So I fitted all season tyres…

I would argue almost nobody needs winter tyres judging by this Autoexpress test. They tested various winter tyres but included an all season (Goodyear Vector Gen 3) and a summer.

Snow braking it got 95% of the performance of the best winter. That was better than half the winter tyres.

Snow traction 94% as good as the best winter. Snow handling 98% as good.

Not many people need that last 5% when you can just run one set of tyres all year and be 95% as good on snow..

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/product-group-tests/93097/best-winter-tyres

Ive got winters on steels and change them over in autumn. I used to go for just winter or all season all year round but its bloody annoying when you get to winter and they are down to 3-4mm. You know they would be ok for a summer but not really fit for winter. Now i’ll replace my summers when they wear out, and when the winters wear down i’ll use them through summer to wring the last use out of them before changing.

TBH I think the really impressive thing with the best modern allseasons isn’t really the bad weather performance, it’s the good weather performance. Or rather it’s the “both ends” performance, it’s clearly much harder to do a tyre that does everything well than it is to make compromises somewhere, and have decent snow and decent wet and decent dry compared to, say, terrible snow, good wet good dry, or as with traditional winter tyres great snow, good wet bad dry. Winters have got better at this too. Arguably a lot of “normal tyres” and supersports and supertouring got worse and probably have stayed there. T

(one thing I always think about these tests is they tend to miss the real nasties, refrozen ice, mixed up slush-and-ice, etc. Snow is not that bad in comparison! But those conditions are just really difficult to test for fairly, and I reckon they might really divide some otherwise good performing tyres. But there’s even allseasons that seem to really deal with that well, while not all snow tyres really do.)

There’s still the whole wear thing (ie, winter performance falling off so much faster as you lose sipes and depth, which is hard to manage on a single set of wheels) but that’s just not enough for most people.

Modern tyres are just ace.

There’s still the whole wear thing (ie, winter performance falling off so much faster as you lose sipes and depth, which is hard to manage on a single set of wheels) but that’s just not enough for most people.

id still prefer a worn set of all seasons over a new set of summers – or worse as comes with most cars these days “eco summer” with a similar compound to cheap rollerblade wheels of the 1990s

My CC2s have been on the car for 3 years and 30000+ miles, and still have loads of tread. I was amazed when my MOT report came back and told me how many mm’s of tread were left. Not cheap to buy, but seem to have lasted brilliantly. I had Hankook Kinergys on a previous car and they were great too.

I’ve had Conti Cargo Vector 2 M+S all seasons on my VW T6 camper van from about 500 miles after delivery, when I swapped out and e-bayed the rubbish OEM tyres. Very happy with them and on my second set, first ones lasted 35K, and they are stocked and fitted by Costco! https://www.flickr.com/photos/cojacal/54038091099/in/dateposted/

That Autoexpress test ignored some of the  Winter tyres that perform best in the ADAC tests. The ADAC vids for various sizes are on Youtube. I need a couple of proper Winters as a pair are both ageing and below 4mm, Michelin Alpin 6 again.

the original Goodyear OEM tyres on the rear failed the MOT earlier this year, after nearly five years, so the CC2’s went on the back, and I’ve got Continental all-seasons on the front

Why? You want the better tyres on the back, understeer > oversteer.

Source: Honda Civic with a waggly arse with lift off oversteer.

squirrelking
Free Member

Why? You want the better tyres on the back, understeer > oversteer.

Well. it’s complicated. Most importantly it’s not just as simple as “understeer > oversteer” because often it actually ends up “just go round the corner without any fuss > understeer or oversteer” if you have more grip on the front, the probability change as well as the outcomes. You get different losses of control but you are probably in more overall control more of the time, especially when you drive accordingly and carefully.

In really low grip conditions especially it can amount to “stop but in a big ugly skid” or “change directions while shitting yourself” > “just hit the thing”. But a big difference is that with the grip on the back and not enough on the front you can’t steer around things, whereas at least with grip on the front but not the back you have a chance.

