STW Zwift Autumn Series 2

I liked the extra dynamic of the sprint. Lap 1 everyone seemed really cagey around it trying not to lead out. By the time someone went for it the speeds were a bit low for a fast time. Lap two I went all in going uphill. Had a nice aero to pop over the crest then hung on for as long as I could. I was expecting that someone would grab my wheel so was surprised to have the fastest time and a big gap. Lap 3 was a non event given the proximity to the end.

Thanks Robbo, sorry for the faff

Actually thought I’d done ok in the sprint but by the time I got there on the third lap some of the top times must have dropped off. Looking at the screen shot above I’d have been 8th, even though at the time I was third! Ho hum 🙂

Great racing. Got dropped at the 1st big incline and then stuck out on my own. Then came the group behind, swept me along in the draft for a while, what a relief! Nice little group we had there.

Cheers for setting up Robbo, looking forward to Saturday, not….

Without the sprint bonuses added I came 3rd on handicap, despite giving up half way through the race!😂

That surely can’t be right?

Last series I absolutely broke myself every race and would be happy with 3rd in handicap! As much as I’m delighted to get the points, are you sure your maths is correct robbo?

@oopnorth you have a few watts on me but also a few kg, we often finished in the same group in the 1st series. But I also have a weirdly big sprint that far exceeds what you’d expect from my feeble FTP, so I can dig pretty deep for a few seconds to avoid getting dropped or to power up a short hill! As a trade-off my endurance is shite though so as Robbo says I tend to lurk at the back a lot, pretty much mastered the art of wheelsucking now 😂

@andeh no problem – apologies I got it wrong!

@tpbiker – you still average 242w and your super lightweight! The hills on this course pay to your strength. You should have seen us big guys trying to get up the hills. I was doing about 350-400w to get up most of them. I think you are the lightest person in the series! You only dropped 90 seconds to nixie and having a look at your zwift data you were still averaging pretty high wattage and HR! I know our group was fast on the first lasp but the second lap was about 2 mins slower so might have been everyone backed off a bit.

Edit: And dont worry on the really hilly rides you will have a much bigger handicap!

@@Zilog6128 that explains it! 🤣 These races are great to really push myself as the handicap makes me try to stick as long as possible with those in my similar handicap group. Tonight shows that I really need to work on my hill endurance but I think my weight will always be a deciding factor. 😜 Next weeks hill start and finish will be a killer.

My ramp test yesterday was clearly rubbish – good job I didnt adjust my handicap. 256w average for 45mins and a 280w NP for an intensity factor of 1.1. Shows my FTP is about 270 ish still. Felt much better tonight.

Next weeks hill start and finish will be a killer

err, what’s the course next week ? ( 😟 )

Well done all – sounds like a great start !

 I think you are the lightest person in the series!

I do forget how much heavier everyone else is than me tbf. Thing is I don’t see myself as all that skinny. 3 years ago I was 86kg and I was a fat bastard.

Now I’m 66, but don’t look malnurashed or anything. At 5.9 maybe I’ve just got really light bones.

I dread to think how slow I’d be if I was still 86kg though!

err, what’s the course next week ?

Roule ma Poule in France.

My ramp test yesterday was clearly rubbish – good job I didnt adjust my handicap. 256w average for 45mins and a 280w NP for an intensity factor of 1.1. Shows my FTP is about 270 ish still. Felt much better tonight.

I literally have no idea how you worked that out?
I averaged 266 over an hour apparently so that includes the start and cool down I assume.
I just go by what Zwift says. It did have me at 305, just looked at it again and it’s at 290, probably from the ramp test a few weeks back and zpower says 260

Really enjoyed tonight’s race. Good tight racing. 17 points, more than my total for all 6 races in the last series 🙂

Thanks again robbo for organising

I assume I just vanished into thin air (@j-r, @tpbiker, @garry_lager?).

That’s exactly what I saw @savoyad, I thought at first you had somehow got the Cloaking powerup and were going to appear 100m up the road in 30 seconds.

It was the usual “enjoyable” pain that I expect from these races. I just held onto the lead group until I think the second sprint, when I just couldn’t make it with the fast boys and settled into a group with Garry Larger, Savoyad and TPbiker. As we got to the final climb the others accelerated so I did too and passed them feeling quite smug, until I got near the finish arch I realised Robbo’s race finish was another couple of hundred meters further. Despite that, from my view I stayed in the lead and got over the line before Gary and tpbiker but on the Zwift results they had beaten me by a few seconds – which is very weird. @Gary_Larger and @tpbiker – what did you see happening at the end?

I wonder if Zwift has different start times for everyone based on something like when you first pass the start finish or start moving at the beginning of the event. Does anybody else experience this?

