The contact-tracing app, accuracy?

Feels to me like they’ve chucked the app on the table like another dead cat this week. People arguing over downloading and using it is more distraction from the actual problem. But more divide and conquer.

News yesterday ( ft and i are good sources) had study with only 11% quarantining after confirmed contact with positive case, and only 18% self isolating with symptoms. This is the actual problem.

The app is not going to change this. People are saying they would isolate if they had to, then not following through when it happens. Any message from the app is non enforceable, and it isn’t perfect so it will make mistakes. People already ignoring the rules aren’t going to be changed by an unproven phone app, assume a “mistake” and add to the culture of non compliance.

Say what now?

Effectively it’s dead in the water without all of the data it’s of no use at all. Also looks to be another “lets give our mates more money and undermine the NHS ruse”.

Come on, use the app and isolate if required

This ^ but as with this whole CV19 episode you are doing your bit partly to make up for the significant chunk of population who have no internal dialogue apart from the narcissistic voice and a bubble round their head that stops them caring beyond the self.

If everyone followed the guidelines (and the accompanying test/trace was efficient) then cases would stay low and local lockdowns would be at a minimum.

But it’s always somebody else’s fault or problem.
Take some responsibility you idiots!

Say what now?

Another example of Tories putting ideology ahead of people’s lives.

So is that a % of test results that can’t be linked to your app?

Do we know what % CAN be input…?

Only ones that are booked through the app. Seeing as the app has only just launched that will be very few until people start to use it. The issue is till test availability though as one of my colleagues is off with symptoms and tried to book a test through the app only to be told there was nothing available. He’s having a test this afternoon booked via the normal web portal but he knows whatever the result he’ll be told by the app to isolate as there won’t be a code to enter into it. If he tests negative he’ll uninstall the app and be back in work.

Basically one simple thing – compatible codes for tests done without the app’s involvement – means it’s going to be a waste of time for a while. By the time tests are being booked through the app and the code system is working reliably we’ll be well into the winter flu season and it’ll be too late.

Hmmm…

Seems the efficacy of the app is a bit compromised for a while then.

Still, I’ve installed and will use, as that seems like the responsible and grown up thing to do, even if there’s potential for a little personal inconvenience.

I’ve had to install it to get a seat in my local drinking spot, seems to be working okay, but I’ll be turning it off when I leave because I’m not going anywhere with people.

I’m not going anywhere with people.

you live in a hole? Feel like its impossible to somewhere with no people.

Not installing the am is like not wearing a mask its not really there to protect you its there to protect others. But its cool people just be selfish.

I’m going home to Mrs Crikey, i see little point in using the app around my house.

Still, I’ve installed and will use, as that seems like the responsible and grown up thing to do

We’ll have none of that sort of attitude. Internet arguments would just grind to a halt if we all felt like that.

I’m going home to Mrs Crikey, i see little point in using the app around my house.

If you’re worried about the gov’ knowing where you live they already do. Out of interest why do you see little point? Surly its more hassle to turn it off and on than just leaving it on.

Be a bit shit if your semi detached or terraced neighbour on the other wall tested positive…..and you registered as being in contact with them due to proximity….

How do they differentiate that then ?

I’d think there was many houses that have arrangements where back to back sofas make this sort of proximity a reality.

Be a bit shit if your semi detached or terraced neighbour on the other wall tested positive…..and you registered as being in contact with them due to proximity….

I mean if thats your argument that it can go through a wall you could be at a restaurant with another restaurant next door and get a positive test. On that single thought with zero evidence to back it up lets just bin the whole app.

Edit: and it said if the app tells you to isolate, you then get negative test, you still need to isolate until the app gives you the all clear, due to the incubation period.

Wait. This can’t be true, can it?

I thought the whole point of getting tested was because the virus is asymptomatic for a couple of weeks. If the test can’t detect the virus either then there’s zero point in getting tested in the first place.

I suspect you may have misunderstood how the ‘incubation period’ works. Well, rather I sincerely hope you have because it’s pretty grim if you’re right.

mean if thats your argument that it can go through a wall you could be at a restaurant with another restaurant next door and get a positive test. On that single thought with zero evidence to back it up lets just bin the whole app.

Convince me otherwise.

