The contact-tracing app, accuracy?

Do patients in ICU have mobile phones with them and, if so, would it not be sensible for them to have the app disabled?

I’ve not tried the Pause function but there is an option to set a reminder when you use it.

Some might, other staff (also wearing PPE) definitely will. I just used an ICU patient as an example but we have C+ve patients on all types of ward and because visiting is now blocked they all have phones as it’s the only way to communicate with rellies

I’ve had the app running all day since the day of launch. This morning I opened the app to surprisingly find out I have to self isolate for ‘another 8 days’? Yet a no point was I informed that I need to self isolate at all.

I work from home, the only contact with the outside world is indirectly via my kids and their school. So I’m not sure how and when I’ve come into contact with anyone and I’m certainly not sure why I’ve been instructed to isolate via a count down only and no other form of notification.

For the last six days I had no idea I should be self isolating (as should my wife and kids) and I that I have potentially been in contact with the virus.

In order to establish the facts the only way I can see forward is to book a test (taking up precious resources) Luckily I’ve managed to book a test this for afternoon. Whatever the outcome I can establish some facts and respond accordingly based on facts (entering the results into the app), and not due a potential bug in the app that might have randomly determined that I should self isolate for no reason at all.

The NHS Trust here has simply told the staff to switch the app off while at work. I’m not sure if that applies to visitors/relatives

I’ve had the app running all day since the day of launch. This morning I opened the app to surprisingly find out I have to self isolate for ‘another 8 days’? Yet a no point was I informed that I need to self isolate at all.

What would be useful is an ‘all events’ or ‘all notifications’ screen just in case you swipe one away by accident. Good luck with the test.

anyone know why the app doesnt let you see the quantity of contacts it has registered.

so for example, last night there was a group of six in the pub, three have the app… it would be reassuring if when they went home, they were able to see how many contact points had been registered, three would indicate just within the group, four would mean that despite social distancing an app from another group made contact…..

anyone know why the app doesnt let you see the quantity of contacts it has registered.

I found a screen where it listed the times of scans it had done, and no of contacts but frustratingly can’t find it now. On Android.

I can only think I tapped a notification from the app and it took me there. For a while, I had a persistent notification saying it was scanning. That’s now gone.

I found a screen where it listed the times of scans it had done, and no of contacts but frustratingly can’t find it now. On Android.

Maybe its here:
On the opening screen go to About this app.
Then down to Manage my data.

All the venues you logged into are there.

Maybe its here:…

The screen I found was different – it actually had a list of scans with timestamps with some other info.

The screen I found was different – it actually had a list of scans with timestamps with some other info.

Sounds like a bug.

In the context of the app a list of contacts is irrelevant to the user. They are just inputs into the algorithm which is what ultimately decides.

In my opinion of course.

I found a screen where it listed the times of scans it had done, and no of contacts but frustratingly can’t find it now. On Android.

On Android here and I had noticed that too. It was basically a list of all the scans it had done and times. Can’t find it on the app anymore now, but I did update it so perhaps its been removed?

it was in a notification i got when it told me i’d had the app running for 7 days, along with information on how to delete the data it is storing and some other stuff very generally about how the app works. not a bug as far as i’m aware as it was well presented.

On Android go to settings, then Google to find the list of scans over the last 14 days

I feel left out now.
Not that I’ve been anywhere really. The worrying thing is it shows me as having been in a pub on Monday from 11:45 to midnight. It doesn’t take that long to drink a cup of coffee.

On Android go to settings, then Google to find the list of scans over the last 14 days

That’s the screen, ta.

Some info here on false alerts. Seems the Google/Apple API sends alerts that you should ignore – only take notice of what the NHS app tells you.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54389083

Monday from 11:45 to midnight. It doesn’t take that long to drink a cup of coffee

There’s no way to sign out of a venue. The app just signs you out at midnight. Seems daft to me, why not let you sign out when you leave?

Android go to settings, then Google to find the list of scans

I found that page, it says “This shows requests made by apps to check for potential exposure…” I don’t know what that means, apps on my phone making a request to the Google interface, or apps on other phones making a request to mine? It’s showing ‘requests’ when the phone’s been in the house with no other phones near it.

Scottish app. If it throws a self isolate message will that person get a phone call?

Scottish app. If it throws a self isolate message will that person get a phone call?

No, they don’t have your phone number – you will get a notification on your phone, but not a call.

Of course if the person who exposed you knows they had contact with you and your contact details, or there are venue/event contact details, you may get both.

Bugger that’s true.

If the app has a “last contact” date I assume that that’s the last time the two phones interacted.

@Greybeard

Android go to settings, then Google to find the list of scans

I found that page, it says “This shows requests made by apps to check for potential exposure…” I don’t know what that means, apps on my phone making a request to the Google interface, or apps on other phones making a request to mine? It’s showing ‘requests’ when the phone’s been in the house with no other phones near it.

It’s your phone making a request to the Google Interface. There’s nowhere to see where your phone has shared a contact with another phone.

The app (broadly) works by periodically generating a unique id and sharing that with other phones running the app. So your phone ends up with a list of the unique ids of people you’ve been in contact with; and a list of the unique ids you’ve generated to share with other people.

If someone tests positive then the unique ids they’ve generated are uploaded to the NHS servers – so the NHS have a list of IDs from everyone who has tested positive.

Your phone every so often downloads this entire list and checks whether any of the other people’s IDs it has stored match any in this list. The page you’re looking at shows when your phone did this.

