STW Zwift Autumn Series 2

Robbo. Due to some people getting caught out with that process, myself last week for example due to lack of comms i didn’t see your message at all and got completely blown out the back. Wouldn’t it be easier to just accept where we ‘land’ and go from the 0.00 countdown ? Some days we’ll win, some days we’ll lose out a bit, but it does mean no-one loses out so massively because of comms/issues etc.

Thanks for the heads up @robbo1234biking !

go as fast as I can without throwing up

‘Much to learn you sill have young @rmprest’

Lesson 1 – throwing up without slowing down

What are other peoples opinions? It would save me the stress of managing the start. Would be useful if I could do a poll on the forum? Anyone got an easy way to implement a poll? I am not precious about it either way. The time differences at the start seem to account for the distance difference anyway (which weren’t there in the first race or two of the first series)

Nose where its not wanted and all but

Wouldn’t it be easier to just accept where we ‘land’ and go from the 0.00 countdown ? Some days we’ll win, some days we’ll lose out a bit,

In theory the slightly varying finish lines address this, if you start 50m back your blue banner is 50m earlier anyway.

What are other peoples opinions? It would save me the stress of managing the start. Would be useful if I could do a poll on the forum?

Honest opinion: it’s your baby and you can’t please everyone, do what works best for you and the rest of us can put up or pony up. It’s all for fun anyhow.

Assuming the ‘road’ and ‘finish’ then sorts things out, it’s simply down to a ‘grouping’ thing isn’t it. Some days you’ll get your favoured riding draft mates near you, sometimes not… but the good thing as i see it, you don’t have anyone floundering as we often see. It all seems a bit frantic…

“ok, lets got 150w…. ooooh i’m dropping back in the group….200w….. oooh here’s Robo closing, 250w.. oh he’s not saying it yet… 150…..damn he’s pulling away, 300w…. oh i’ve passed them all, 100w,….. oh i’ve fallen off the back…. go go….400w !!! ”

I’m really grateful you’ve taken the time to set this up – so would say any changes would have to be suggested to create less work for you, rather than more.

As a complete novice to meet ups, it appears we all start at the same time. If that’s the case, is it not easier to just to say everybody starts at 200w (for example) for the first two minutes to allow us to move to/sit where we want in the group, and then at two minutes precisely we go?

Anyone who goes off earlier than that earns some kind of special prize…

It could be worth trying for one week.

Honest opinion: it’s your baby and you can’t please everyone, do what works best for you and the rest of us can put up or pony up. It’s all for fun anyhow.

This.

“ok, lets got 150w…. ooooh i’m dropping back in the group….200w….. oooh here’s Robo closing, 250w.. oh he’s not saying it yet… 150…..damn he’s pulling away, 300w…. oh i’ve passed them all, 100w,….. oh i’ve fallen off the back…. go go….400w !!! ”

Every zwift ride ever.

Agree we should at least try race begins at zero. Everyone just goes. It’s by far the simplest way – think we would need to do it for a block of races and then assess, as each start prob will disadvantage a handful of riders, but it likely evens out as said.

Going from 0 probably makes more sense, and less hassle for you Robbo? We could try it tomorrow if you want. We’re all just in it for “fun” so if this makes it handier for you and prob everyone else then let’s do it.

I’d say give it a go starting at zero, must be easier than herding the STW cats!

As one of the few cat D riders in the group I don’t have much to offer on the sharp end of racing.

Just going from the beginning would probably help me not get carried away trying to stick with a cat B group when in all likely hood I’m going to get spat out of the C group at some point…

Honest opinion: it’s your baby and you can’t please everyone, do what works best for you and the rest of us can put up or pony up. It’s all for fun anyhow.

This too.

It’s not like we are next to the people we want to be with the current start arrangement anyway, no one knows when Robbo will say go and I’m usually pogo-ing all over the place before sprinting like a total loon! It’s only after the first 500m that I know if I need to push more to catch other riders or not.

Regarding the hill, I’ve had both good days and bad days on that section, it’s a tough start no doubt but it will all come down to which legs I arrive with on the day. Attack it and hope you have enough breath left to hold on for the flat afterwards.

