the demise of decent customers (lbs content)

I love the idea that there’s nothing wrong with the shops, it’s just us :o)

SFB – there are some good shops and some poor ones. However some STwers idea of what a bike shop should do is laughable.

OP here…
i thought id re-post as its seems to have divided a few…some facts about what happens at a normal lbs

1- i only get next day delivery from one company.hope(because were a hope tech centre) i deal with around 40 active accounts/suppliers..everyone else takes 2-3 days(maybe cos were in scotland)

2- margins on all kit varies between 20-50%…ironically a $3500 frame depending on the supplier has the least margin…all the cheap consumable stuff that most of you wouldnt touch has the highest margin

3- a brake/gear cable of the stainless steel variety rrp is $3.99..its branded and we never have them fail(check the biggest bike purchaser in the uk what they charge,halfords, as theyre dearer and its not a branded item)

4- i, like mark at the tbc has probably not spent a huge amount of time worrying if his mates have been buying bike kit elsewhere…i accepted this a long time ago.but if they do want to get something ill do them the best deal i can(cos were mates)

5- theyres only one guy in scotland i know of who has taken a rohloff apart…i seem to remember it took him a while,like 2 days.id never do it and would happyily send it off to the supplier to fix(not cost affective or practical to fix)anyway i thought they never went wrong?

6- forks/shox we also send away as i dont have the tooling,the service is very good from the sorters.we offer the free service of taking the forks off and putting them back on…again i cant recall anyone else in scotland who does servicing in house on forks…we do however offer servicing on brakes(any) bikes,hubs,wheel building…

7- the large internet firms are getting bigger,now have supply companies and probably do more business than the majority of our suppliers(except maybe madison)theyre not going anywhere….but is theyre service that good? if i thought i couldnt compete on service i may have jacked it in a while ago…

ive been at this for over 17 years now and love the trade….i have a great rapport with all the reps i deal with,ditto with a lot of regular customers..in the last year the shop has got a real community feel about it with folk just hanging out and drinking coffe/tea,chatting bikes.sometinmes they buy something somtimes they dont..but they’ll always think about us when they are in the market! if this is grooming then im a groomer!
the most successful lbs in my view are in the states and this is what they do to get more people to engage with them…it seems to work…im not caring about the negativity on here cos im confident i do a good job and theyres as much passion here for the lowly lbs as decriers…

chris

If you enter a shop with parts you have bought online and expect them to fit them, be prepared to be told to see your online seller for fitting and warranty help.

If a shop told me this they would not get my custom again. What on earth is wrong with buying parts online and asking your LBS to fit them? They’re getting the profit margin out of the labour, which I suspect is more than the profit on some odd part that I went to the trouble of sourcing myself.

LBS shops will get my custom is I want to buy a new bike. LBS shops will get my custom for workshop jobs I can’t/don’t want to do. LBS shops will get my custom if I happen to be in there and see something nice and shiny. LBS shops will get my custom buying stuff I need to try on (shoes, helmets, clothes etc). However if I know the part I need and I can order it for delivery to me without having to get in the car/on the bike then I go on the internet. Simple.

TBH I’ve had cracking service from Wiggle and other internet retailers.

Which shop would take a pair of trail running shoes back that had been worn 10+ times because if a fit issue that wouldn’t go away?

Wiggle did and for that reason, they are my first port of internet call for most items.

But yes, the LBS will always have it’s place. They just need to adapt to, not fight, the evolution of the bike industry.

So many folk miss the point. The type of customer that wants XTR off the shelf, at discount, fitted for free is not a customer a bike shop wants or needs. No profit in them

That’s really missing the point. Nobody expects free fitting. A discount is nice (note; NOT price-matching), but again not expected if the kit is urgently required.
If your name isn’t Donald, why else would you call yourself don? It’s a widely used name is it not?

hora

I saw some of the salaries offered for bike shop managers. Now considering they’ll be selling kit into the thousands paying a manager peanuts is ridiculous. I remember speaking to one ex-Manager who told me about the hours he was expected to work for 25k a year. **** that.

