The Conservative Party leadership vote…

You’d like to hope that in raising subjects like abortion or the spoilt snowflakiness of people with autism that they’re just appealing to their present electorate – the foaming-at-the-mouth far right headbangers of the Tory membership? That once they get past them they’ll tack back towards something resembling normality? Fat chance!

In the case of these two and the mood of the loons left as Tory MPs I think that’s just not going to happen. This is the real deal. They’re all madder than a bucket of ferrets

I remember when Truss was elected on her totally mental economic agenda, people saying “yeah, but she’s just appealing to the membership, but she won’t actually do anything that unhinged once she’s in power”

That went well. This’ll go the same way. When whichever of these whoppers gets elected, expect constant calls to withdraw from the ECHR, bringing back hanging, feeding immigrants into wood chipping machines and other associated far right lunacy

Let us not forget that mogg was defeated in a democratic election by a man wearing a baked bean balaclava.

The man is political toast

I wonder what it says about British society that a couple of weapons-grade @rseholes like these two feel that their best chance of achieving power is to appeal to the nastiest elements of the electorate who think that people who are disabled have an unfair advantage.

Was Thatcher this bad?

Was Thatcher this bad?

The real irony of this is that although they all claim to idolise her royal handbagness, I don’t doubt for a minute that if she was still around she would absolutely despise them all and be utterly appalled at what the Tory party has become since Brexit

The very idea of leaving the Single Market would have given her a seizure

I wonder what it says about British society that a couple of weapons-grade @rseholes like these two feel that their best chance of achieving power is to appeal to the nastiest elements of the electorate who think that people who are disabled have an unfair advantage.

Ask some of your neighbours, I bet you’ll find more than one who reckon the *disabled have it cushy etc.

* – insert any group here

The real irony of this is that although they all claim to idolise her royal handbagness, I don’t doubt for a minute that if she was still around she would absolutely despise them all and be utterly appalled at what the Tory party has become since Brexit

The very idea of leaving the Single Market would have given her a seizure

..and she had a fierce intellect, and whether you agreed with her or not, she had a cohesive economic strategy and a clear vision of what she wanted to achieve* The current lot have absolutely none of the above, they are chancers saying anything they think might be popular, sixth-form Tories in the same way the Corbyn was a sixth-form socialist.

*I’ve said it before on here, but I was once at an event with Tony Benn and he was asked which modern politician he most admired, and he said Thatcher for basically these reasons

@IHN – I absolutely hated Fatcha with every fibre of my being for what she so unvaryingly did to the part of the country I grew up in. It may have been ‘a price worth paying’ for her, but she wasn’t the one on the pointy end of that particular deal.

I hated her but also a certain respect for her, for the reasons you stated. She said what she was going to do and she did it. 

But this lot? I feel nothing but complete and utter contempt for every last one of them. I’m certain she would have done too. Opportunistic, morally-bankrupt, posturing charlatans and greedy third-rate grifters

Thatcher…. well if you lived in middle England it was fine, however for the North East mining, steel and shipbuilding communities it was very different. There was no redemption nothing to support those communities.

Those communities paid the price for Thatcherism and continue to pay.

The only person that I was ever happy to see dead. One day there will be an inquiry into the Miners strike and it will be another Hillsborough.

however for the North East mining, steel and shipbuilding

The end was nigh anyway, she just accelerated it and became the lighting rod for the people who couldn’t cope with reality. It absolutely could have been managed a lot better but without massive government subsidies which the EU wouldn’t have allowed and don’t work long term the outcome would have been the same.

The simple truth is the UK is not competitive in those industries, partly due to workforce but a lot to do with Geography and our desire for some basic employment rights.

Best thing we could do is be part of a bigger block of similar countries so we can enforce our trade and employment standards on imports. But the very people most likely to benefit from that arrangement threw it away on the back of simplistic, unrealistic solutions and down right lies that played to their insular and parochial outlook.

These turkeys continue to vote for Chirstmas now backing Reform as much as Tory loons.

In the meantime Starmer is lambasted from the left and right for not just making it all better, whatever better looks like it is some time off due to the populist crap we’ve endured for the last decade.

