Supporting LBS (I know one more)

I have jsut bought a pair of hope hoops at the LBS. Now I know I could have got them around 150€ cheaper on the tinterweb (but how do you deal with warranties).

I don't really have problems supporting a LBS as they let me use their workshop for free. They ride motorcycles too and we ride them a lot. They are genuily nice chaps whom I get along very well.

However 150 euros isn't a small amount of money, so what is the most diplomatic way to wispers to their ears that I could have bought the wheel off the internet for much cheaper (and at the correct size of rotors so no need for a change of brakes too)?

I am not asking for a discount as they have always been fair in terms of price. Just you know a bit of recognition about the fact we are supporting them during these hard time.

A good LBS is always aware of the fact that you have chosen to purchase from them and that will be rewarded accordingly.

(and at the correct size of rotors so no need for a change of brakes too)?

Well for starters a good bike shop should sort you out with the right rotors as Hope make rotors to suit all brands, if they didnt even mention it then they are not a good shop.

Well thing is they have a "discount for all" policy (all their prices are below RPP) so regular customers use to get free labour. As I do all my maintenance fitting myself I can't really benefit from it.

Oh well it's always nice to pop there for a bit of banter anyway.

Well for starters a good bike shop should sort you out with the right rotors as Hope make rotors to suit all brands, if they didnt even mention it then they are not a good shop.

It was for hope hoops wheel set, so specific rotors otherwise it would have been easy.

"A good LBS is always aware of the fact that you have chosen to purchase from them and that will be rewarded accordingly."
^^^^^^
Can vouch for that! 😀

It was for hope hoops wheel set, so specific rotors otherwise it would have been easy.

Yep, you listen to the surly uninterested member of staff, afterall everyone knows that to get a job in a bikeshop you have to actually know your stuff… (that was sarcasm in case you wondering).

If he had been interested he could have rang hope for you to be told Hope can supply rotors which will be compatible with 99% of brakes.

oh, and the wheels when ordered from Hope come with whatever size rotors you want… FREE! So dont settle for just what the shop has in stock.

Stato I know that, but then that was my mistake as I could have ask to order the wheels with 203/180 mm but then it's true they should have offered that too.

If you are a good regular customer (not just tubes and stuff), a decent LBS should be within 10% of CRC/Wiggle prices otherwise they are ripping you off.

a decent LBS should be within 10% of CRC/Wiggle prices otherwise they are ripping you off

Eh? They're not there for the love, you know. They exist to make money.

This is spot on;

A good LBS is always aware of the fact that you have chosen to purchase from them and that will be rewarded accordingly.

How they reward you isn't as simple as "being within 10%" of the vast buying power and reduced overheads of someone like CRC or Wiggle.

Wiggle gives me harribo, LBS gives me the run arround, I'd rather pay 10% less, get the bits I want, not have to travel to pick them up.

I'm a cyclist, not a charity.

Since when did you get free rotors with Hope Hoops??

I'm a cyclist, not a charity.

Presuming you meant: "I'm a cyclist, not charitable" – There's more to it than that surely. If we always strive for money saving and economic efficiency, then more jobs will be lost and LBS as part of the community will disappear. How sh1t will the world be when we're only left with Tesco, Next, Curry's and online 'shops'.

Since when did you get free rotors with Hope Hoops??

Only with the SP3 or SP4 versions, they are specific rotors for the hub so you have to specify what size rotors you need when you buy them (or if you buy in a shop they should ask)

Lets get this right, you chose to go with your LBS paying 150 more and now you want that back from the LBS in some other form?

If we always strive for money saving and economic efficiency, then more jobs will be lost and LBS as part of the community will disappear.

Plenty of LBS survive without 'regulars' proping them up. I believe its called… running a business

Next Vs tailor made shirt, Next is cheeper and quicker

Tesco (or ASDA near me) Vs My corner shop, ASDA has more choice, cheeper and the veg isn't mouldy.

LBS Vs Online, LBS website lists part, got to shop, no sorry, its sold out, get home (£3.50 down on bus fare by now), e-mail manager of LBS with a rant, reasured part is in stock and I should come in and pick it up tomorow, arrive tommorow, "no sorry, that cant be right, we don't even have a PC", what kind of unbelievable spanner monkey excuse is that! Even my grandparents have a PC, surely a high street shop thats just managed to send me an e-mail has a f****** PC!