I doubt bikeshop staff get much more than the basic/minimum salary either.

Not much incentive yet they are expected to show ‘love for their hobbie’ (with one day off in the week to ride.

People should bear this in mind every single time they decide to post something slating a shop or it’s staff.

We expect bike shop staff to work for pennies, but be experts in their field, or at least more skilled and knowledgeable than a given enthusiast who spends all of his waking day researching their hobby and most of his free time indulging in said hobby/obsession. And ironically they probably get little or no time to fart about on the internet or indeed ride bikes.

If you enter a shop with parts you have bought online and expect them to fit them, be prepared to be told to see your online seller for fitting and warranty help.

If a shop told me this they would not get my custom again. What on earth is wrong with buying parts online and asking your LBS to fit them? They’re getting the profit margin out of the labour, which I suspect is more than the profit on some odd part that I went to the trouble of sourcing myself.

Absolutely – would they refuse to fit it if it were a present from someone, a second hand item, something you’d had off another bike? At the end of the day, if they want to absorb some or all workshop charges when doing a supply / fit, that’s their prerogative – that cost is covered somewhere though, either through their charges for other jobs (fit only) or in the mark up on the products they sell.

If your name isn’t Donald, why else would you call yourself don? It’s a widely used name is it not?

Answer. 😆

forks/shox we also send away as i dont have the tooling,the service is very good from the sorters.we offer the free service of taking the forks off and putting them back on…again i cant recall anyone else in scotland who does servicing in house on forks…”

Hey chris/joe – you don’t need a great deal of kit, we got a talas needle and everyfink here and send only the truly gubbed set of Pikes back to Fishers for instance. Fox done here all in a day turn around.
You should do it. Call James here tomorrow if you want any pointers.

Hora – i can only think of two people in our group of regulars that bought a bike off us. One was a Yeti and the other a Spicy. I actually like that the guys have other kit and use other shops – they freely admit they use CRC etc in fact i send them there sometimes when i know i cant.

There is such a cool mix of bikes and kit out on the rides it gives you a chance to develop your knowledge of stuff other than what you sell. This is a good thing – plus ultimately we are a retail business and the fact is we have to stay sharp to compete for peoples limited spend. We are in competition with people selling plasmas and kitchens and holidays and other life stuff – that’s what we concentrate on rather than churning out product for what is for us an unsustainable margin we choose to sell products that work for us and allow us to run a business.

One thing from previous page – do people really sell above RRP? Apart from the odd innocent mistake and un-noticed supplier price re-alignment this doesn’t really go on does it?

Also, nobody has mentioned the “Cycle to work scheme” . Soul destroying, and with a 10% commission out of the bike shop’s margin despite the extra admin, holding onto a bike and accs often for months. Nightmare.
And I should mention that a lot of bike shop staff are on minimum wage, so a customer who earns £50k bitching about not being able to get a sale bike on c2w is sometimes just too much…
Before I get moaned at for “if you don’t like it then move” statements, I have worked in the bike trade for 11 years, and overall I have enjoyed it, but I am in the process of changing lifestyle and will never work in retail again… sweet

…I have worked in the bike trade for 11 years, and overall I have enjoyed it, but I am in the process of changing lifestyle and will never work in retail again… sweet

Ditto that. Sometimes having a fat c**t telling you that your labour rates are too high, that they can get components cheaper from a dodgy grey importer but expect them fitted for next to nothing (before screaming off in a company car leaving you with nothing but the reek of meat-sweats mixed with expensive cologne) does tend to make one see red.

Well i,m new here and just spent an hour reading that lot !

Some very sensible answers to some serious questioning and the odd stupid answer too !

I spend a fortune on my passion as i,m sure many people on here do as well, I cannot find enough time to ride my very expensive passion so i rely heavily on my LBS ! I,ve just purchased some RF Six c bars and got a tenner off RRP, i still paid £4 more than CRC but i fitted them in the shop and i got a coffee for my rouble !

