So I want to try road racing + build a bike specifically for this

Reading the last few posts I can’t help but feel that I’m bringing a knife to gun fight
https://www.strava.com/activities/891455834
ftp 223, ~3.2W/kg

This week’s lesson in racing is that a night out in Durham is poor preparation for a crit in Shrewsbury, although I didnt get shelled until around the 30 minute mark, and part of that was caused by having to take a grassy detour coming out of the bottom hairpin whilst trying to move up

https://www.strava.com/activities/925072171

Looks like your knife is sharp though jd77 😉
You hung at 25mph for 30mins- nothing wrong with that. Better positioning and following the right wheel would have probably got you to the finish..

What did you expect doing it with a hangover?!? 😛

May have done some more adjustment to the bike (no size changes, it’s perfect now)

Before:

After:

The new position forces me to bend my elbows, it’s also much easier to grab the gears/brakes. I was actually complemented by a driver earlier for my quick reactions as a woman decided to turn left into a side street right in front of me – so it all works 😆

Looks great. I’m surprised you didn’t go for a gold ladder though? 😆

Ha that’s the decorators..

Looking at the pics again I think my saddle has slid back… 😳

Looks like your knife is sharp though jd77
You hung at 25mph for 30mins- nothing wrong with that. Better positioning and following the right wheel would have probably got you to the finish..

I suppose I should look at it that way, and at least I was starting to move up when I had to go offroad

What did you expect doing it with a hangover?!?

Would you believe that plan A was to attack early on and see what happened? 🙂 that went out of the window after about 15 seconds when the pack was strung out at 30mph after the 1st corner

The bike looks mint, just need to get an out front gps mount to save a few extra watts 😉

Here’s mine with my race wheels and a specialized pavé seatpost fitted

Well that was emotional 😀

Decided to have power showing, went a fraction too hard to start I’d say. HR was at FTHR after 5mins so nothing to do but cling on for dear life!

Ended up with 178bpm average so I can probably tweak my HR zones up a notch.

My FTP was exactly what Strava said it was for the year- 297w.

So… small increase to 3.46w/kg but a 13% increase in FTP since 10th Nov 2016 and the last comparable test.

I’ve also survived 8 weeks of Base training without slipping back so a return to intervals this week should push things on again.

If I can lift it another 13% in the next 6/7 months and drop a kilo or two, then 4.0w/kg should be obtainable by the end of year 🙂

2/3/4 at pimbo for me today. I had a 22 mile ride to get there so wasn’t expecting to get much other than bunch experience out of it (I mainly do TTs so sometimes get a bit nervous in bunch stuff and need to do more of it to get more comfortable). God it was boring! There were a couple of half hearted attacks in the first half but nothing stuck and in the second half of the race I felt like I was rolling round in zone 2 until the last lap or two. The garmin file says it was a bit harder than that but it got to the point where everyone knew that no one would get away so no one even bothered trying!

You sound like Nath and Blobby 😀 I long for the day when I see Z2… then I’ll know I’ve finally become a Crit racer 😆

To be fair pimbo was a 45 mile road race on a course with no technical features or hills so it was never going to be the same intensity as a crit. A few attacks were covered in the first hour but then everyone seemed to settle in and wait for the sprint without even bothering to attempt any attacks so it got a little dull for the last 15 miles or so!

Arrrggghhh!! Racing with the big boys tomorrow!

I did Strava-stalk last years Tuesday night 3/4’s and they looked like they were no faster than the Winter Series/ WDMC ones have been.
However, Johnny raced there on Saturday in a 3/4 that was 27mph!!!!!

If that happens, it’s gonna be humble pie for dinner I think 😆

I think the sunshine and wind or lack of it compared to winter could play a factor as people get a bit fitter, lighter and the conditions improve.