Convince me otherwise.

haha “Convince me otherwise” you think a lot of yourself. Based on your response there is zero point. You created a totally fictional situation based on zero facts. Im not going to debate with someone thats just going to make stuff up.

Au contraire I asked a question you rubbished my question as not having any fact behind it
…it’s a question I asked a question. Hence the question mark. It came to my mind as I was sat on my sofa last night knowing my neighbour is on the other side of the wall sitting on their sofa…..we are within 2 meters technically….

I followed that up with convince me after you also offered zero fact to my question.

Anyway I think the apps flawed majorly in other ways but this was a hypothetical flaw I’m asking if it is actually a flaw.

So as I said. Convince me that my hypothetical situation could not happen.

Convince me that my hypothetical situation could not happen.

The app uses a low energy Bluetooth signal to detect other devices. Go next door and try using your Bluetooth headphones through a solid wall, then consider that the app is using less power than that.

The app uses a low energy Bluetooth signal to detect other devices. Go next door and try using your Bluetooth headphones through a solid wall, then consider that the app is using less power than that.

Thank you. A fact based answer. Rather than a defence/offense akin to that of Dominic Cummings

*Edit. Shit Motorola g8 and aftershock titanium headphones. 12m and 2 brick walls before I lost constant signal a fair bit further down the garden before I lost intermittent. . How much less power ?

Au contraire I asked a question you rubbished my question as not having any fact behind it
…it’s a question I asked a question. Hence the question mark. It came to my mind as I was sat on my sofa last night knowing my neighbour is on the other side of the wall sitting on their sofa…..we are within 2 meters technically….

My answer to your question was just to point that it’s a bit of a moo point and there could be conflicts no matter where you use the app and it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t use it. Aas for your question mark in your “convince me otherwise” reply there was on question mark and that came across a bit condescending and egotistical you could say “a defence/offense akin to that of Dominic Cummings.” But whatever you think one way i think another way not much point in debated it much further than that.

As for the app like everything covid its been developed very quickly I have worked on apps that are less complex, and on a smaller scale that have taken longer to develop – so bugs will be there likely some show stoppers for some people. Conflicts will happen but its about ironing them out quickly. Theoretically this app could have a use base of 10s of millions far too many variables for them to catch them all. Its just a fact of product dev the difference here is everyone has their eyes on it unlike a normal roll out.

OK poor explanation attempt – I’ll try again. The app uses signal strength to estimate the distance between devices – it will be stronger for devices 2m apart in fresh air than devices 2m apart with a wall between them, so the app would think that the devices with a wall between are further apart than they are. (the headphone example didn’t quite work because the signal wasn’t degraded enough to stop data being transmitted, so they keep working)

Unfortunately it will also think that 2 devices in cluttered bags are further apart than they are, or even possibly that 2 devices in a metal tube (like a bus or a train) are closer together than they are.

It’s not a panacea, it’s not foolproof, it might give false contacts or even miss possible contacts, but it’s another tool in the box that could help all of us get back to some sort of normal life a bit quicker than not using it because of whataboutery.

Thank you for the explaintation purist . So it’s working in the realms of between 12m and the middle of the garden and using it to work out distance

That makes much more sense than “just because it’s a moot point”

– yours convinced of Aberdeen.

*No one said I wasn’t using it….you have to to go to many places as pointed out above. ..but when I go out maybe once a week I don’t see the need to have it on when I’m at home..

https://www.bluetooth.com/blog/3-common-mythsabout-bluetooth/

Up to a kilometre in the right conditions, and can go through walls.

https://www.bluetooth.com/learn-about-bluetooth/bluetooth-technology/range/

I think I will let other people alpha test this.

That makes much more sense than “just because it’s a moot point”

Haha, nice little dig there all because I challenged your opinion. If this was a real conversation that’s basically talking about you not too you. Classy.

I really wish i knew of a way to mute/hide people on this forum

Edit . Actually **** it not worth my time

Is this still about me turning it off when I go home?
Why on earth would I be using the covid app in my own house?

There’s me and Mrs C and the cats… FFS

…edited to say that if it gives me a notification that it’s off everytime I pick up my phone it will not be staying long.

https://www.bluetooth.com/blog/3-common-mythsabout-bluetooth/

Up to a kilometre in the right conditions, and can go through walls.

https://www.bluetooth.com/learn-about-bluetooth/bluetooth-technology/range/

I think I will let other people alpha test this.