I was in the shop an hour and a half
The phone never stopped ringing and some cheeky Mo-Fo came in to try some ENDURA overtrousers on just so he could get the correct size before ordering on line……WTF

If i,m at work like i am now sciving and want something specific i tend to go online and order bits as well but thats clearly taking the P!SS.

I,m of the opinion that the LBS is a business and for that reason it needs to make money ! If my boiler packs in i dont get the cheapest plumber to come round and haggle with him i pay him “reluctantly” cos i,m from Yorkshire !
At the end of the day when i get my pay packet no one takes any money off me !
Thank God !

If someone wants to try on a product before purchasing online, this is called a sales opportunity.
The desire to buy the product is evident, the store just needs to negotiate with the customer.
As said previously 5% of something is better than 100% of nothing.
The internets faceless store has given the LBS an opportunity to do what they should do best, this should be embraced not feared.

i remember in my repping days watching a nameless mech in a shop dismantle some forks in front of me whilst chatting/making tea..

cant remember what forks they were but do remember them launching thru the ceiling into the flat above..thought to myself then why do shops service forks? we do service simple ones im just talking about the fox/dh forks..

Like Mark says, forks aren’t a black art and worth a go. Practice on your own and when you’re confidant move onto others.

We don’t get too many bad customers- there’s a few that go elsewhere for bits and some are just a nuisance but they tend to have big old German city bikes which can, quite frankly, f*ck off.

You don’t get bad customers though… you just need to qualify them better.

Work out what it is they have walked into your store for in the first 60 seconds and then you will be fine. Ask the right questions – especially the clothes and shoes people. You will find the right questions will make the ‘right’ customers. Don’t fear people, they have walked into your shop with one of two intentions:
1. To buy something to do with a bike now
2. To buy something to do with a bike at some point in the next 3 months (usually).

They are not a nuisance – they are what keeps the doors open, without them you don’t have a job.

It’s only really regulars that use online sometimes- we just can’t compete, we don’t have their buying power. I don’t mind it, it’s all about choice.

But Ms Fitzroy and her Batavus still get on my nerves!

It’s only really regulars that use online sometimes- we just can’t compete, we don’t have their buying power. I don’t mind it, it’s all about choice

Look at your range and pick stuff you don’t have to compete on so much.

Don

So they are apparently providing a good service to the flocks, and an unacceptable service to a discerning customer like you. Where’s the problem?

Nope – nice troll 😉 – the flocks are getting shorn, but the shops would do better by taking a long view.

TJ re times to wait for servicing etc. If most garages can plan their staffing and schedules to do a hell of a lot better in response time – I don’t see why LBSs cannot. I don’t mind paying the going rate per hour, but I do mind being kept waiting 3 weeks for a 30 minute task.

There do seem to be LBSs who take a pride in their work and the service they offer, and others which are complacent and don’t really care, or who don’t know what their minimum-wage slaves are up to.

Ive been reading this over the past 15 mins and i think its all bloody nuts people should just count themselves lucky to have a local bike shop

the closest proper bike shop (i.e not halfrauds) to me is a 35 mile round trip and even then its a bloody evans!!

I dont live in the sticks i live in a large town in the central belt of scotland its **** nuts I would love a LBS

Ok, London shops only, but an interesting ‘Mystery Shopper’ article on Bike Biz, good variety of shops as well:
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/33009/BikeBizs-Mystery-Shopper-does-west-london

Don Simon:I don’t work in a shop.

Then what is it you are referring to in all your posts? No need to be cryptic a simple explanation would be best.

Don Simon… you still haven’t really explained

I still stand by what I said about making you wait, if you push me to drop my prices, I’ll make you wait for collection regardless of whether it’s in stock or not.

you half explained it by saying that you would keep your stock item and order a new one, but i doubt very much if i’m the only one who got the very strong signal that this is not what you meant at all. Both from this and your other posts