That Maxxis "babes calendar" article…

fionap

Do I want the calender banned? No.
Do I hope that type of marketing finally dies out as support for it dies? Yes.

and 6 posts later…

cumberlanddan

Banning, or if you insist, preventing the sale of, such calendars…

Don’t feed the troll.

binners – Member

The reason I get so bloody angry is that I don’t want my daughters, or anyone else for that matter growing up in world with neolithic cockwombles like Dan in it. Where casual sexism is perfectly acceptable, in fact something to be staunchly defended at all costs, celebrated even. As if being a massively offensive, misogynistic dickhead is somehow a basic human right

I could and probably should give a very short answer to that.

It seems you think that

being a massively offensive… …dickhead is somehow a basic human right

Your precious daughters. I hope mine never meet yours. Pillock.

I’d be interested to see you justify half of that tripe. Perhaps you can find another witty picture from the 70’s?

Which is a pity really, as the main subject is quite serious

Yes, it is, which is why it deserves a better analysis then tits=sexism.

@cumberlanddan – I guess you’re referring to my username… I lived for a few years in Appleby and was living there when I set up this account…not in that area now though (sadly)…you weren’t planning to stalk me were you? 😀

I’ve been groped on the tube. I’ve been flashed at on the train. I’ve been leered at on the bus. I’ve been harassed walking down the street. I’ve had men in cars shout things at me as they drive past. I’ve had comments when I’m on my bike. None of these experiences are unique – all of my female friends have similar tales

I’m been gropped in a bus station, I’ve had my bum pinched when working in clubs (photographer), I’ve had woman try to put their hands up my kilt, I’ve had comments made when I’ve been on my bike. Sorry but sexual harrasmint isn’t just limited to woman. Thats the attitude of people and sexy calandars to not supporting the sexist element in sociaty. Using secy attractive people so sell products won’t ever end and I hope it doesn’t as thats censorship. I do hope the world becomes equal and people are no longer sexist (to both sexes)

Trying to be serious for a moment…perhaps one of the issues at stake here, is people with one viewpoint trying to tell others how to behave or think. That’s what I really didn’t like about the original STW article.

Telling someone how to behave is perhaps a good thing. If a person’s behaviour is having a negative impact on another person.

However, telling someone how or what to think isn’t acceptable in my book.

I don’t think it is acceptable for someone else to tell me (or anyone else) how to think, as long as I (or other people) don’t offend someone else by my words or actions.

ie. a person can think and believe whatever they want. that’s their business and no-one else’s. As long as their belief doesn’t then impact negatively on another person.

eg. If I wander round to someones private workshop/garage and he’s got a erotic calendar on the wall and he/she believes that is ok, then that’s their business and it’s not for me to tell them what they should and shouldn’t think.

eg. If someone down the pub is making sexist comments in front of other people, that is unacceptable, as their behaviour is negatively impacting other people.

Discuss?

skydragon – has it.

From my seat I’ve been told what I am and am not allowed to think which I find to be less than ideal.

I’ve also been told that I think lots of things which I don’t think and that those things are unacceptable and offensive so I should change what I think even though I don’t think those things in the first place.

Its all very confusing.

Have you been on the internet before?

The only thing that surprises me is that nobody has started a petition

We’re slacking.

But just for Danny Boy…..

Now put your knickers on and make me a cup of tea

*slaps dans arse*

Beyond the immediate “oh look, some girls in bikinis” reaction, the calendar inspires absolutely no further judgment on women from my part.

Yes, but we’re not talking about you specifically here. I think you’d be surprised by the attitudes of some men. The ones Fiona and V8 are talking about, perhaps.

Sorry but sexual harrasmint isn’t just limited to woman.

Yep – this is well known.

neolithic cockwombles like Dan

Honestly binners, I don’t think he is sexist. The reason he doesn’t get it is precisely because he ISN’T sexist – he has no idea that there’s a problem.

Yes, it is, which is why it deserves a better analysis then tits=sexism.