The end was nigh anyway, she just accelerated it and became the lighting rod for the people who couldn’t cope with reality. It absolutely could have been managed a lot better but without massive government subsidies which the EU wouldn’t have allowed and don’t work long term the outcome would have been the same.

And the other EU countries faced with the same issues also adopted ‘Thatcherism’?

Hint, no they didn’t…

The current lot have absolutely none of the above, they are chancers saying anything they think might be popular, sixth-form Tories in the same way

As fun as it is to sneer away it isnt supported by the facts. The majority of them clearly have a primary ideology which they were then happy (since the continuation of thatcherism works great until you run out of assets to sell cheap and the rental bills come due) to pad out with some popularism in order to try and get power.

Its utterly baffling seeing people try and claim that Truss for example doesnt have a strategy and economic vision. I mean she is still arguing for it even now.

Johnson is the obvious exception whose only ideology is himself.

Jenrick is unclear currently. He may either be throwing away his personal beliefs for power or he may be copying Starmer in lying about doing so in order to get power.

He may either be throwing away his personal beliefs for power or he may be copying Starmer in lying about doing so in order to get power.

What did Starmer lie about?

What did Starmer lie about?

A few years ago he appeared to be a lot more left wing than he now is so he was either lying then and it now being honest or he was honest then and now dropped all that for a chance to be the moderate tory leader. I would go with the latter.

The end was nigh anyway, she just accelerated it and became the lighting rod for the people who couldn’t cope with reality. It absolutely could have been managed a lot better but without massive government subsidies which the EU wouldn’t have allowed and don’t work long term the outcome would have been the same.

So how do Italy, Germany and France continue to build a lot of high tech cruise ships?

On the News Agents podcast this week, they interviewed Graham Brady – he’s got a book out,  whom I’ve always though seemed like he came from the [more] sensible wing of the Party. When asked who he was backing for leadership he said,without hesitating Badenoch and called her “genuine”.

Two things. Thing One, if Brady is voting for her, then I’ve clearly misread his politics all this time, and he’s actually bonkers, and Thing Two. Of all the words you could use to describe Badenoch; ‘Genuine’ is an interesting choice, that is to say; her views clearly aren’t just a pitch at leadership based on echoing the worst of the party membership’s inner dialogue, they’re actually the things she believes..?

Oh Christ, let’s not have this thread end up with the usual suspects just banging on and on about Starmer

Back on topic: I don’t believe that Honest Bob, like Johnson before him, has a single ideal or belief. He’s all about his own personal advancement and will say anything to any given audience to progress that the furthest.

The Tory membership and the remaining Tory MPs are predominantly right wing nutjobs so that’s where he’s pitching himself. However, if people think he’ll ‘do a Starmer’ to pacify the nutters, then re-engage with the real world when he’s got the job, then they’re delusional. He won’t be allowed to. It’s Cruella who pulls his strings and he knows it. He’s just a right wing sock puppet.

Badanoch is the real deal. A true far right headbanger which is why the membership all love her.

They must be really conflicted at the moment. A true believer who’s the wrong sex and wrong colour or a recent convert who fits their ideal criteria (pale, male and stale)

The Tory membership and the remaining Tory MPs are predominantly right wing nutjobs so that’s where he’s pitching himself.

Membership yes but the tory MPs no.  A lot of the true nutters went in the election. Hence why the centrists did well up until getting carried away with tactical voting. As fun as it is to bang on in the normal hyperbolic way it does work better if you look at what the mps are actually doing. I would note your ranting about puppet masters and so forth is basically word for word what is being sprouted on some right wing leading forums about Rayner and the unions having Starmer dancing to their every command.

Badanoch is the real deal.

So not a opportunistic charlatan then?

Its utterly baffling seeing people try and claim that Truss for example doesnt have a strategy and economic vision. I mean she is still arguing for it even now

I said cohesive economic strategy. She does not have one of those. Thatcher did; many people didn’t agree with it or like it, but she had one and it did what she intended it to do.

So not a opportunistic charlatan then?

