So what makes a bike “sluggish” or “zippy” then?

Take say Lapierre Spicy (160mm travel, 30lbs), and Zesty (140mm travel, 27lbs, but pretty much the same frame

Now according to the STW massive, 3 lbs in weight is no more than a good early morning dump, but ST tests talk about the Spicy being quite hard work, whilst the Zesty is zippier, better climber, and more UK friendly

Spicy has slightly bigger tyres (2.4 Continental Mountain King vs 2.2’s) but I wouldn’t have thought that would make that much difference.

Someone somewhere on here talked about their bike being fairly hard work uphill, which they could live with, but also hard work “across hill”, which they couldn’t.

So what is the magic factor that makes 2 pretty similar bikes ride differently ?

Colour, logo, Hope/Chris King headset and Pike/Revelation forks. Ideally – red paint, white components, Thomson stem and post, Hope clamps/release/headset. And Avid brakes with SLX running close second 🙂

You’d be surprised how much difference a set of tyres can make

The rider?

I’m hardly a mountain bike expert but in my experience tyres can make a huge difference (rotating weight and all that), changing from heavy (800g+) Marathon XR tyres to something more in the 500g-600g range was a revealation. Tred pattern can make a big difference too, it’s not really a comparable situation but I do a fair bit of road riding on my mountain bike which is equipped with Intense System 3 semi-slicks. I fancied trying something with a bit more bite for off-road and tried 1.9″ Kenda Small Blocks 8. The Kendas were about 80g a tyre lighter than the Intenses but took noticably more effort to ride – they were pretty draggy. Now of course drag is probably just the flipside of grip but it did make a big difference to how the bike rode for myself.

Rotational weight makes a big difference (wheels, tyres) as does suspension travel/action/quality. Sprung weight is less of an issue.

In the case of the Lapierre Spicy Vs Zesty, taking the 516 and 514 you’re looking at an extra 300g or so on the wheels, probably the same again on the tyres. That will make a fair difference on the ups!

Suspension wise, it can depend on whether you’re a smooth pedaller or not. If you are a smooth pedaller, you may find 160mm of rear travel doesn’t bother you uphill, if you’re not smooth, then even a short travel bike will annoy you!

Put it this way, if you put 3lb of lead inside the seat tube on a Zesty, it would probably still be easier/quicker to ride uphills than a Spicy, but how much worse to ride uphills the Spicy would be is down to the individual riders riding style. Try em both and see what suits is the easy answer!

“Now according to the STW massive, 3 lbs in weight is no more than a good early morning dump”

Then i’m not in the massive. 3lb is a lot.

The rolling resistance of tyres makes a big difference to perceived speed, probably actual speed too, but there’s plenty on STW who would argue about that! 🙂

I think it’s probably harder to make a longer travel bike feel “zippy” because you’ll have a bit more suspension squat as you accelerate and of course longer travel bikes are often/usually heavier in the frame and a lot of the components.

okay – so put the 2.2’s on the Spicy and it will ride the same as the Zesty?

oh and Hairychested – looks like the secret is to have 2 head-sets ?

No, because it’ll still weigh 2.5lb more and have more travel.

Lose the weight, swap the tyres, firm up the suspension and it’ll be a bit closer.

Tyres make a huge difference – as does imo / ime a few punds in weight.

I run tyres varying from Gazzalodis to speed kings on the same bike and boy can you tell – both the difference in weight and the rolling resistance

okay – so put the 2.2’s on the Spicy and it will ride the same as the Zesty?

Spicy wheels are still about 300g heavier than a Zesty like for like (Shimano XT M775 XC Vs XT M776 AM)

Then other parts are a bit heavier, most notably the frame I should think.

Incidentally, if you can dump 3lb in the morning whilst sat on the throne, I would suggest you probably need to go to the toilet more than once a week!

without looking im presuming the angles will be different which regardless of weights will make a difference. then as gf says bigger travel bikes seem very different over short travel in terms of zip if thats a term lol

i noticed a huge difference when i went from bog standard wheels to dt240 on olympics with light tyres it was like a new bike. that said ive now sold them ,as tho they were great on the anthem when i put them on the five inch bike they felt all floppy . it was weird 😉 it now is defo more sluggish (ive gone for bigger tyres too) its a lot more solid and will suit my crap style much more . horses for courses 😉

I don’t know the answer to this, but I want to know who’s been weighing their poo?

Sounds a bit anal to me.

me me me – that the answer to the original post not chakaping

but also what about pedal weight? got some shimano cleat oneside / flat other that unexpectedly weighed a lot

As above – tyres make a big difference, as do wheels.
A couple of lb lighter is ALWAYS nice to have.
But its nothing some extra strength/fitness/MTFU cannot cope with…

The direction of the wind.

The first time I rode an 06 Remedy was on the Gap Route in Wales. By the time I got to the top I’d practically lost the will to live. I was knackered. A second ride in the Forest of Dean, following a mate freewheeling down a hardpack section had me having to pedal to keep up with him. The standard issue tyres then were Bonty Big Earl 2.3’s, which are amazingly grippy on rocks and roots, but on hardpack? Jeeze, they’re hard work. Apart from the sticky Gumbi rubber, the damn things weigh 900gm! I now have 2.2 ACX’s on the bike, which makes a huge difference, even the 2.35 ACX’s on my Inbred roll faster and are less work. Swapping the forks on the Inbred for a pair two pounds lighter have made a difference there as well.

Tyres make a hell of a difference. The rolling resistance of my winter tyres (Maxis Swamp Thing) is markedly higher than my regular ones (Kenda Nevegal). But of course they give a lot more grip in the mud, especially on climbs, and that more than makes up for it.