Give up, go home, buy part online for a tenner, recieve part allong with bag of harribo 24 hours later.

I realy would like a relationship with a local LBS, but as they struggle to recognise their own arse from their elbow I wouldnt hold out hope of them recognising a regular customer. Thankfully we've just got an Evans, hopefully it'll be the cycling equivalent of Tesco and drive the LBS out of business. I don't care if they dont recognise me and give me 10% off because I'm local as they'll be cheeper anyway.

Thankfully we've just got an Evans, hopefully it'll be the cycling equivalent of Tesco and drive the LBS out of business. I don't care if they dont recognise me and give me 10% off because I'm local as they'll be cheeper anyway.

Might I be so bold as to ask which Reading LBS has been giving you the run around?

Maybe I am just lucky with the variety of LBS that I have – my main one is the bike chain but I do use others as well.

Prices are rarely significantly more than CRC except on some high volume stuff or high end stuff. Staff are generally friendly and knowledgeable. I can see parts before I buy them.

I think part of the reason is that in Edinburgh we have a choice of LBS – half a dozen or more decent shops so they have to have decent customer service to survive.

I was in the bike chain earlier in the week checking prices for the stuff I will be buying for strathpuffer having previously checked the same stuff on CRC. For a spend of around £100 buy buying from the cheapest internet suppliers I would save under £10. Thats worth it for the level of service and the hassle free nature of getting the stuff from my LBS

Action Bikes in the town center, I've never ventured far enough to make it to you'r shop.

Bizzarely the best customer service (and prices on consumables) is the scooter garrage in Whitley Wood which is inhabited by a load of oversized bearded biker stereotypes!

CycleZone just seemed to have a problem selling me stuff "can I have a rear shimano QR axel for a 130mm hub", "no, you want a 126mm hub axel" (this debate went on a while, in the end I just bought it from the LBS near my parents).

Oddly, I've found myself shoping in halfords and getting good customer service recently…………..

My LBS was very good, and on most of the big stuff I bought (never bikes, but decent spec forks, brakes, wheels) they gave me a very good price. It compared well to what I would have paid at CRC for exactly the same thing (model/year). When I bought some Boxxers they chucked in a brake mount, little things like that add up too. And they would do spannering stuff that I couldn't manage (BBs stuck in frames etc) for a packet of biscuits, which was very helpful.

I've been going in there for 4 years. I think if you develop a relationship with a shop they are more likely to do you favours.

this whole subject is actually very straightforward and requires little debate.

In my not so humble experience if you are a 'regular customer' buying the occasional frame, forks, brakes, wheels etc. you usually get offered a discount of around 10%. This is not a right, it is earned by being a good customer. It takes longer with some shops than others but it always comes.

Nowdays I am honest with my LBS, if I know i can get something substantially cheaper than the standard discount price and it is a big expenditure and I am prepared to have less good warranty support then I will have a conversation about what they can do for me on price and then I make a decision about what I am going to do.

Usually it will be stick with the LBS, but recently in the instance of some rebas I went to on one as the saving was well over £100 and the bike shop couldn't even buy them at that price.

Similarly I recently wanted a wheel so went to my bike shop and ordered it there because I value them and because I want to be able to get it fixed by the bloke who built it!

I regard myself as being in a very fortunate position with understanding LBS's who are excellent. I have been a regular good customer for at least 10 years though and don't want to think about the money I have spent there!

I would however not dream of demanding a price match in a shop that I had never been to before and similarly would not do this when the amount to be saved is modest. I guess I use internet suppliers for bike stuff no more than 5 times a year, and that is mainly because I can't get what i want off my LBS.

Love the banner ad at the bottom of this thread (on my screen at least)

MONDAY TUESDAY WEDNESDAY THURSDAY FRIDAY SATURDAY SUNDAY EVERYDAY'S A SALE DAY
chainreactioncycles.com

How can anyone compete with that.

I am happy to pay more at my LBS than shop online, and I'm also happy to wait for them to order stuff in. I get first class service, advice and information, loans of tools, quick jobs done free and instantly, and I do get a discount (even though it would never match wiggle/CR).

But I'm lucky to have a great LBS staffed by a team that have worked there for over a decade and really know their stuff. Faced with bad service at high cost, perhaps I'd be singing a different tune.

