So… public sector workers…

Oooh, I’ll get the 1% as I’m at the top of my pay band! 🙂
Ahhhh, most of it’ll go with the new pension contributions. 🙁

Thanks to those for clarifying the previous norms in university pay behaviour (and I’m painfully aware of her being stop at the top of her payscale).

There’s a enat trick that all politicians play: they take a specific example (“Mrs Miggins had her wheelie bin stolen last week”) and turn it into a general rule (“our elderly are left open to attack by feral youths”). The same is true of anyone using themselves (or their other half) as an example of how life is generally or how it ought to be.

Southmouthers are significantly better paid than us in the teaching profession. One of Goves early statements was about a national pay agreement, funny where that one went.

Whats a southmouther?

It is a Island term for anybody who comes from South of Shetland

I’m going to use mine to put into my pension fund, well I have no choice as that’s where it’s going.

Why the focus on Teachers again? Fwiw there are some public sector employees you gladly pay money too – I wouldn’t bat an eyelid I I found out a teacher / fireman/ surgeon was being paid more than me.

I do however see many examples of Wiggles post. I’ve even seen public sector management put a Wiggles type employee to task and bugger off home because “he done his 37 hours this week”. I’m not saying that’s true for everyone on public sector.

I do however see many examples of Wiggles insert generic name here post. I’ve even seen public private sector management put a Wiggles type employee to task and bugger off home because “he done his 37 hours this week”. I’m not saying that’s true for everyone on public private sector.

“Average public sector pay £ 16 approx per hour, private sector pay £14 approx per hour. I strongly the average work conditions favor the public sector worker.”

Did you ever stop to think that there may be a disproportionate amount of minimum wage jobs in the private sector, eg hospitality that brings that average down.

If some of the scientists in my department went back into private industry as opposed to working for a government department..eg DEFRA, they’d dwarf their current earnings.

The trouble is that you need to also factor in the value of employer pension guarantees / payments and differences in hours / patterns of early retirement – do that and the gap between median public / private sector total remuneration is as high as 30-40% and partially explains why so many cities outside of London are shrinking as the private sector can’t attract or retain staff when public sector organisations are effectively overpaying for many skill sets.

http://www.rosaltmann.com/public_sector_pensions.htm

Trouble is that on median earnings public sector workers earn £3K more than their private sector peers who apparently all get massive bonuses. Factor in the value of employer pension guarantees / payments and differences in hours / patterns of early retirement and the gap between median public / private sector total remuneration is 30-40% and partially explains why so many cities outside of London are shrinking as the private sector can’t attract or retain staff when public sector organisations are effectively overpaying for many skill sets.

so what you’re saying is that apples and pears are different. Wow amazing. Thats why I was talking about teachers as we can compare apples to apples.

Well I just think its terrible that somebody somewhere might be getting paid more or doing less or having more holidays than me.

It should all be standardised to whatever I’m on or it’s just not fair.

If it was always so great and easy in the public sector, surprising more of the haters didn’t jump to work here.

That is a bit missleading by omission. There are lots of ways to earn more than £37k as a teacher and still have the majority of your role be teaching kids.

I didn’t say otherwise.[/quote]
You tried to make a point that teachers pay was capped at a low level. You missed the plentiful opertunities to rise above the “cap”. So yes you didn’t say otherwise, hence your statement was missleading becuase you missed out very relevant information.

The 37k threshold will also increase once you are able to collectively negaotiate a new deal with the government.

Yep, that’s the current pay for the P3 point. Hence me saying I’d be stuck at that point, not that money.[/quote]
As would someone in the private sector. You are basically saying that unless you take on extra responsibilities then you will get paid the same. Seems fair to me. In fact the pay excalators that you automatically get for working for a certain amount of time are a very public sector phenominom and people in the private sector don’t get the same cushy scheme.

Combine that with the fact that £37k is a comparably large amount to earn today as a graduate who hasn’t taken on any additional responsibilities and you can see why people have a preconception of “greedy” public sector workers.

You think so? I’m pretty sure I earn a lot less than many people I was at uni with.[/quote]

They may earn more than you but they will have had to take on additional responsibilities to get there. Most graduates earning more than £37k will be in management positions unless they have very specific and highly sought after skills. To get £37k in most sectors you have to be doing at least the equivalent of head of subject/head of year type roles.

