talk to me about touring

the wife has got into touring in a pretty big way, does 5 or 6 short tours and at least one longer one each year (did lejog last year)

now, we are a bit bike obsessive, she owns a tourer, a road bike, a full sus, a hardtail and a downhill bike and i own the same without the tourer (plus i own 2 hardtails)

but thats ok as we don’t have kids 😉

it seems the only way i’m going to get involves with these trips is to purchase a bike suitable for tagging along on her trips. i’ve recently upgraded my road bike and am a bit worried riding it at the moment as there is a lot of crap on the roads and it won’t take full mudguards.

SO

i’d like to purchase something that will do the job of touring AND winter road bike duties AND going to the shops and back every now and then.

looking around, the specialized tricross looks just the ticket and could be got with rack, panniers and mudguards for under a grand.

is there anything else that fits the ticket?

is there enough toe/heel clearance on the tricross for touring?

oh and as they are popular i’d be able to flog it if I hated touring

Kaffenback? Steel, hardy, racks and mounts, comfortable.

Do my touring/shopping on a Pompino.

Mate of mine used a Tricross on a tour of the Outer Hebrides last year (as well as commuting). Really nice – I’d recommend. I have a Kona Sutra – a bit heavier, but more stable/planted (whatever) and it also has disks which I prefer for loaded touring.

There’s a couple of photos of the Tricross in this lot

Slide Show

Kaffenback comes with a compact not a triple, sure i could change that though if i spoke to them, worth considering thanks

hmmm, leisure lakes do 12 months interest free 😯

What sort of touring? If you’re planning on camping then you might want something a bit more sturdy than the options already mentioned. Dawes Super Galaxy is the obvious choice. If not, have a look at audax type bikes. I have a Thorn Audax and it was perfect for the B&B/ YHA LEJOG I did the other year.

sounds like you definitely want a new bike 🙂
but depending on what hardtails you’ve got, short travel??
and if they have mounts,

why not just use one of them,
the gearing is fine on the road if its fully laden,
a hardtail is built strong enough to taken the weight and abuse,

i did a 5 week tour on my hardtail,
with rear panniers, this was plenty plus a top box,
was using r7 forks so light, pumped them up so they didnt compress as much under riding but still gave a bit of comfort,
because all the weight is over the rear the front wheel is light and just rolls over stuff,

but you’ll wanna change tyres/maybe bars/stem (i didnt) and definitely put on barends. oh and 2 bottle cages.

just an idea, it’ll be minimal cost to convert,
so if you dont like it, then no major problem,

If you’re planning on camping then you might want something a bit more sturdy than the options already mentioned

piffle and waffle.

http://pompinos.blogspot.com/

EDIT: forgot, picture account that that blog links to is deceased. Trip pictures of bike etc are here now http://picasaweb.google.com/northmalvern/PompinoTrip

neither hardtail is suitable really, Klein has no mudguard/pannier mounts and the micro dropouts wouldn’t take an axle mounted pannier

alpine is a rather heavy 150mm monster!

want drop bars really

i like your thinking though

Ransos – wife has an ultragalaxy, matching bikes would just be a step to far…..

more likely to be B&B touring

BTW Midge bars are great for touring. The splay makes them comfortable for honking on, but the wide tops and hoods comfortable for cruising. Also plenty of room to put a bar bag between the drops too.

oh and the Klein is now pretty much irreplaceable so i’d rather no tour with it

Stoner – those pictures prove nothing as they show lightly loaded bikes. Whilst it’s possible to camp with that light a load, most people don’t. And anyone who really loads up a 4lb frame is asking for trouble.

MMW – yeah, matching bikes, matching panniers, etc, etc. I see your point! I reckon a Kaffenback would be a good, cheap option for B&B touring. I had a look at one the other day and was surprised at how close the clearances are though – I reckon 32C plus guards would be the absolute limit.

think i might pop down to leisure lakes later and see if they have one i can pedal about a bit

Erm can I be cheeky and suggest you ask the Mrs for advice? 😉

that’s not cheeky atall, we have discussed it but the galaxy is the only tourer she has had and it doesn’t get used for winter roady duties, she’s looking at a langster for that!

gonna need a bigger garage soon 🙁

I have just bought an on one 456 for touring in india later this summer. has rack mounts, made of steel and is strong enought o take the offroad abuse.

Just and idea.

Stoner… can you tell me about your luggage?

Did you carry camping equipment or did you BandB it? I ask as I’m planning a Leeds to Brighton ride in the summer and am torn between camping and BandB.

I really don’t want to have to carry that much but as I could be out of work soon camping could be my only option.

BTW Midge bars are great for touring. The splay makes them comfortable for honking on, but the wide tops and hoods comfortable for cruising. Also plenty of room to put a bar bag between the drops too.

That’s utter posh. Did 2000 miles on a touring bike with midges of which 600 were fully loaded and after trying hard to get on with them for so long, – playing about with setup – just HAD to take them off.
The splay DOES give you a very secure drop position on the bar but at the expense of putting your hands at awkward positions on the hoods. With the midges to get the correct position on the drops you need to push the levers forward on the bar which leaves you with the hoods feeling horrible – maybe alright on monstercross mountainbikes where the hoods aren’t going to be used. But the whole idea of drops on tourers is for multiple hand positions for comfort, of which the midges only seem to manage in one position. If you want a wide position for “honking” get some risers with bar ends or better yet, some butterfly bars.

Have a look second hand on the ctc website. Got a lovely thorn Raven off there for £350.

says you….

Bar types and positions are always a personal choice.