However I think there's a bit of a bigger picture that affects my buying habits. Firstly, on a personal note I find the quest for cheap sources of expensive bike parts quite hard to take seriously. I hear people saying they managed to save 30 quid on a King rear hub and wonder why, in the position to blow lots of money on unneccessarily expensive parts for an ultimately pointless and notoriously expensive hobby, they argue over £30.

Bargain hunting in a largely middle class, expensive sport is quite an odd paradox in my mind. If you're that keen to save money, buy a cheap and adequate bike and stop wasting money on kit you'll never do justice. Otherwise, open your wallet and shut up.

However that is just a personal view that will no doubt be torn limb from limb on here and one I don't for a moment expect anyone to share.

That aside, what I can't help but agree with is one point mentioned above. I don't want to live in a world where only the likes of Tesco, Currys and Wiggle exist. Their disproportionate buying power is a dangerous thing, and upsets the balance of power, taking it from the hands of the producers and into the hands of large business.

Ask the agricultural industry (particularly dairy farmers) what damage Tescos and the endless supermarket price wars are doing to their livelihood. They've put the country in a state where producers can't afford to exist and do what they've done for years, so the things we buy end up getting shipped from half way round the world.

Yes, we get it cheaper but the knock on effects are huge and I think it takes a certain level of selfishness to be okay with that.

Vast purpose-built superstores with immense carparks, situated miles from communities, while the chipboard gets nailed over the local shop fronts. Just doesn't seem right. Where I live I'm surrounded by farms, and yet none of their produce is available at my nearest Tesco. Tesco provide choice – mega choice – but I don't want or need mega choice, I just want good quality fresh local food.

They've killed the local petrol station too. Selling fuel as a loss leader has forced independant filling stations (and associated shops and services – focal points for a community) out of business as they can't possibly compete. And so I now have to drive miles to wait in the endless queues at one of about four huge 30-pump filling stations, when I should be able to just nip down the road.

Should the online sellers be successful enough to completely wipe the country of it's local bike shop competition, we suddenly become very much at their mercy. Suddenly if they don't stock what I want, what do I do? My bike needs fixing, what do I do? I need to borrow a BB facer for half an hour, what do I do? I need to try on garments for fit before I buy, what do I do? I need to physically show someone knowledgable some problem I'm having with my bike, what do I do?

And if an importer/parts supplier won't meet the price demands of the all powerful online retailer they'll be cast out with nowhere to go, and they'll disappear.

I'm not a communist/hippy/particulalry wealthy, but I'm very much against the large-scale way of doing things. Capitalism works, but after a point (the point at which I believe it's termed rampant) that success is outweighed by it's irrelevance. It's impersonal, not sociable, not community spirited, just not really… human.

And that is what happens when we consider price alone. Life becomes more about balance sheets, facts, figures and statistics than it does about people.

I don't want to shop digitally in the same way I don't want to shop in a warehouse sized superstore, herded from isle to isle, blinded by the fantastic offers on Golden Grahams, Lee&Perrins Gutamalan Guava Bean Sauce and £30 DVD players and fed through the checkout conveyor line like a two legged cash-producing cog in an immense money-making machine, waiting patiently in silence while surrounded by my fellow human beings also waiting patiently in silence. It's not human. It's not right. And so I'll pay a little more in order to escape that world.

I feel genuinely sad that I see my pound as a more valuable democratic tool than my right to vote, but that doesn't stop me using it as best I believe I can.

JacktheDog for PM. I wish I could have put it as well.

JacktheDog for PM. I wish I could have put it as well

Me n'all.

That's what I was trying to say.

Look at the Post Office – streamlining to save money, but putting good folk out of work?? I don't want a cheaper, quicker service – I want fellas I know and can have a chat to.

Don't get me wrong, I use CRC, Merlin etc, but use my lbs more, or increasingly, source stuff second hand.
People shop around to save a few quid, then spend it on bottled water????

I want fellas I know and can have a chat to.

Do you also want your car Hand built by Roberts?

Great post. Happy to pay a bit more to keep local businesses going.

Hang on a minute I did not said I wanted my 150€ back lets face it. And I agree with jackthedog. I have just been for a ride with the lbs staff, like i did yesterday.

They did offer me to come to milan for the motorcycle show as well. It's just that it's getting harder as they do face hard time (we use to have nice nigths in a few years back hummmm).