Also, it probably makes MORE sense to just race from the ZERO.. and use the ‘cross line’ times… one of the races we did, I crossed just behind someone, but my time was LESS that theirs, because I must have started a bit further back at the start. i.e. i had an unfair advantage?

It’s worth actually looking into, TBH… like.. do we all ACTUALLY have the exact same finish line position?

I bet we don’t….

DrP

It’s worth actually looking into, TBH… like.. do we all ACTUALLY have the exact same finish line position?

I bet we don’t….

DrP

Due to the ‘race’ being a meetup, there’s very little in the options for setting anything up sadly.

I guess.. I just wonder why I can be sat next to someone, and they cross the line ahead of me, but I was ‘quicker’ according to the times. It is likely that’s the effect of starting further up/down the field at the meetup start?

I dunno

DrP

The only issue I have with this, is that tomorrow I was hoping some of that initial hill would be taken at a sedate pace whilst the group sorts itself out, then I wouldn’t have to do it all at a crazy pace… 😉

I guess.. I just wonder why I can be sat next to someone, and they cross the line ahead of me, but I was ‘quicker’ according to the times. It is likely that’s the effect of starting further up/down the field at the meetup start?

I dunno

DrP

you don’t cross the line ahead of them. The blue banner is exact for your avatar so if they started 50m behind you their blue banner is 50m before yours, sure they cross your banner a few m behind you but they already finished the distance and can’t understand why you’re still sprinting 40m down tbf road.
Is what goes screwy with the time gaps too, it’s why you call be ahead of someone on the road who is 3 seconds ahead on the sidebar.

(is also rubbish for late start as it makes you do the full distance even though you missed the first half hour)

you don’t cross the line ahead of them. The blue banner is exact for your avatar so if they started 50m behind you their blue banner is 50m before yours

ergo, starting the race from ‘where you start’ seems fairer, no..? because otherwise I may have 50m LESS to ride than you, if i start at the back of the lineup, but manage to get at the front of the bunch before the ‘go’…

Or am i confusing myself?

DrP

I think go from zero is worth trying.

Robbo’s task of getting us together at a rolling start is harder than herding cats. And on a longish hill we’ll quickly be sorted in order of W/kg rather than being in a good draft.

But whatever Robbo chooses is good with me.

@DrP everyone travels the same difference so by trying to neutralise the start we are somewhat negating it i.e. you travel the same distance as me but the first 50m are slow for you but the first 100m are slow for me as I start behind you and therefore lose some time which is represented as the time gap.

You need Gamer Sups to get your head around this stuff!

OK I think it is def worth trying from zero and this weeks course supports that so that is what we will do. NO ROLLING START THIS WEEK. So when the timer reaches zero treat it like a normal Zwift race and pedal like your life depends on it!

I will remind everyone on the start line.

Doing your homework then weeksy 🙂

This shows a worrying level of analysis and attention to detail.

So when the timer reaches zero treat it like a normal Zwift race

Well there goes my chances of not killing my self into an early bath.

mmm… gamer sups!!!

you travel the same distance as me but the first 50m are slow for you but the first 100m are slow for me as I start behind you and therefore lose some time which is represented as the time gap.

Hmm.. but..if the first 100m are slow for you, your finish line will be 50m AHEAD/SOONER than mine… so technically I’ll have more time at race pace than you… thus i’ll have a better chance of a faster time (all things being equal)?

DrP

Don’t worry Ian, life isn’t fair. Zwift isn’t fair. You’re going to get disconnected anyhow.

going to get disconnected anyhow

Or have you power ‘spikes’ at 1400W and fly past everyone.

ooh…. both true… this could go EITHER way for me….

DrP

I reckon racing from zero will impact the results too much for someone like me. Basically, if you are at the back and the fast guys are at the front then it’s quite possible you don’t make the first group, and your race is finished before it’s started. It basically Introduces a huge dose of luck into things. It may work better tomorrow as draft may not have such an impact on a hill, but normal I’m not for it. I also suspect it’ll just ensure that the faster guys go off even harder knowing a group of hangers on is less likely to form around them.

In 7 races so far I’ve not once missed the go go go so struggle to see the issue. If you are paying attention not sure how you can miss it. If you aren’t paying attention then tough luck.