But despite that it’s great racing and I am glad I managed to get in with a decent group and keep up with them.

No idea what happened at the end tbh, wasn’t paying attention! I was in a group of 3 as we came over top of hill, I thought I was second out of the 3 but thought lager was the guy who beat me. If you came past me also then wouldn’t surprise me, I’d given up pedaling just past the finish arch!

Tbh I’ve had similar where I’ve thought I’d beaten someone and not and vice versa. I don’t pay much attention when I’m rolling for the minor places as it’s the time not the placing that counts, but that said I’d be riled if I was first over the line and didn’t get the win !

I literally have no idea how you worked that out?

My Zwift data imports into TrainerRoad which gives me better metrics than you get out of Zwift. Zwift gives you TSS on the summary screen but I don’t know how you get it post ride. It is all against what it believes my FTP is – I did a ramp test yesterday and it gave it as 256w but I didn’t feel great. Today I achieved a 1.1 IF against that FTP which isn’t really possible so suggests my FTP is 5-10% low. I didn’t adjust my handicap based on my ramp test yesterday and kept it at 275.

With regards to the gaps how I think it works is as follows:

1. When you spawn Rider A starts 500m from the start finish line. Rider B spawns 400m from the start finish line so there is a 100m gap between them.
2. When the meet-up starts Zwift gives a time gap between Rider A and Rider B equivalent to the time to travel the 100m between them (1-3 seconds).
3. All riders ride the same distance – say 30km – so the finish line for Rider A will be 100m before the finish line for Rider B and at this point the gap will even itself out. So essentially you have travelled the full 30km a few seconds slower even though you were racing with them in race.

It is a quirk that only got introduced a few months ago.

All riders ride the same distance – say 30km – so the finish line for Rider A will be 100m before the finish line for Rider B

Robbo, that makes sense and also explains why the other two accelerated for the finish what appeared to me to be a bit early – my finish line must have been a bit further than theirs. Anyway, what counts is the time captured on Zwift and by that they clearly beat me by a few seconds.

Its a bit of a bummer but Zwift wont let the meet-ups ride from the pens which would make more sense. Zwift aren’t known for fixing bugs and listening to their customers though…

It’s a bit at odds with letting meet ups have race results. But then a lot of zwift’s decisions are odd.

I think as long as we’re all prepared to accept it’s rarely as precise as just beating person XYZ over the line, then it doesn’t really matter. We’re all grown ups and accept it’s not Robbos fault, just the system we have and go on happily be it for lots of points or for 1 point, it’s all good

It is a bit of a bugger, especially as once again I bust a gut in the sprint at the end to ‘beat’ someone (Crazy Harry) for the line only to have him finish 4 seconds ahead, to be fair he’d bridged a 15 second gap on the last lap to catch me by putting out serious watts on the hills time after time that I couldn’t match, then have me sit on for the last mile :). So he definitely deserved it, but it’s frstrating as hell anyway 🙂

@J-R the order we finished was you, me, TP which was the reverse of the actual result.

Riding round in our group it was apparent in the rider list that you were carrying something like 4 sec deficit and TP had a 1 sec advantage, relative to me – created by the start anomaly that Rob has explained. So I guess if you see that you have to think there’s no way you can overhaul that in a final sprint and plan accordingly.

Exactly the reverse happened in the last series on Innsbruck, where I beat you in the sprint but you beat me in the results, because I was carrying the deficit – so Zwift giveth and Zwift taketh away 🙂

So I guess we all just have to sprint our balloches off for the line, and let the chips fall where they may – but the rider list will tip you off to how you’re placed so there is the opportunity to act.

Am I wrong in thinking that times of the people you are riding with give you an indication that although you’re together on the road there can be a time gap between you. For instance yesterday I was riding a lot of the time with J Osborn and T Ward (thanks guys and sorry I was a sleeping partner) and when I was with T Ward he was at – 2 secs to me although we were together so it was apparent that even if I had managed to stay with him I was never going to win the sprint.

Not if you’re using a phone it won’t as you can’t actually see the numbers 😀

Too late! Ah that explains it.

I hate those starts – the speed is so slow that I’m either slowing to get behind robbo or feathering to try and stay close. I really would prefer a minimum speed and distance or w/kg before the go, like 20km/h and 3k or 2.5w/kg something, to give a proper chance to blob up.

Anyway, I missed the go, but that was entirely irrelevant since I cramped up about 5k in trying to get back on. Had hoped to do the ZRL and this series, but body says no.

Will keep trying though !.

Ah, now I get the timings on the right hand side of the screen, I wondered how there was a pack in front of me but all had different time advantages.