Maybe it's getting very hard for them too I should ask.

no doubt. crc and wiggle are undercutting shops to a degree they just cant compete with.
bulk buying, OE kit, etc.

but on the flip side.

the biggest price difference i have been part of was 35 quid for a pair of shifters on crc, 40 quid each in the shop.
not really a dilema when your a student.

having said that, i wouldnt buy wheels from crc, for instance.
sure i bet thier good, but my shop will build you your wheels to spec, and then retrue them for free after a few hundred miles.
infact, i think the build was free because i bought all the parts of the wheel from the shop. (and its a badass build)

i wouldnt buy shoes or helmets from the internets too.

JE james will meet or beat any online price, which is good, but the shop itself could be better.

its all a very sad state of affais if you ask me.

I'm not sure I'd want to spend as much as €150 on a whole wheelset, never mind that much extra! But then I already have some wheels so the matter is moot…

would however not dream of demanding a price match in a shop that I had never been to before

No, me neither, but I did walk into Mountain Trax with a list of bits including Hope Hoops and Yeti 575 frame, with all the best internet prices next to them and said – "Match that please!"
And they very nearly did too. I got my headset fitted and disc mount faced for free which made up the difference, and I'd bought both of those elsewhere!
I am a cheeky bugger though, but so what? 🙂

CaptainFlashheart – Member

a decent LBS should be within 10% of CRC/Wiggle prices otherwise they are ripping you off

Eh? They're not there for the love, you know. They exist to make money.

Of course they are not there for the love, and I'm not here to throw my hard earned cash away. It's called negotiation and it works both ways.

My LBS gets within 10% of CRC/Wiggle and they get all my business. They make less profit per item but get increased turnover and I recommend the hell out of them to my mates. I've spent around £4k there in 18 months and they have sold over £5k worth of bikes and gear to my mates who would not have gone there unless I suggested it as they are much further away than the obvious local canditate. Shows that if they have the will, they do have the margin, but they have the option to say no if they want to.

Why would you not negotiate on stuff? Case in point yesterday – was after a couple of new tyres. "Internet" price £229, local branch of national chain £338. Eventually got them down to £262. If that's the price they can sell them at, I would be a mug not to get the best price I could.

Edit – yes I agree that the right to good discount is earned, not given from the off

Do you also want your car Hand built by Roberts?

No, I'm happy that some monsieur in France did it.

Rather not have it built by robots though.

What's that got to do with service industries?

I'd shop more in any one of the local bike shops if I hadn't been messed around or let down by them. Its not so much about price as it is about poor service. And having quite a few shops in a relatively small city doesn't seem to help.

No, I'm happy that some monsieur in France did it.

He welded it by hand did he? Or do you mean 'assembled in France' on an automated production line, and made as efficiently as possible to keep costs low. If you want a 'hand made' car then you have to pay ££££££'s!

What's that got to do with service industries?

You quoted the post office, a lot of the cost cutting they are trying to do is cutting jobs in areas you (as a member of the public) have no contact with. Your not going to get your post delivered by K9 and the post office wont be staffed by Cybermen, so my analogy of you car being partly bulit by robots (same quality, lower cost) is equivalent.

My lbs can suck a fat one after ripping me off for £5 for a star fangled nut and to whack it in!!!!! I was desperate so paid it. I love online parts as they don't rip me off.

Consider this scenario:
It's your annual review. Your boss says to you "times are hard, there are loads of folks unemployed out there, most of whom would love to do your job for three quarters of what we're paying you now, how about you matching that?"

My lbs can suck a fat one after ripping me off for £5 for a star fangled nut and to whack it in!!!!! I was desperate so paid it.

Well a SFN in a shop is what £1? My LBS's are ok, not great but ok. They are surviving well by adapting to the current market, one which specialises mostly in kid and commute bikes was rammed a few weekends ago, i had to wait outside while the mechanic cut, finished and installed a SFN in my new forks (i paid £5 too, but at least i got a cut and finish :0).

Consider this scenario:
It's your annual review. Your boss says to you "times are hard, there are loads of folks unemployed out there, most of whom would love to do your job for three quarters of what we're paying you now, how about you matching that?"

That happens, a mate had that this summer. Thankfully his company got its act together and they got more work so they are all back on full salary.

I would use an LBS if he could compete with on-line shops in stock & price.Only an idiot would pay more for their goods than they have to…..