Someone suggested an alternative which is robbo cycles 100 meters up the road and stops. We all then cycle up to him and stop just behind. Robbo then says go go go and everyone starts from a stationary position, but more in line than when we just spawned in the game.

My two peneth.

Thinking along a similar line to TPBiker. If we are going to do a stationary start why not start as we have been doing amble along the road a little to give time for the ride leader (Robbo) to identify and call out a feature for everybody to stop at. Give a little time for everybody to stop there then 3, 2, 1 go. On some tracks a suitable meet and start point might be well known and announced in advance.

This negates issues with some riders being caught a long way down the road and also any last minute joiners not being quite ready, not always their fault. granted it might not always cause an issue but there’s always going to be somebody who would normally jump the lead group who’s going to be left behind having started at down the road. It’s obviously a tactic for a lot of folks to jump on the lead group and try to stick with it hence the amount of rapid starts and first laps we’ve seen with lots of riders on board.

It wouldn’t matter if somebody stops slightly ahead of the start line as they will soon be caught by a group.

tpbiker
Full Member

In 7 races so far I’ve not once missed the go go go so struggle to see the issue. If you are paying attention not sure how you can miss it. If you aren’t paying attention then tough luck.

I don’t think it’s got anything to do with paying attention, or not. It’s probably more to do with practice at racing on Zwift, sensitivity/reaction time of trainer etc.

I reckon so far I’ve had a 50/50 success of being in the blob as the start is announced.

Last week, I started at what I thought was a reasonable output but was struggling to catch the group & ended up having to put in over 230w to catch up – I thought it was hold 100w at the start until blobbed, so that was a bit of a surprise.
I lifted to stop overshooting; I was still a way back from the main group but closing, & suddenly the GO GO GO message appeared. I immediately started going as hard as I could, but as I hadn’t quite closed the gap it opened up quickly & that was me stuffed.

I’d be quite happy to try starting from the zero count on the meet-up. If we don’t try it, we will never know how well it works….it might be a complete mess, but it’s only one race….

I don’t think it will hurt to try the “zero countdown and Go!” this week, it will be interesting to see what effect it has, positive or negative.

I lifted to stop overshooting;

possibly where you went wrong… due to the “sticky draft” you have to be going a fair whack faster to overshoot so it probably wouldn’t have been an issue… either way it’s better to be ahead than behind when he types GO 😃

Hopefully this new method will work… should be enough people in the meet-up that everyone can get some kind of draft at the start and then naturally blob up – although will suck if the slowest person spawns right at the back!

Starting the race from zero is fine by me. If your finish line is determined by your start point at the beginning you just need to remember where you started. I typically finish alone anyway 😭😂

Pretty excited for some racing now

Thanks @nixie looking forward to the pain! Only done one other zwift race so we’ll see what happens

No opinion on the start, I don’t know any better… probably for the best

Ok no worries let’s give it a go.

Did a recce on the course tonight – you start climbing after 400m after 600m you are hitting 6-7% so def worth a go of going as the timer hits zero tomorrow night. Will remind everyone on the start! The race is still going to split in 600m but hopefully you can find a good group.

@paino I have updated your handicap – 14w should save 55 secs of your time.

I won’t be in tomorrow because of ZRL but I am missing STW races, and want to chip in on the start issue.

For me, its not a question of missing the GO, or having race experience. I’ve done hundred of races.

For me its fairness, I am trying very hard to stay level with robbo, not be in front, and frequently GO appears to be announced when robbo is still accelerating, or mostly just when there are a large bunch in front, rather than level with or ideally behind.

Thats probably because it’s almost impossible to get a blob at slow speeds/w per kg, the variance in speed is too much, and everyone is desperate to be at the front to mitigate the delay.

Aside from saying ‘no go until 5k/30 kmh ‘ or something, to allow speed to build up and everyone to be alongside if they can, I don’t see a better system, so it is what it is.

The launch from the side of the road does not work well for me, it’s a crap shoot, because everyone does not go at the same time. Record your starts – I only know apple tv and often see people pulling out and riding across the front of me before I get to move, or me doing the same to them. Seeing everyone disappear before you have even moved does not make a nice experience, even if doing the same distance as a result.

One day Zwift will get their finger out and make it work for meetups.