

You’d think so but that’s not been my experience.

The smooth power delivery and the quiet, effortless nature of the whole driving experience makes me drive slower and more calmly than I ever did in any ICE car

completely agree…

I’ve had a 200bhp civic type-r, a 180bhp skoda Octavia (remapped)..and both of those were fun to drive, but felt like they needed ‘work’.

The Polestar has 476bhp (which, frankly, is bonkers!) but apart from the odd sprightly overtake, or ‘rocket launch’s from traffic lights (as my daughter calls it) it’s the most gentle car to drive!

Also..has a Harmon Kardon sound system which is, quite frankly, fantastic!

DrP

Re lack of Regen braking at 100% charge – in my old ETron this was noticeable but it’s not in the i4 – either BMW allows a bit of extra charge into the battery for this or the friction brakes are blended in well and applied automatically (the brakes and Regen are all electronically controlled so it can do this).

Re speed – as others have said it’s nice to have a lot of acceleration available when needed or for occasional fun but 99% of the time I drive slower now than in previous ICE cars.

Re range and charging – it’s a non issue on the i4 due to its range. It’s got 74% charge right now and we’ve got to drive from Devon to Cambridge tomorrow – a 5+ hr drive which will have us stopping at least once possibly terce for comfort and toilet stops. The car however has just about got enough charge to do it without stopping. I’ll give it a quick 5-10 kw.hr squirt at a convenient point just for a bit of margin but that could be at any one of about 40+ rapid chargers along the way so a total non issue.