She may well be, but she’s a consistent one. She’s always been barking mad and isn’t advocating anything now that she hasn’t been doing for years. Maybe getting a bit more extreme but she’s always been ‘of the right’

Honest Bob on the other hand was a Cameron remainer, right up until the point where he wasn’t, and has now travelled the full distance to just repeat word-for-word whatever Suella tells him

Membership yes but the tory MPs no.  A lot of the true nutters went in the election

I don’t know where you get that idea from. The few sane MP’s who hadn’t been purged already by Johnson all stood down and didn’t seek re-election. The rump of Tory MPs are now right wing headbangers, by any metric, hence them selecting Jenrick or Badanoch as their new messiah as they go chasing off to the right after Farage.

To be fair, I wouldn’t have a clue what a Tory MP like Helen Whately thought about it all as she’s barely sentient. There’s quite a few fall into that category

I would note your ranting about puppet masters and so forth is basically word for word what is being sprouted on some right wing leading forums about Rayner and the unions having Starmer dancing to their every command

Again… consistency. They’ve always said that and will always continue to say that, so no surprises there then

Membership yes but the tory MPs no.

A very interesting reading of who is parliament now. I’d argue wide of the mark. The Conservative parliamentary party is lost. Just because a few loud Northern MPs have gone, doesn’t mark a shift towards anything sane among the remaining, perhaps quieter, members. Repairing from the Johnson days is going to be hard, because having moved closer to the membership (a membership swelled by exUKIP entrants), the parliamentary party is not going to be able to move away from them any time soon… because (normally) they have a say in who is selected to stand in seats, and… who leads the party.

There’s an argument to be made that the succession of unsuitable leaders that both parties have recently endured put in place by the votes of it’s membership, rather than being selected solely by their fellow MPs is probably an idea that’s past its time. I wonder which party will junk those rules first?

Two things. Thing One, if Brady is voting for her, then I’ve clearly misread his politics all this time, and he’s actually bonkers, and Thing Two. Of all the words you could use to describe Badenoch; ‘Genuine’ is an interesting choice, that is to say; her views clearly aren’t just a pitch at leadership based on echoing the worst of the party membership’s inner dialogue, they’re actually the things she believes..?

No, I think he’s always been very conservative.  Being chair of the 1922 committee I think gave him an air of superiority and impartiality because he didn’t have to publicly take sides in any contest.  And being the author of “the Brady amendment” which was supposed to be the compromise on Brexit and NI made him seem like the sensible one against May.  Whenever he’s been interviewed though he’s somewhat on the right of the party.

And example of “keeping your mouth shut and just appearing conservative, rather than open it and remove all doubt”.

There’s an argument to be made that the succession of unsuitable leaders that both parties have recently endured put in place by the votes of it’s membership, rather than being selected solely by their fellow MPs is probably an idea that’s past its time. I wonder which party will junk those rules first?

The few remaining sane Tory MPs left (everything’s relative) were very keen to change the rules before this leadership election.

They’re not all daft. Or at least they’re possessed by a sense of self-preservation. They know full well that their party is presently at the mercy of their insurgent Faragist ‘membership’ in the same way as the Momentum tail was for two elections wagging the Labour dog, thus rendering it repellent to the wider electorate

No, I think he’s always been very conservative

Yes, his voting record certainly agrees with your assessment, not mine. I think you’re right though, he’s been able to remain aloof of much of the party politicking and only really gets press when he’s giving failed PMs their marching orders.

I said cohesive economic strategy. She does not have one of those

She did. It was badly flawed but it was there. Whilst there has been massive historical revisionism its best not to forget Truss had a lot of support initially for the budget because it was Thatcherism 101.

The problem being Thatcher and her successors had already had a fire sale of all the state assets in order to prop things up and hence nothing was left for Truss.

That plus the pension funds were taking large risks. Whilst she did provide the spark they were waiting to explode anyway and probably would have done so this year anyway.

a lot of support initially for the budget

Ignore anyone that did. Saves a lot of nonsense.

A few years ago he appeared to be a lot more left wing than he now is so he was either lying then and it now being honest or he was honest then and now dropped all that for a chance to be the moderate tory leader. I would go with the latter.

Hmm, so zero evidence whatsoever and not even a reply from dissonance, even though he’s continued in the ‘conversation’ – I take it that’s because they too can’t back up their libellous comments?