There is a saying – a little knowledge is dangerous – and you have just proved that very point.

I’ve used some kit that will do those sort of ranges via Bluetooth. It definitely won’t fit in your phone…

There’s me and Mrs C and the cats… FFS

My cat doesn’t have a smart phone, is there a piece of paper he can sign? 🐈

Is this still about me turning it off when I go home?
Why on earth would I be using the covid app in my own house?

Seems sensible, guess you might miss that unexpected visitor, delivery, postman etc. Or if me, more likely I’d forget to turn it back on again when I went out, so I leave it on.

Speaking to a friend on Friday, she’s actively doing the opposite, turns it off when she goes to the supermarket ‘because she doesn’t want the hassle of isolating’. It’s not a work/money thing with her either.

Why on earth would I be using the covid app in my own house?

Why not. It matters not one iota that you have it running in the background and that you’re at home, just leave it on and forget about it. I have it installed, did it as soon as I was able to, and it’s one big advantage is it dramatically speeds up checking into wherever you happen to be, like my regular pub, or the Cafe Nero in town. Previously, I had to scan the QRCode, then find the location, tap in my name, phone number, postcode, etc. Now, I open the NHS app, tap the scan button, scan the huge QRCode, and that’s it, couldn’t be easier or quicker.
I completely forget about it being on my phone until I go somewhere with a laminated sheet with an enormous QRCode and know I need to scan it.
Sorted. 10 million people have apparently downloaded it so far, and without making some big song and dance about it.
Unless you’re up to your ass in QAnon conspiracy shit, or a Republican, or both, you have no reason not to, and every reason to do so.

Speaking to a friend on Friday, she’s actively doing the opposite, turns it off when she goes to the supermarket ‘because she doesn’t want the hassle of isolating’. It’s not a work/money thing with her either.

Posted 11 hours ago

You have to wonder why she bothered downloading it then. The mind boggles.

Cougar, afraid so if I’m reading it correctly.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing-and-tracing/nhs-test-and-trace-if-youve-been-in-contact-with-a-person-who-has-coronavirus/

App tells you to isolate, get negative test, continue to isolate.

You have to wonder why she bothered downloading it then. The mind boggles.

She works in a school, and all staff are expected to install it I think.

Again, I see no reason to have the app running in my house.
I switch it on when I go into places where it may provide information which will be useful, but leave it off when it won’t.

Today I have been mostly walking on the moors; little point in using it.
I then wandered down into the village; little point in using it.
I sat in a bar with two friends; app switched on.
When I left, I turned it off to walk home.

The idea that switching it on and off is some kind of toil, or that I may forget is only applicable to simpletons.

When I go to work I see no cause to use it in my car. I work in a hospital and don’t use my mobile during work hours so again, little point in it being on.

Again, I see no reason to have the app running in my house.
I switch it on when I go into places where it may provide information which will be useful, but leave it off when it won’t.

I guess the question is why you feel the need to do that (turning it off and on)? Do you have security concerns, tracking, or just general distrust? I mean its totally up to you no one can stop you turning off and on just intrigued.

The Scottish app has big writing on the main page saying “you can close this app and it will keep working”

So are people uninstalling it or turning Bluetooth off or do other nations apps work differently?

Living in Scotland and having spent the last 4 days in London, I had to download the England and Wales app as the NHS Scotland doesn’t work here. Fair enough, but the only way to get the England and Wales one to work was to input a fictional home postcode, that of our Air BnB in Watford, as it doesn’t recognise my Scottish one.

Having both Apps on my phone, only one can be enabled at any one time, so later today, once back in Scotland, I’ll have to disable the England and Wales one, in the iPhone settings. I wonder what will happen if the latter one tries to contact in the next week me based on a contact while in England..?

Quick question then, if I walk past someone in the street, outside, fleeting contact of seconds and we both have the app running, the other person later tests positive, does the app then instruct me to self isolate or does the contact have to be for a meaningful duration, e.g. the fable 15 minutes (I appreciate the app probably can’t determine whether we’re indoors or not but there’s a major difference in infection likelihood indoors and out).