The standard advice of course is “better on back” and if you have to live by a rule that’s the one to live by. But really it’s not so simple and people and vehicles differ and IME that gets much more extreme in bad conditions. I did a few years with winters front and anti-winters on the back on one of my old cars and it worked great- the front did almost all the braking, all the drive, all the engine braking, all the steering, the rear only had to follow and needed a fraction of the grip to do that. Whereas when I experimented on the same car with the winters on the back according to the advice it was a dart looking for something to go straight into. It could slow down in better control but it took easily twice as far to actually stop, and it couldn’t steer. There’s literally no question that for me, on that particular shitbox, it was the correct option. 4 winters would be better of course but 4 normal tyres would be worse. Over enough miles I reckon you’d have 50 incidents but all pointing forwards, for every 1 or 2 incidents pointing the wrong way. I would rather crash going forwards, but I would rather not crash, I would rather not hit the kid at all rather than have an argument about whether they’d rather be hit with the nose or the boot. Equally to all that, on my current car I reckon that’d suck.

Equally if you’re the sort of idiot that goes “I’ll drive as fast as I can til I lose traction” then it’s a REALLY GOOD RULE. And a lot of people are like that. Or are low awareness, or have never really encountered a skid and will be working it out for the first time ever when they’re trying not to hit someone. So for sure if in any doubt it’s the way to go, but IMO it is not something to be a slave to,it is good general advice.

The way people drive in snow and ice is just… aaagh. Appalling. And no I am not Surf-Mat. But you don’t need to be a driving god, by my observations you just have to not suck. or be incredibly stupid or just ignoring the conditions entirely or be obsessed with trying to get going while giving no thought to stopping and turning, to be probably in the top 10% of drivers in snow or ice.

Sorry that got really big!

Less tread equals more grip in the dry, more grip in the damp, less grip when it’s properly wet and less grip on snow. Touring car racers obliged to use road tyres used to put them in a lathe and skim the tread down to just enough to last the race. The main reason that full Winters have less grip in the dry is that the tread blocks tip under braking and cornering forces. Those off us who’ve run full Winters to the death over Summer know that when they’re nearly worn out and the tread doens’ flex as much they grip really well in the dry and damp.

I’m lazy so just put the new tyres the end that was worn out.

Source: Honda Civic with a waggly arse with lift off oversteer.

Understeer/oversteer is a bit of a moot point in a modern car with ESP. It works really well

Coming from a motorsport background I don’t like most road tyres. Many have a hang on then completely let go character. So I drive accordingly, slowly. The tyres I used in motorsport on the other hand retained remarkable levels of grip at quite extreme slip angles. I’m willing to sacrifice some ultimate grip for tyres that don’t have that all then next to nothing breakaway characteristic. The Cross Climates and Alpin 6 have some of that “feel”, nowhere near enough to be able to drive like on race tyres though – so I don’t, I bumble along with the rest of the road users leaving a generous gap.

Caution rather than ultimate barking performance.

Caution rather than ultimate barking performance.

Woof?

What tyres for dog agility?

Husky snow chains.

There are two objective measures I would (mostly) trust mug punters to be able to report – what they paid, how many miles they did in them. That’s also most folk here, myself included. Everything else is full of post purchase rationalisation.

I’ve noticed next to zero difference between any of the mid priced all seasons tyres I have had fitted. They’ve all successfully got me moving (and stopping) in the odd days of snow and/or more frequent near-freezing cold and wet, but… you know… drive appropriately according to conditions etc etc. All have worn in similar mileage.

Summers in winter? The scariest experience for me was getting caught out at work a few years back after just changing cars and having not yet got around to changing tyres – worn summer treads in fresh snow… 15mph all the way home with very careful braking and turning. Wife’s car was night and day by comparison on the (predictable choice for this thread) all seasons.

Understeer/oversteer is a bit of a moot point in

…absolutely any mass produced car driven at speeds appropriate for the conditions? This is commuting, not the BTCC.

I’ve noticed next to zero difference between any of the mid priced all seasons tyres I have had fitted.

I have noticed a few modest differences – the Galaxy came with some low rolling resistance Goodyear somethings all round but they felt really odd on wet or cold days around roundabouts and similar. Putting other tyres on made a big difference. But you are right, the differences day to day are minimal.

The difference for 6 months of the year between summer tyres and all season tyres when living in central Scotland is noticeable. All seasons, depending on which model/marketing offer significant benefits in wet, cool and cold roads.

In proper, sub-zero cold I can really feel a difference. My house is at the bottom of a north facing hill. I have many a morning when driving out in all seasons is a ‘non event’, but using the summers my cars usually have when I buy a new to me car can be ‘exciting’, and descending at the end of the day even less secure. And of course being further north than many and driving around rural Scotland for work, I bump into cold, cool and wet conditions very regularly.