I agree, which is why I’ve been explaining that the whole thread! Also why I haven’t walked away.

From my seat I’ve been told what I am and am not allowed to think

I’m sorry, we’re really not communicating well at all, and I apologise for that. I think a more careful reading is required. I personally am not telling you what to think – I’m trying to explain what other people think.

pirelli are now doing it for empowering reasons apparently…

http://www.redbull.com/us/en/motorsports/stories/1331762864384/pirelli-calendar-2016

I can’t resist skydragon’s last post…..

The original article was not telling you how to think, it was her telling you what she thought and HER opinion. She can do this and you can disagree with HER viewpoint but what is not reasonable is to tell her she can’t have that view point or that she has no right to voice an opinion. She has stated what she would like to happen to the practice of advertising in this manner (note advertising), which has been echoed by a number of women, myself included.

I have no idea how this can be construed as censorship, banning or telling people how they should think.

The original article was not telling you how to think, it was her telling you what she thought and HER opinion. She can do this and you can disagree with HER viewpoint but what is not reasonable is to tell her she can’t have that view point or that she has no right to voice an opinion.

Ginger – Thanks, good point.

I guess my issue is that I don’t read a MTB magazine/forum to be informed of feminist viewpoints. I don’t want to hear Adele’s feminist views, thanks. No offence intended to Adele, who has a right to think and believe whatever she wants.

Just the same I wouldn’t want to read an article about how finding God had improved someone’s jump skills (no offence intended to the religious forum members)

Back to my point of think what you want, but don’t preach.

Slow down ginger or you’ll end up like binners! Have a look at molgrips last one.

I know there is a problem. I know some horrible sexist and racist people and the worst ones don’t seem to be the ones who make lots of noise about it. They are far more subtle and conniving and that is a real issue.

Just for those who don’t get rhetoric, banishing calendars like this just gives the noisy ones something to get upset about i.e. pc gone mad, censorship arguments (which are not completely untrue in my opinion) and gives the nasty little bastards oxygen to go about their business.

So yes, it is an issue but the calendar and sexual imagery generally is not a symptom of it, in my view (though obviously there are examples where it is such as pornography depicting rape and that sort of thing).

Reading this thread I think I might go home and cry, for humanity.

Ok Dan so you more or less agree. It’s just that you don’t think the calendar is in the ‘negative’ category.

I do, but it’s very subtle. Problem is the more subtle stuff is the most pervasive, cos everyone thinks it’s fine. And the ‘it’s just a bit of fun’ defence was pretty much worn out in the 70s.

From my seat I’ve been told what I am and am not allowed to think which I find to be less than ideal.

You’re not being told what you should think. Rather, you’re being asked to start thinking.

Of course “not all men” equate a glamorous photoshoot with women being subservient / inferior. But plenty do, so whilst the likes of you and I are no doubt shining beacons of male feminism that doesn’t mean there isn’t a problem elsewhere.

And, of course men experience sexism. I’ve had my arse (and worse) grabbed by women in pubs and clubs before now, for example, and Hen Party type groups can be pretty forthright and intimidating. I expect many other guys have too.

But the point you seemed determined to overlook is, just because this happens occasionally doesn’t mean that there’s parity. I can count the number of times it’s happened to me on the fingers of, at a wildly vague estimate, both hands. If you were to ask your average woman how many inappropriate comments or unwanted sexual advances they’d experienced you’d probably get a similar figure for this month. And that’s the difference, right there.

I think as a nation we’re still broadly fairly twitchy and prudish when it comes to sex and sexuality, and I look forward to a day when that’s no longer the case. But as I said at the outset, perhaps we just need to take a step back before we can go forwards. Once we finally establish that “laddish” (or indeed, ladetteish) behaviour may be fine in a Blackpool nightclub but isn’t acceptable in polite company then we perhaps we can have nice things again.

banishing calendars

Is your browser set to write-only or something?

Er yes. In your opinion!