Looking at your feed etc, i’d say without doubt you’re quicker, faster, stronger than you’ve ever been, so if you’re going to do well, this is likely to be when you will 🙂

I’m kind of back to just wanting to finish with the bunch tomorrow although obviously another tick on TiReds list would be nice (top 1/3).
I’ve entered Thruxton next Tuesday instead as it’s Cat4 only and then I’ll decide which I prefer as this isf supposed to be fun too 😆

I offloaded a shedload of fatigue without too much loss to my fitness score last week so no excuses really!

Thruxton… interesting… tell us more…

http://www.behindthebikeshed.co.uk/content/behind-the-bikeshed-s-thruxton-summer-series-2017-dates-announced.aspx

Bah, can’t get to facebook in the office. Plus i don’t have a FB account anyway lol

Look on BC.

It’s just a 4th cat Crit around Thruxton. MrBlobby did some last year. It’s closer of course and Cat 4 only in the race I’ll do so perhaps more chance..

I can’t imagine it’s as fun as Hillingdon as the corners are designed for slightly higher speeds perhaps 😆

I found Castle Coombe to be quite fun even with the corners being for higher speeds. Some of the corners still felt tight at 30mph in a bunch. The average speeds are high!

I think it will be an absolute blast CH, the hill coming back to the chicane/pits may be your downfall against the whippets though.

Thruxton. MrBlobby did some last year. It’s closer of course and Cat 4 only in the race I’ll do so perhaps more chance..

I did about 3 rounds there a couple of years ago. Didn’t enjoy it much and it put me off crits until this thread popped up. Consensus seemed to be that the course usually resulted in a sprint finish and racing was pretty negative (at least in the 4’s.)

Castle Coombe I think would be more fun.

Did the Keith Carter Memorial race yesterday.. it was a brutal affair. Its a 50 mile 3/4 race but yesterday was much tougher than previous years, according to strava, 8% faster than 2016 when a team mate TT specialist managed to solo off the front for the entire race, this year he was dropped.

Course had 3300ft of climb for 50 miles and all the climb came in 1 mile of each lap, this year a headwind made it an even bigger test

There were 2 sustained breakaways, the second only caught in the last 8 miles, by which time the peleton had been shredded to 15 of which I was one. On the penultimate climb however I got cramp and had to pull up, gutted! Looking at the top 3 I think they had the power to race at 1st cat or elite level.

Just returning to the how important is FTP question, I did my first fast chain gang of the year last week, and although my FTP is pretty much as good as it’s ever been at around 4.4W/kg, I suffered like a dog for a 80 minute ride that had a NP of 280W (which should be pretty ok – bang on 4W/kg for me). I had done a 230km ride two days before, which contributed to my bad legs, but looking at my power file, I spent virtually no time at all at threshold or tempo. I was either soft pedalling at recovery/endurance power (45 minutes) or at vo2 max/anaerobic capacity levels (22 minutes). I think the ability to recover from big efforts quickly is just as, if not more, important than FTP for road riding and racing.

I cant see the relevance of FTP in road racing. I have no idea what mine is, I suspect it is just below 300. But in racing you are putting in various efforts ranging from anaerobic to recovery based on the terrain and bunch dynamic. I think that sprinting and climbing repeat efforts are much better to focus on as on race circuits you will be doing both of these things a lot!

I read my “ftp” from retrospective hard races. The really brutal circuit races that are an hour long and just full-on. Tuesday E123’s at Hillingdon are just this, no recovery time and a roller-coaster ride.

I did a 25 TT yesterday and really struggled to get my heart rate into Z4 at all, so no FTP test there. This was on the back of 1200 km in three weeks. So recovery today and this week with no long rides.

Would like to cheer on CH in the 34 tomorrow and really love the E123 race, but I have a vets race Wednesday and a handicap on Thursday. Decisions, decisions.

Re FTP-
The thing is, virtually everything else is subjective. Strava times, race results, TT routes etc etc all depend on external factors such as wind, who else turns up and so on.
So while I think a fast recovery and 2-5 min power is what wins Crits, I’m hoping doing a consistently repeatable test every few months will at least give me a guide to my progress.