It’s a difficult one to gauge as yesterday I thought we had a good 5 or 6 seconds on the group behind then next thing I knew they were charging through us, obviously they had been closer than it was suggested.

Just something we need to accept until pen starts happen (if ever!) and take it into account if you are riding for a position with those next to you, just look at the numbers at the side and that will show you how you need to sprint in the final seconds.

The starts are what they are, yes you have to keep on the ball and I can see someone being caught out once but more than that then only yourself to blame 😉

Ditto the weird timings/different position of the finish… if anything it should encourage more big moves rather than just drafting someone, beating them in the sprint finish but STILL losing 😂

well I am pleasantly surprised to be top of the table! Although the sweat pouring out of all parts of my body may disagree.

I was happy with being at the front of the race for about 5 seconds at the start and keeping with the pro’s until 4km in (the first short sharp climb). I had achieved all that I thought I would!

A bit gutted the sprint points only go to the first 5 places, as I ended 6th. But super chuffed with the final result.

I was in the 3rd group on the road once I had been dropped by the front and got swallowed up. it made life easier keeping pace with others. I was super surprised to see us catch Robbo & Oopnorth’s group. You guys were a solid 30odd seconds in front for most of it. I guess our group was working hard but together to reel you in.

Then it was a case of trying to not let anyone break away, keep digging deep and try and sprint for the finish!

Thanks again for organising this Robbo, its the most pain/fun I have had in a while!

J-R the order we finished was you, me, TP which was the reverse of the actual result.

I wasn’t paying attention but quite possibly. Although haven’t we established that the finish line moves for everyone? Either way unless I’m missing the obvious I’m assuming that it makes no odds whether I come 6th, 7th or 8th from a points scoring perspective. Assuming that is that I cross the line on the wheel of the chap in front, I’ll get same time, and it’s the time that counts rather than the position?

Would be Useful to know as all last series my aim at the end of races was to just finish in the pack, rather than sprint for a higher position. Given in nearly all the races the bunch was fighting for 2nd or 3rd rather than the win, the extra effort seemed kinda pointless!

Assuming that is that I cross the line on the wheel of the chap in front, I’ll get same time

No TPB, I don’t think Zwift works like that, it gives each rider their own time.

And the discussion here is about the extra complexity of the end point being a little different for each person in the race, depending on where they originally spawned. So even if you think you finished alongside another rider, your Zwift time might be a few seconds different.

Just had a look on the “feature suggestions” part of the Zwift forums, someone suggested having the option to start meetups from the pen back in Aug, didn’t get much support though! Can’t hurt to add a vote and/or comment here:
https://forums.zwift.com/t/meetup-race-with-start-on-the-grid/506154

Sounds like fun, I’ll try and get my Zwift set back up in time for next weeks race. Final club ride tonight before lockdown begins, I’ve been trying to put off indoor training for as long as I can… Do we post back on here with Zwift username to get added?

No idea what my FTP is now, haven’t done a test since last winter.

I’ve commented on that forum suggestion…

I like the fact that the thread has a number of names I recognise 🙂

This was a frustrating but, in the end, a strong race for me. Zwift decided to throw some sort of a fit on me at the beginning. As soon as Robbo went Go Go Go my Zwift avatar decided to start “coasting” even though I was pedaling like fury. In the few seconds it took to sort itself out, everyone already had a 100m head start on me. Tried to power it out to catch up to the back of the pack as quickly as possible but could not get in touch with the leaders, so just had to keep my head down and TT it to the end. Picked off a couple of groups and stragglers that I guess had dropped off the lead, and thought I might have the legs to catch a couple more but ran out of energy and laps in the end. Have to be happy with a 5th place finish given the start.

Frustrating race for me too, got my best 1 min power and 5 min power but wasted way to much energy on the front and trying to make a break for it a couple of times. Normally I can stick with the fast boys for the first ten k’s but with the climbs that didn’t work. Onwards and upwards

No TPB, I don’t think Zwift works like that, it gives each rider their own time

Right you are..It does seem to add or subtract a few seconds for no real reason which may in rare situation make a difference to the points I suppose

I guess what I meant though is for the purposes of the results robbo pulls together it doesn’t matter if I personally get 5th or 6th as my time will be same regardless, and as such my points will be the same. Ie there is no point in me madly sprinting to beat someone on the line by a wheel as it won’t make a bit of difference to the points I get. So in last night’s case, whilst i appear to have gained 4 sec on jr due to zwift irregularities, id have done that regardless of whether i finished just infront of him or just behind him?

So for me it makes no difference. However if I was in with a shout of winning a sprint for 1st I could see how it may piss me off a bit. That said I’d like to think I’d own up if I was credited a race win when I clearly wasn’t first over line, and I’m sure others would as well.