Understeer/oversteer is a bit of a moot point in

Indeed but confidence in the front tires doing there thing leads to overconfidence in the rear.

By the time you realise it….it’s too late your doing an impression of a 1980s yuppy porker

I see your question mark, mrmonkfinger. I absolutely agree with your sentiment but I’m still a fan of ABS and ESP (and my favourite tyres) for those once or twice in a lifetime and only if you’re unlucky moments.

For example bumbling along a route departementale in les Landes at the legal limit when one of the drivers coming the other way decides there’s enough room to overtake when there isn’t. It’s then that all the safety legislation, testing and homologation become your friend. Brake, avoid, two wheels on the grass and the car is still pointing in the right direction.

One day I hope cars will be automatically limited to the speed limit. Till then however careful you are you might someday be thankful for a bit of technology and some grippy rubber. Since the snow-flake tyres only rule in the mountains in France very few cars are seen slithering around using too much road or getting stuck.

Indeed but confidence in the front tires doing there thing leads to overconfidence in the rear.

I refer you to ‘driven appropriately’…

That said. I do appreciate that plenty of weapons grade progress makers are out there behind a steering wheel.

I’m still a fan of ABS and ESP (and my favourite tyres) for those once or twice in a lifetime and only if you’re unlucky moments

I don’t disagree, these things are all good things, in particular ABS, that makes brakes brake better than any human can.

I’ve the Pirelli’s from the Auto Test Link above on my winter wheels, basically swap after the the clocks change and swap back before the clocks change in the Spring.

They work better than either summer or all-season tyres on my OH’s various 4×4 SUV’s in winter ‘weather’  (helped by it being an x=Drive) and still have good performance when pushing it on dry roads.  They do wear though, near enough twice the rate of the summer Bridgestones (had the car 6 years and nearly 70k).

Live in the very rural Scottish Borders, up an unclassified (and untreated road) so will continue with summer/winter swaps.

Been running all season tyres on my van(s) for the last ten years.

Being in Germany I couldn’t be dealing with the faff of changing tyres over twice a year and not having enough space to store them.

As for that little bit of extra fuel or wear on the tyres, well, I really couldn’t GAS. More than offset by not needing to faff about. Given the low mileage each year it also isn’t a problem.

Main thing for me is that the vehicle is road legal and it works.

Almost as if they’ve been eavesdropping, black circles has a 15% off all their allseasons. But they’re not necessarily the cheapest, ATS Euromaster has a good discount on the vectors which looks to be the best price around and runs til the end of the month.

I refer you to ‘driven appropriately’…

That said. I do appreciate that plenty of weapons grade progress makers are out there behind a steering wheel.

Or simply inexperienced drivers who were never taught about the nuances of lift-off oversteer when engine braking around a wet bend. That was me, I learned quickly enough but it was luck rather than judgement that saved me. I’d done the same road at the same speed umpteen times but that day the conditions were bad enough for the back to let go.

It’s not all about bellends.

@northwind & @edukator that’s fair.

It’s not all their all seasons neither vector 4s nor quatracs are included which is shit cause they are the only 2 decent ones that are made for my car they don’t do cc or cc2to fit

I’ve pretty much always found kwikfit to be the cheapest all season tyre place here in hove!

DrP

trail_rat
Free Member

It’s not all their all seasons neither vector 4s nor quatracs are included which is shit cause they are the only 2 decent ones that are made for my car they don’t do cc or cc2to fit

Works on Vector 4 gen 3 for me? Maybe a size thing? ATS worked out a good bit cheaper though in the same size.

I paid £500 all in for set of 4 vector 4’s earlier in the year from ATS for my outback.

the original Goodyear OEM tyres on the rear failed the MOT earlier this year, after nearly five years, so the CC2’s went on the back, and I’ve got Continental all-seasons on the front
Why? You want the better tyres on the back, understeer > oversteer.

Source: Honda Civic with a waggly arse with lift off oversteer.

Yeah, useful source of information, that. Like, I’m gonna pay any attention to that as a reference point.

FWIW,  the Michelin’s I’ve got on the back now are at most 2, 2.5 years old, with approximately 4, 4.5mm of tread, and the Contis a few months old.
Anyone seriously imagining that tyre performance is going to be the slightest bit compromised? Honestly?

Anyone seriously imagining that tyre performance is going to be the slightest bit compromised? Honestly?