Also, to clarify, I only think the 4w/kg figure is important for me if the rest of my power curve increases by the same amount if that makes sense 🙂

My bike is prepared for tomorrow, I don’t have a place as such but I’m hoping they can squeeze me in. 😆

FTP means nothing in racing, like we’ve said it’s all about recovery times. However as CH as said it’s an indicator as to whether or not your fitness level is increasing and another benchmark to compare yourself against others with.

Going to hopefully get a bike fit booked in next month, with my saddle moving itself backwards I found it more comfortable than it’s current “correct” position. I’ve gone for a median approach for tomorrow. 😳

FTP means nothing in racing, like we’ve said it’s all about recovery times.

These 2 things are actually the same thing!*

When you do an effort above threshold you are dipping in to your anaerobic work capacity (W’). In order to recover, you need to drop down below threshold. How far below you can drop determines how fast your body can recover ready for the next effort.

You should do a bit of reading on Anaerobic Wok Capacity / W Prime – it can be a really useful tool to help you with intervals.

*Actually, this is Critical Power (CP), FTP would be the point just above cp where you will end up reducing W’ to zero over a 1 hour effort. But these 2 things are very close in real terms.

You should do a bit of reading on Anaerobic Wok Capacity / W Prime – it can be a really useful tool to help you with intervals.

Interesting stuff (at least for someone with a Biochemistry degree :-))

I suppose the danger from worrying too much about CP/FTP etc is that you can suck the fun out of riding, especially when its nice out (I’ve no problem with flogging myself on the trainer during the winter months.

I suppose the danger from worrying too much about CP/FTP etc is that you can suck the fun out of riding

Indeed. But this thread is about racing. And if you want to really enjoy your racing, then training really needs to be structured and goal oriented. (unless you’re a real masochist, and the real enjoyment of racing is from hanging off the back chewing the bars for an hour before getting dropped!)

But I always try to incorporate some unstructured rides into my schedule. Also social rides with friends are a good way to shut off from the power meter.

I think the thing is to forget about FTP as an absolute number and more consider it in terms of its actual significance as Lactate Threshold.

My NP in a race isn’t far off of my FTP. Hence my 1450w sprint doesn’t get a look in because I’m too knackered!
So I either need to raise my FTP so that the 290 odd watts I’m using to finish the race correlates to about Z3- or be braver in the bunch and use less watts to get to the last lap!!

CH has been educating me on this stuff after my comment 😆

Since Zwift season is now over I’m REALLY struggling to do structured training. If I go out for a ride I’ll do random sprints for segments (such as broomfield hill in strava central park) but that’s about as far as it goes.

I’ve tried doing Z1/Z2 rides outside, it doesn’t work for me, even with headphones in I get really bored and can’t face another cyclist overtaking me. 😳

Today’s tactics, should I get a place, is to sit with the bunch and get myself comfortable in there (not sitting at the back for 40 mins then start to work). Purely racing for fun today – not intending to walk away with a point(s).

I don’t think you need to worry Nath- just continue doing what has got you this far 😉
You’ve got enough fitness in hand to get a bit further I reckon….

A bit further?

If you did a training plan for me imagine the possibilities 8)

(and if I could stop eating like a gannet….)

I’m trying to stick with zwift a bit longer as last year I really lost structure once the club TT season kicked off in April and I peaked way too early. I may drop down to once per week though.

Speaking of which I’m now heading into a run of TTs so no more bunch stuff til early may at the earliest.

I’d get someone with a few more achievements under their belt to write the plan 😆

(Perhaps even one would be a start 😉 )

Indeed. But this thread is about racing. And if you want to really enjoy your racing, then training really needs to be structured and goal oriented. (unless you’re a real masochist, and the real enjoyment of racing is from hanging off the back chewing the bars for an hour before getting dropped!)