Having not been around in the 70’s I really wouldn’t know, though from media references and the rest it seems it wasn’t calendars but an actual attitude of discrimination which was the problem. To me, the imagery and the attitude correlate but theres no causality.

Could it simply be that we’re from different eras so have a different frame of reference?

99 to go boys 🙂

Back to my point of think what you want, but don’t preach.

TBH the article didn’t seem that preachy to me, it was just a bit;

“Why are we still having to have this conversation?”

Could it simply be that we’re from different eras so have a different frame of reference?

Well I was born in the mid-70s, so I didn’t experience this first hand.

I started off being curious, because a lot of things feminists would say didn’t seem to make sense. But the more I learn about the world the more I understand their point.

because a lot of things feminists would say didn’t seem to don’t make sense.

dragon – Member

because a lot of things feminists would say didn’t seem to don’t make sense.

lol

because a lot of things feminists would say didn’t seem to don’t make sense.

Such as?

They don’t make sense to you, because maybe you’re not listening?

Maybe you are sexist after all?

A lot of feminist writing is ridiculous but then again, lots isn’t. But thats why this thread is so long. All I’ve said in that sentence is that I disagree with some feminist writing, yet it will be leapt on and turned into cumberlanddan hates women.

As for calendars, i don’t think they cause men or women to be sexist. I don’t think this particular imagery is particularly demeaning or outrageous which makes me think the original article was more than a little bit OTT.

The argument against the calendar seems to boil down to the pernicious nature of the image creating an environment for sexism. Well the language used by many defending the abolishment (is that word OK?) of such images is equally pernicious in that it demeans and dismisses without engaging, and some of it demonstrates a quite sexist attitude against men.

yet it will be leapt on and turned into cumberlanddan hates women.

Ok let’s put this to bed. I’ve repeatedly said I don’t think you’re sexist. Binners does, but I don’t.

Well the language used by many defending the abolishment (is that word OK?) of such images is equally pernicious in that it demeans and dismisses without engaging, and some of it demonstrates a quite sexist attitude against men.

Who exactly is defending the abolition (that’s the actual word 😉 ) of calendars? The forced censorship, in other words?

No-one is advocating censorship.

A lot of feminist writing is ridiculous

As are an awful lot of opinions on here. (the one where you keep insisting that people are suggesting banning this sort of calender when no-one has, springs to mind)

and some of it demonstrates a quite sexist attitude against men.

now I know you’re trolling 😆

because a lot of things feminists would say didn’t seem to don’t make sense.

There does appear to be some hypocrisy but that is because there are two (if not more) ways of looking at feminism – those who look for equality (most people arguing the case here) and those who are interested in liberation (Germaine Greer etc) – often they will disagree with each other.

I have been groped by women , had woman flash their boobies and lift their skirts. I have had a man just walk over and sit on my lap and tell me he wanted to take me home and **** me on two separate occassions. I have been beeped at. Had women hold two fingers to their mouth and wiggle there tongue through it.
I even had a woman crash her car as she was to busy watching me walk down the street with my top off.
And had several dogs hump my leg.

I don’t know what conclusion to come to with regard to calendars based on the above information.

Now were back into semantics!

Abolishment (I had to look it up! It didn’t sound right but is apparently correct), banning, etc – Seriously, what would you call a situation where someone is producing something you don’t like and you want them to stop?

Self censorship seems to be the correct term which in practice would be exactly the same as an enforced ban i.e. censorship.

I don’t know what conclusion to come to with regard to calendars based on the above information.

Easy: ‘Chip’ – 2016 Calendar

Binners is even posting pictures of child abusers now.
Yay, go binners.

Self censorship seems to be the correct term which in practice would be exactly the same as an enforced ban i.e. censorship.

Seriously, what would you call a situation where someone is producing something you don’t like and you want them to stop?

I’d call it a campaign?

Easy: Chip 2016 Calendar

I have let myself go a bit lately, give me six months and I’m in, and we will shoot the 2017.