As for the “weight” of a frame suitable for touring however, the technical limitations of, say, a steel kaffenback relative to a Dawes Galaxy are de minimis unless you’re a clydesdale. Even if you load the bike with 30Kg (mad, but possible) then the combined weight of a chap and kit is going to be in the order of 100-110kg. Which if it was going to be a problem would mean a weight limit for just a rider on the frame of the same mass…cant say Ive seen such advice for the kaffenback…

streetdog – sorry, missed your post.

We camped for 2 months with a couple of stays in B&B (which of course doesnt change the need to take all your kit for camping whetehr you B&B as well or not).

There’s a kit list at the beginning of the blog as well as descriptions of the luggage and kit choices etc.

“As for the “weight” of a frame suitable for touring however, the technical limitations of, say, a steel kaffenback relative to a Dawes Galaxy are de minimis unless you’re a clydesdale. Even if you load the bike with 30Kg (mad, but possible) then the combined weight of a chap and kit is going to be in the order of 100-110kg. Which if it was going to be a problem would mean a weight limit for just a rider on the frame of the same mass…cant say Ive seen such advice for the kaffenback…”

You’re comparing apples and oranges. Touring luggage places direct loads on specific parts of the frame, different to the load placed by the rider. That’s why many light touring bikes have luggage weight limits, and why full touring bikes tend to be a bit heavier, as they are beefed up in the right places.

If the effect of luggage is minimal as you claim, explain why two full panniers induce noticeable flex in the back of my bike at speed, yet I notice no flex at all when riding unladen.

i believe ransos to be right. However, i will never be loading it that much as i’ve yet to convince the wife to do camping touring (i’d much prefer this) and if we did it would be very minimalist

If the effect of luggage is minimal as you claim, explain why two full panniers induce noticeable flex in the back of my bike at speed, yet I notice no flex at all when riding unladen.

flexy bike?

The Kaffenback may not be “beefed” up specifically for the purpose of carrying loads, but Id be surprised if anyone who owned one would consider it to fragile for touring duties. Your criticism of a frame may be appropriate for aluminium cross frames or lighter road trainer 700c frames, but the kaffenback is a pretty substantial beast.

wife usually carries:

spares, 1xcycle clothing, 1x evening clothing with sandles, toiletries, waterproof trous and jacket.

that’s about it. i’d add to that a camera and 1 or 2 lenses probably in a top bag or bar bag for easy access.

“flexy bike?

The Kaffenback may not be “beefed” up specifically for the purpose of carrying loads, but Id be surprised if anyone who owned one would consider it to fragile for touring duties. Your criticism of a frame may be appropriate for aluminium cross frames or lighter road trainer 700c frames, but the kaffenback is a pretty substantial beast.”

4lb is not substantial at all for a steel frame. I didn’t say that it’s too fragile for touring, I said it’s a bit light for full camping loads.

My bike (Thorn Audax) isn’t flexy unladen – my weight is supported by the seat tube which is substantially beefier than the rear stays that support panniers. That’s why Thorn use heavier gauges for their full touring bikes.

Though given that the OP isn’t planning to do full blown camping, this is all irrelevant anyway.

I would say you are on the right track with the ‘cross bike idea – a Tricross, Jake or similar would fit the bill nicely. In steel frames I think the Uncle John and the Genesis Croix De Fer both have rack mounts and guard eyelets. Much more versatile and more re-saleable than a touring bike, and you’d have the option to do some cross racing in the winter too if you wanted to keep fit and discover a whole new world of competitive inadequacy. They tend to come with compact cranks so chuck a mountain bike cassette on it and you’ll be able to get up anything you can with a triple.

The only problem is that an alu cross frame might be a bit stiff and unforgiving but you can sort that out with some bigger tyres.

LL have a 56 tricross coming in for me to fiddle with 🙂

Unless you’re really going to do full on, heavyweight touring, then any of the above “otherwise normal bike” suggestions would be fine. I do a bit of light (B&B) touring on my Giant SCR. It’s an alu frame, and does the job just fine with a rack and a pair of Ortlieb backs rollers on.

So, if the Kaff’s a sturfy enough bike for general dutioes (and is essentially the frame Stoner and Mrs Stoner did their trip), that would be fine.

Tricross is OK, but it’s not exactly attractive, and the fork… OMG it’s not even a 2am job. Bleurgh!

Mike – I had a Jake which was ace for touring. We did some wild camping for which I used that, then went to the Isle of Harris where I used my turner but I’d have been much better off using the Jake. all day comfortable, strong enough and decent enough components. I had everything on mine, tent, stove, clothes, the lot and it took it all with ease.

Topeak rack (frame has rack mounts see) plus mudguards and off you go.

north – have to disagree there, i like the tricross looks

flange, thanks. the jake is aluminium and your unique riding style didn’t break it so i guess the tricross should be ok

The Tricross’s fork has cankles. 🙂

But the metallic green one looks really nice.

Thanks Stoner… will check out your blog. 🙂

Stoner…great blog…given me lots of help and advice there, thanks.
Going to get myself a Carradice now.

no problem. Sorry it’s gone so flaky without the pictures now…

I have found that flex felt when touring with panniers is mainly in the pannier racks that flex and sway – tubus racks sort this.

Surly Crosscheck or touring specific Long Haul Trucker could be added to the list of possibles.

Longer chainstays can help handling with loaded rear panniers and prevent heels catching them. You could check out the ctc forum for lots of experience and advice with a wide range of set ups -panniered Galaxy’s to skinny tyred light weights with carry-freedom Y trailer.