So how close were we to guns pulled yesterday?

However democratic process through parliament gave the police the authority to choose the route of the protest, so breaching that law is anti-democratic

no, breaching the law is breaching the law. Law and democracy are different things. One is a system of mutually and historically established rules of acceptable behaviour enforceable by a system of punishment. The other is a system of government where the people sometimes get to vote on which bunch of (partly) corrupt self serving incompetent hypocrites they would like to be manipulated by next….?

Think the bottom line is ‘you can protest all you like so long as it’s ineffectual’

basically that seems to be the case.

For what it’s worth, yes I have been on demonstrations. The most memorable one involved being protected by the police from the attentions of gangs of violent, racist thugs of the National Front whilst peacefully making our way to Victoria Park to listen to the big noises in pop music of the day. We marched and bore witness by our presence. It seemed enough to display opposition to the forces of “working class” Fascism at the time as it certainly seemed to excercise their rage…

What we didn’t do was go from unagreed place to unagreed place, smashing up other people’s property and assaulting the elderly or the police because we’ve been asked to stump up to help resolve the appalling state of the nation’s finances, left us by the bunch of incompetent nitwits who ballsed things up before the last election.

Where d’you stand on the Battle of Cable Street, Woppit? An event where police escorting a group of Fascists exercising their democratic right to march, came under attack from violent anti-fascists. People who deliberately and wilfully broke the Law, in order to stop a march by people whose views they din’t agree with….

You’re a strange one Woppit 😉 you so nearly had it there, then you missed the point completely. But nice one for going to the concert anyway 🙂 respect.

Elfinsafety – Member

Where d’you stand on the Battle of Cable Street, Woppit? An event where police escorting a group of Fascists exercising their democratic right to march, came under attack from violent anti-fascists

According to you, I’m not qualified to comment as I “wasn’t there”.

Pfft.

actually that’s not what was said at all and given that you are clearly a veteran of demonstrations you are in a great postion to comment 😀

Barnsley girl’s account of violence at fees protest

To see the police as some sort of otherwise benign force that only acts through absolutely necessity is incredibly naive and blinkered. They are there as an intimidating and oppressive force. They want to discourage future demonstrations, and to make people fear them. Not going to work. All they’ve done is wound people up even more.

just because you are paranoid it doesn’t mean they are not out to get you?

the scale of the disorder just represents those who commit violence to property or person belief that they won’t get caught, and if they do get caught that they will not be prosecuted.

you get reactionaries when left wing intellectuals feel they have been mugged, in this case their belief is that government has mugged the cosy premse that everyone should aspire to a free 3 year media studies hummanities degree and working in a call centre socially useful occupation. They then feel justified in their little bubble in commiting violent acts because they aren’t being “listened too”, instead of the reality to paraphrase David Starkey,

many people don’t really care

and that the anti’s are in a minority.

The reality is that people who turn up to do a shift in the morning are ending up in hospital rather than going home safely. I don’t believe that everyone of them agrees with the government policy nor is spoillng for a fight. So is what is happening acceptable?

I can foresee CS spray and tazers being more widely used to defend officers from those who think is acceptable to commit violence when they can’t do whatever they want.

everyone should aspire to a free 3 year media studies hummanities degree and working in a call centre socially useful occupation

You, sir, are an idiot.

You, sir, are an idiot.

why, one of the main cruxes of the anti argument is the proposed “bonfire of the humanities” due to the reduction in funding to be offset by financing (to be repaid by the student later) which comes with the student, the linkage between studying and cost and therefore your future earning ability is seen as a retrograde step as student may look at what they actually get for the money and their employability (for which the proposed structure acts against as as long as you earn less than £21K you don’t pay anything). My tongue firmly in cheek post above was merely to highlight that. To add a bit of more information; working in the right call centre on the phones can be very lucrative which some top earners at £40-60k with graduates regularly taken on at a enhanced entry level.

You, sir, are an idiot.

would be a fairer summary of your views on what bike we should all be riding 😉

I can foresee CS spray and tazers being more widely used by police officers who think it’s acceptable to commit violence whenever they want.

FTFY… 😉

Don’t mean to be rude, but I can’t be bothered responding to someone who shows little knowledge of what Humanities degrees are actually about…

This incident is one of the few examples of royal involvement in public life that I have enjoyed reading about.

Don’t mean to be rude, but I can’t be bothered responding to someone who shows little knowledge of what Humanities degrees are actually about…

<10 hours a week lecture time, 1 hour a week tutor time and a number of set pieces of work? 😉

I can foresee CS spray and tazers being more widely used by police officers who think it’s acceptable to commit violence whenever they want.

I would have thought you would condone theuse of non-lethal force that meant hitting people over the head with batons wasn’t necessary

more lazy soddin students in leeds today
these lazy geyts will protest about anything
companies evading tax
people killing badgers
overthrow the government
ban mcdonalds

get a soddin life you good for nothing lazy layabouts.

police horses forcing them back were impressive tho………awesome!