There are refinements around what the phone does when it gets a match around signal strength and contact duration (which your phone stores); and around how long IDs are kept for (10 days after a positive test maybe).

Thanks, sl200. The list isn’t really useful information, then, apart from knowing that it’s working. Where there are several entries with the same time, it must be just trying to download the list but the phone didn’t have a connection.

So after panic about isolation, the missus giving me evils about my mysterious contact and the unpleasantness of a test. I eventually get through to track and trace folk in Scotland to be told. Unless we phone you just ignore the isolation message. We’ll.thats dandy for me but there many folk who would be down a day’s pay (or even a fortnight) because they followed the instructions. So do I follow app instructions or Steve from track and trace?

I’ve had the app running all day since the day of launch. This morning I opened the app to surprisingly find out I have to self isolate for ‘another 8 days’? Yet a no point was I informed that I need to self isolate at all.

@chipsngravy I’ve just had this explained to me by someone who had the same thing.

It’s 14 days from when you were in contact with the person who’s tested positive. But it might take 6 days for that positive test, so you are asked to isolate for the remaining time. Think that makes sense 🤔 Which is why we need quicker testing.

Unless we phone you just ignore the isolation message.

That’s very bad advice. The app is a de-centralised system. Track and Trace Scotland have no idea whether the app has detected you’ve been in contact with someone, and can’t use info from the app to work out whether to call you. There is no point at all running the app if you ignore the isolation message.

That’s very bad advice

Yes bad advice. NHS liaison with council has confirmed it.
Although the app is a blunt tool also. I haven’t been near an infected person. There’s only been one locally in 10 days and I know who it is I also know I don’t know them socially and have not been in close contact.

Teachers now being told to switch the app off.

BBC News – ‘App thought I’d catch Covid through neighbour’s floor’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54418278

Well that’s interesting.

This week’s lottery numbers are……

Having read the article on the bbc site I checked the Bluetooth on my phone and there is a JBL flip2 ‘not connected’ which obviously belongs to my downstairs neighbors
There will be quite a few people getting pinged in similar circumstances.

Sometimes you just can’t technology your way out of a problem.

NEW: The contact tracing app has been running for two weeks. The Saturday after it was launched it recorded 1.5m check-ins

So how many alerts has it sent about outbreaks in pubs and restaurants?

One. Just onehttps://t.co/cEX241eRrn

— Rowland Manthorpe (@rowlsmanthorpe) October 9, 2020

I think the fact the phone can see other Bluetooth devices in range isn’t the issue, as the app is mesuring how far away they are from signal stregnth, not if they exist at all. So surely, if there’s a floor/wall in the way it will work in your favour (the app will think they a FURTHER away as signal strength will be lower)??

Did you read the beeb.

Man shielding in flat gets alert to self isolate because his upstairs neighbour has a positive test ?

I thought it was annonymous / you don’t get told where the contact took place?!

Did you read the beeb.

Man shielding in flat gets alert to self isolate because his upstairs neighbour has a positive test ?

It’s not entirely unreasonable. The “victim” here has been leaving his flat and using the same communal stairwells / hand rails and communal doors as the positive patient. There has been a number of outbreaks within flats / tenements due to the communal nature of living. Even if he was shielding and not going out out, they would still have to use the communal areas to take their rubbish into the bins.

Remind me again how the app works ? Isn’t it looking for 10-15minute close contact ?

So in two weeks, of all the responsible people who download and use the app properly – who are probably also being responsible about distancing and sanitiser etc etc – there’s only been 1 link to a pub.

Given delays getting tests and then delays getting the results, I’m not exactly stunned by the headline, to be honest.

I thought it was annonymous / you don’t get told where the contact took place?!

It is, but I assume he talks to his neighbour and is assuming the alert is linked – might not be.

Remind me again how the app works ? Isn’t it looking for 10-15minute close contact ?

More complex than that I think. It can be close contact for a shorter time, or repeated, shorter contacts.

school teachers being told to not use the app.

so that leaves the most obvious transmission vector into my house unlinked to me.

– sounds like hospital staff and police are getting similar lines.

Ok i work from home and rarely leave the house these days – when i do i do as i always have even pre covid – minimise my contact time with others and also post covid wear my mask and sanitise wash my hands.

all of which works as both a defence against others having it – and me spreading it.

The app seems to clinging on to the fact it will catch folk who are not doing the above and who need to have it to get into the pub/Gym more so as many of our front line workers are being instructed not to use it, Its a feather in a cap but it doesnt seem like a particularly useful nor effective one if you exclude those most likely to be exposed to it

As an aside – as a teacher the wife is part of some study where shes getting anti body testing done – it doesnt change any precautions taken by the school as the testing is not proven 100% accurate but i guess it gives the government guidance data to see just how prevalent it has been in schools.

there’s only been 1 link to a pub.

As I understand it, there are several independent functions in the App. Links to a venue are separate from contact notices in the App, as the contact-detecting bit of the App doesn’t doesn’t know where the contact was, only the relative position of two phones. The App itself doesn’t identify a venue as a source of infection, that has to be done manually by the contact tracers, who only know where the infected person went by asking them after they’ve tested positive. Then the App is used to send a message to the people who scanned in using it.

Writing that, it seems to me that the App would be a lot more useful with less privacy protection. I know that was the original plan, but not whether the change was because the original App didn’t work or because of the privacy issues. Personally, to saves live and save jobs in a pandemic, I’m happy to give up a bit of privacy; I don’t go anywhere or meet anyone I shouldn’t (actually I hardly go anywhere or meet anyone at the moment).