Please, this is not the Starmer thread

Hmm, so zero evidence whatsoever and not even a reply from dissonance,

Because it was answered plus Binners was throwing his normal thread police bollox, although I do tend, considering his team prior to the leadership contest, to think Starmer did lie in the leadership contest about his intentions.  Can I prove it, nope but then I doubt he would fancy his chances in a libel court.

I am rather amazed you havent come across this before especially with reference to Jenrick. You do know Starmers original manifesto right?

I also wasnt aware that I am required to personally respond to you and given the entitlement I doubt I will in future.

*sigh*

sigh indeed – do you not bore yourself with what must be the 100th time you have posted that sign.  I get it, you don’t want your great leader to be criticised but you are in the minority as most people think he is shit so you may as well get used to it.

You’ve got 2 threads going where the same handful of you shout at each other, in furious agreement, with the same endlessly repetitive posts, while everyone else just leaves you to it.

Why don’t you bore off back to one of those instead of ruining every other thread with stuff about Starmer, who you’re clearly obsessed with, that has no relevance to the actual subject being discussed

This is about the Tory leadership election. I know you think he’s a Tory, as you never tire of telling us, but last time I looked Starmer wasn’t in the running

Can I prove it, nope but then I doubt he would fancy his chances in a libel court.

Always good to see folk when called out for posting bollox, eventually agree that they were talking bollox.

Now let’s get back to the two folk who’ve had backers/donors spending hundreds of thousands to get them a non-job for the next 4-5 years – why is that?

Always good to see folk when called out for posting bollox, eventually agree that they were talking bollox.

Ermm no I didnt say that.

Kind of proves how pointless it was responding to you when a)you are incapable of reading b) entitled as **** and c)Binners loses his mind at the obvious comparison between Jenrick and Starmer and whether their leadership contest positions are anything other than a temporary one.  My position is for Starmer that even the barest glance through the reflections of his team on the last few years is you would be gullible to think that.

For Jenrick its difficult to tell. Its certainly more complex than inane comments about him being a puppet of others. Aside from anything else you only need to look at Sunak or Cummings, from the other side, to see how well puppet masters often work out.

For Jenrick its difficult to tell.

It really isn’t. Its not about ‘puppet masters’, its about parliamentary maths

He’s already been very publicly put ‘on warning’ by Suella and the headbangers that if he tries to renage on the hardline right wing noises he’s been making, they’ll put the letters in and they’ll be having another leadership election to replace him. It’ll only take 19 of them to do that and he’s gone.

Thats why he’s bending over backwards to repeatedly assure them that he really is the horrible bastard they clearly now demand as leader. But as we all know the Tory right can never ever be placated and no matter what he does, they’ll think he’s a pinko liberal communist anyway

‘They have him by the balls’: senior Tories warn Robert Jenrick will be at mercy of ‘Braverman right’ as leader

It’ll only take 19 of them to do that and he’s gone.

No it won’t. They changed the rules last week. Good to see the same old arguements and you as the self appointed forum police still going strong. First time in months that I’ve even looked at a politics thread…..off I’ll pop again!

No it won’t. They changed the rules last week.

They changed the rules a while back to say that they’re ‘safe’ for a year before they face another leadership election, but what’s changed since then? I can’t find any reference to anything.

Jenrick is already being openly threatened by the feral, backbench right wing looms before he’s even been elected that he’s ‘on notice’. The reality is that the Tory party is completely ungovernable and the last 10 years have had the right wing tail wagging the dog. It was that that delivered us Brexit, Johnson, Truss amongst other joys

Whoever wins the poisoned chalice in a couple of weeks, I wouldn’t risk a penny of my money on betting they’d still be in place at the next general election. By Tory standards they’d be in for some sort of long service award if they were. No chance. Gone 12 months and 1 day after being elected to be immediately replaced by the next sock puppet

1922 members have been briefing the likes of GBN that’ll they change it to 36. Making themselves feel relevant I suppose. There probably will be change with such a small number of MPs. But look at the votes for Badenoch… whatever the threshold set is… and they have a year to decide and implement one… there will be more MPs than that ready to resist any move towards normal.