Ton; don’t get yerself so worked up mate. It’s not good for you…. 🙁

Not sure I understand your hatred of them Ton WHY?.Part of it is younger people are more likely to be radical protest and I have no problem with them doing this or getting a bit close and personal with HRH
Governments would be far more responsive if we rioted and engaged in mass civil disobediance when they ignored our wishes …everything they do requires our acceptance and compliance.
Of course they like to lecture us when people dont do a peacful protest as a peacful compliant[middle class????] show of annoyance, hand ringing and tutting is much easier to ignore.

Odd Ton you supported the miners but hate students for doing the same and protesting/fighting for their way of life

johnnie…………hatred…me
you know me better than that mate.

more lazy soddin ……these lazy geyts……..good for nothing lazy

And they are “lazy” because they are protesting ?

If they stayed at home and didn’t bother protesting they wouldn’t be “lazy” ?

There’s some interesting logic there ton. Or is it as I suspect, that no logical thinking was involved at all ?

And for that matter, probably no thinking of any description.

teej and darcy will be along soon i expect 😆

Well before they do, any chance of you explaining why protesting students are “lazy” ?

Or don’t you know ?

cos all they want to do is toss it off for a couple or 4 years before they decide to contribute to the country.

😀

was going to say antipathy but did not want to confuse you with a word I learnt as a student 8)

God this is painful to watch. 🙁

hate students for doing the same and protesting/fighting for their way of life

what “way of life” are students fighting for?

daft comment and certainly in no way comparable to decimation of communities that the closure of mines caused. Many towns across the UK have never recovered.

graduates having to pay more money back albeit at a lower monthly rate than they currently do and after they are earning above 21K does not seem to be a reason for violent protest.

But hey what do I know as I paid for my university education myself, lived on pittance, had two part time jobs whilst at uni and started paying my loan back as soon as I was earning because I believe that my further education was MY choice and I had to repay that opportunity as a responsible and accountable adult.

cos all they want to do is toss it off for a couple or 4 years before they decide to contribute to the country.

So your comments concerning “laziness” aren’t aimed at protesting students at all then. They are aimed at all students. You should have made that clear mate.

But you sound a little bitter to me ton…….why is that ? Couldn’t you get to university ? Weren’t you “lazy” enough at school ?

ernie……….i was neither brainy enough or that way inclined mate.
i was out working as soon as i left school to provide wages for my family to live on.

i was neither brainy enough or that way inclined mate.

But you clearly have a problem with people who are, I just wondered why that was ?

You see, like you, I wasn’t “brainy enough or that way inclined”, but I don’t have a problem with students, nor do I consider them to be lazy. So I was interested in why you do.

Elfinsafety – Member
God this is painful to watch.

then enlighten the heatherns

what Humanities degrees are actually about…

is….

The pity is that [legitimate, peaceful] protest has been overshadowed by the violence of a minority, compounded by dubious Police tactics.

The behaviour of the Tab idiot was grimly amusing, though – it was like all The Daily Fail‘s Christmases came at once.

ernie……….it seems to me that a large amount of the students that decide to go to university drop out after a couple of years.
i see these as lazy people who do not want to face up to the realities of life.
you have to pay into the society, this is fair…no?
these freeloaders do not seem to want to do this.

imho that is…..i may be wrong.

graduates having to pay more money back albeit at a lower monthly rate than they currently do and after they are earning above 21K does not seem to be a reason for violent protest.

but we will stay pay £10k per annum to FE for vocational qualifications for people who work in specfic industries who then go on to earn more money as a result and often more than 21k – lets call these apprentices or free training for business/industry.
All education leads to an increase in earnings. From Level 1 all the way up. You may as well charge people for teaching them to read after all this massively increases their earning potential.

i see these as lazy people who do not want to face up to the realities of life…….i may be wrong

Mmmm……….I think there’s a possibility that you might be.

Ton,

remember that the miners wanted the taxpayer to continue funding their jobs and lifestyle even though it was commercially unviable – essentially they wanted to be freeloaders for life, not for 3 or 4 years.

ernie……i agree
beans…….. 😆

but we will stay pay £10k per annum to HE for vocational qualifications

most aren’t vocational, a degree in electronic and electrical engineering doesn’t qualify you to wire a plug

the additional payment is to cover increased teaching costs so that all students will pay the same level of tuition fees or thereabouts

that sounds very equitable

the miners wanted the taxpayer to continue funding their jobs and lifestyle even though it was commercially unviable

British deep mined coal was, apart from South Africa, the cheapest in the world. The problem actually was, that other countries were subsidising their coal industries, and the then British government, despite the job losses, destruction of whole communities, etc, was more interested in Dole, rather than Coal.

it seems to me that a large amount of the students that decide to go to university drop out after a couple of years.

How do you know this, if you’ve never bin to uniservity? 😕

This is now like watching a bullfight that’s gone on too long. It’s continuation merely prolongs the agony…

then enlighten the heatherns

(Sic)

You’re on an internet forum. Have a think about it…

British government, despite the job losses, destruction of whole communities, etc, was more interested in Dole, rather than Coal.

but think of the carbon saving……..

I think the real issue was that the Unions didn’t see the writing on the wall and the leadership chose to have a idealogical fight with the elected government of the day. If they had spent their time getting concessions in the form of re-employment strategies they may have saved their communities from a lot of the pain they went through.