Nobody’s imagining anything. You’ve put the worst of your tires on the back. Your rear tires are 2.5 years old and 1/3rd worn. They have degraded from their new as tested performance. honestly.

I don’t really care about your tires  But your language of trying to justify your position by suggesting the intimating of your tires degrading over time is shocking news is funny.

black circles has a 15% off all their allseasons.

I’m having two Hankook Kinergy tyres fitted at 8.30 this morning by a local place. They beat Blackcircles by £20 a tyre.

This reminded me that I needed to check my winter tyres now that (as October 1st is “can have”) autumn is here and snow may be coming at some point soon. I need to switch out two of the four my van has for new studded tyres, so those are going to be fitted today. Apparently there are new rules for non-studded winter tyres now, but as I have studded, it’s not a huge issue.

December 1st is when people here “must” have winter tyres on and, honestly, if you drive here without winter tyres on, you deserve to be arrested.

Looking at some for my wifes BMW 2 series – thought I’s settled onn the Goodyear Vectors 4Seasons

However, shes asked me if these re run-flats as she doesn’t have a spare…erm nope, they’re not

What are thoughts on this (run-flats) for cars that dont have a spare?

Proper winter tyres maybe better on wide wheels with very low profile tyres, a few years back we had all seasons on the Legacy (225 width)  and they were very disappointing in wet slushy conditions.  But as stated tyres have improved quite a lot now, but worth consideration.   The other vehicle at the time was on winters and the difference was very noticable.

That car has  gone now so hence my All Season tactics for this winter and the wheel is narrower as well.

What are thoughts on this (run-flats) for cars that dont have a spare?

How often do you have a puncture?

What are thoughts on this (run-flats) for cars that dont have a spare?

Get a spare?

Proper winter tyres maybe better on wide wheels with very low profile tyres

They’re better on all wheel sizes and tyre profiles.

What are thoughts on this (run-flats) for cars that dont have a spare?

Ideally, buy a space saver spare and keep it in the boot – 2-series is a decent size so should be enough bootspace. We carry a space saver in Mrs a11y’s 4-series coupe thing after swapping to non runflats.

My MINI just doesn’t have the bootspace to carry a space saver AND anything else – it’d be a choice of one or the other, but not both at same time. I’m winging it as car rarely goes on longer journeys and I’ve got breakdown cover. Plus, in 28 years of driving I’ve had 3 punctures, only one of which was an instant flat requiring the spare wheel. Hopefully not jinxed that now by typing this…

It’s normal for cars not to have spares these days, but I think you need a ‘tire mobility kit’ which is a pump and some sealant. These do apparently work, so you could get one.

Runflats aren’t really a solution, you can’t drive around normally on them AFAIK – they just let you get somewhere safe.

molgripsFree Member
It’s normal for cars not to have spares these days, but I think you need a ‘tire mobility kit’ which is a pump and some sealant. These do apparently work, so you could get one.

Runflats aren’t really a solution, you can’t drive around normally on them AFAIK – they just let you get somewhere safe.

I was wishing for run-flats when I hit a pothole leaving me stranded on a blind bend on a country line. The goo did nothing other than spray straight out of the cut!   Luckily the compressor I had was decent so I could pump the tire up really high, move it a few car lengths until it was flat again, … repeat … until it was somewhere safer.

You can get the Goodyear Vectors in runflat, depending on size e.g.

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/tyre/Goodyear/Vector-4-Seasons-Gen-2-ROF/205-55-R16-91V–runflat/R-281926

Edit: My car doesn’t have a spare, just the compressor/pump and jizz. When I got a slash in the side of the tyre I didn’t even bother with the sealant. Fortunately was a nice sunny day and only a 15 minute drive from home so just got recovered.

I would have thought these days that anyone who lives south of Glasgow would be better investing in rain tyres rather than tyres rated <7 degrees…. unless we have a sudden reversal of global warming.

I was wishing for run-flats when I hit a pothole leaving me stranded on a blind bend on a country line.

I hit a sizeable chunk of rock someone had inconsiderately dislodged from the banking on a similar bit of road. The big split in the sidewall made driving on the runflats a non-starter.

Run flats are better than they were, and there’s now some availability in all seasons but they’re still pretty compromised on ride quality and noise IMO, and usually quite a bit pricier. I run the ordinary Vector 4S and carry sealant.