But I always try to incorporate some unstructured rides into my schedule. Also social rides with friends are a good way to shut off from the power meter.

i find it really difficult to do proper structured training outside, so my road rides end up being pretty unstructured. In order to get some improvement, last year I decided to join one of the fast training rides in the area
Mammoth Chainy which at least gives me high intensity ride each week. It’s also reasonably (type 2) fun.

I also try to make sure i get at least 1 MTB ride per week to try and break up the ‘effort’ rides (which is basically anytime I get on the road bike)

My NP in a race isn’t far off of my FTP. Hence my 1450w sprint doesn’t get a look in because I’m too knackered!
So I either need to raise my FTP so that the 290 odd watts I’m using to finish the race correlates to about Z3- or be braver in the bunch and use less watts to get to the last lap!!

My NP for my last 3 races has been around 238W, which suggests that A) my ftp might be set a bit low, and B) I spend too much time at the back of the field 🙂

I think you probably put out enough power to be in the mix at the sharp end of races, so the areas for improvement are positioning (comes with experience) and weight loss (comes with riding more). you may also want to work on your flexibility and core strength so that you can spend more time in an aero position

Today’s tactics, should I get a place, is to sit with the bunch and get myself comfortable in there (not sitting at the back for 40 mins then start to work). Purely racing for fun today – not intending to walk away with a point(s).

good luck nath 🙂

Well that was really good fun! It felt the safest bunch I’ve ever ridden in.
The only moment came a few laps in when one lad CX’d it up the bank at the start of the main straight. I had to burn a serious match to get back on but at least I avoided crashing into him.

Nath and I found ourselves on the front row by accident and Nath followed through on his joke to launch a CX style attack off the line. Luckily he eased up after 300m 😆

NP was 295w, speed was 27mph until two laps to go when I quietly dropped off the back of the bunch.

I was quite pleased that my two solo laps after that were 2min25 each though- that’s a solo PB.

With hindsight, I probably wasn’t aggressive enough. There weren’t too many opportunities to move up but once or twice I did and instead of carrying my momentum to the front, I sat in about half way back.

On a few occasions, I spotted the front going ballistic way before the guys around me which meant I was able to follow the move much easier than them as I didn’t give the elastic as much room to stretch as they did.

The weather helped of course, but it was a great evening (if a little short lived lol!) and if I don’t enjoy Thuxton next week then I’ll not hesitate to come back- I didn’t feel out of my depth.

Haha it was too hard to resist when being at the front of the start. I found myself at the front a couple more times by accident.

I stuck to my plan though, stayed mid bunch all the way through building my confidence and trust in those around me.

I’m glad I wasn’t the only person shocked when they announced it would be 5+5 only (circa 10 miles). This blew my chillout with the bunch out of the water.

My normalised power isn’t showing up: https://www.strava.com/activities/938058299

Heart rate much higher than usual as I’ve had 3 coffees today and my stomach was cramped (not supposed to have coffee or cows milk 😳 ).

I was surprised it wasn’t faster than it was after they said that! Seeing a few of the guys warming up, I thought some would break but it seemed like it stayed together??

My Speed drills have paid off. Cadence was up to 92 average and I was happy through the bends at 100+ I was also able to follow moves with some 120rpm bursts rather than having to change up.

Everyone at the front was just waiting for someone to make a move, but it never came. Normally that’s when I do something silly because I can’t hold my nerve/get bored.

I headed down to Hillingdon today to do a few laps to shake off last night, however a club had booked it so I left them to it.

Annoyed at a wasted 12 mile trip on some of the crapiest roads for a cyclist I decided to do an FTP test to see where I’m at.

FTP Test 1 07/02/17 = 305w

FTP Test 2 12/04/2017 = 315w

Happy with that, although I’m wondering If I had done it while fresher/not having ridden to hillingdon and back as to whether it would have been higher.

BUT it’s nice to see an increase! I’ll do them monthly to see where I’m at.