But your hyperthetical teacher on £37k will just have worked in the same role for 12 years. (Ignoring inflation)-> So they have entered on £21k and 12 years later, doing the same job they are on £37k. Only in the public sector hey!

If someone entered the private sector on £21k and did the same job for 12 years they would be on £21k.

jfletch – Member

If someone entered the private sector on £21k and did the same job for 12 years they would be on £21k.

Absolute pish- I did the same job on the grade and got a 50% increase over several years, we (a bank) used pretty much the exact same pay logic as my current place (a university), grades within grades to reflect the capability of the person doing the work.

You tried to make a point that teachers pay was capped at a low level.

No, I was explaining how the pay scale works. That’s all.

They may earn more than you but they will have had to take on additional responsibilities to get there.

Some people I was at uni with had starting salaries (in 1999) that were higher than my current salary.

So they have entered on £21k and 12 years later, doing the same job they are on £37k. Only in the public sector hey!

When I was on £21k, I received a lot of help, support, guidance and mentoring from more experienced colleagues. Now that I’m on £37k, I’m fulfilling a similar role for newer members of staff.

If you think of the progression up the payscale as on-the-job training it makes more sense.

I’d love to keep discussing this, but I have been at work for 8 hours, and have another 4 to do today. Also, I don’t really care what you think, and life’s too short.

Anyone see Junior Paramedics tonight on BBC3? Did any of those thinking we deserve 1% see the Paramedic looking after the sick kid. So still think we are only worth 1%?

Paramedics/Nurses etc are worth a lot more than a paltry 1% Drac.
But at least most of the public know & appreciate what a difficult & valuable job you all do, even if the politicians don’t.

I think you’re right essel.

If you can half a team and till function, then that must of been a pretty over staffed dept.

Spoken from a position of complete ignorance. Sorry dude, you are wrong.

Others have answered this but I thought I’d throw in my experience. A large consultancy took over the section where I used to work. Won’t name them but a clue is Crapgemini. Their strategy was so slash and cut, reducing departments until employee good will was so stretched that things started to fail. Then would then ease off until the team could function again, just. No over staffing in the first place, just a team doing a job well for it’s customer base.

oooh, missed this one earlier – just got out of my bath of swan’s blood and champagne.

Anyone care to summarise ?

(Edit: wonundred !! See, some of us are just lucky)

Anyone care to summarise ?

Private Sector: We’re worth more than 1%

Public Sector: We’ve not had a pay rise for 2 years, not including bonuses, and we work harder.

Repeat.

Because it’s a well-known fact that everyone in the private sector gets bonuses 🙄

You had a good argument – don’t ruin it.

If you can half a team and till function, then that must of been a pretty over staffed dept.

Your’e so obviously a manager in a public service. Obvious in more ways than one.

Edit, What’s a ‘bonus’?

Because it’s a well-known fact that everyone in the private sector gets bonuses

I was showing the thread highlights Scotroutes my opinion may differ.

Drac – Moderator

Anyone care to summarise ?

Private Sector: You are !
Public Sector: No, you are !
Repeat. [/quote]OK, that’s fine then. Nothing to add.

If someone entered the private sector on £21k and did the same job for 12 years they would be on £21k.

Er, every law firm. Ever.

(Which is why so many – including some moderately big ones – have hit the wall so badly.)

Yeah or that Scardeypants.

. I get the same salary as the people on the bottom of their pay scale of the public sector benefits, no sick pay, pension (my employer pays £1.50,in a week) less holiday etc all for doing the exact same job!

This happens because you are prepared to do the exact same job for less pay. I presume you are hoping that every one else’s pay will be slashed to be in line with yours?

I expect your higher earning colleagues would very much like you to stop doing their job for a pittance and bringing down their wages and conditions.

What’s a bonus?

It’s what people in the private sector get when they are very good at their job and their employees don’t want them to leave.

You don’t get one? Oh well, it might be because you aren’t that great at what you do …….

The shitty raises just seem to be a continued drive towards privatisation, as everything works much better when its ran by the private sector just look at the trains and utility companies …….. Mind you can’t blame the Tories for their slash and burn tactics, and this is what they do and they were voted in.

they were voted in

Not quite. Which explains why they had to tempt the Liberal Democrats with the lure of ministerial cars to sell out their principles and help them form a government.

You don’t get one? Oh well, it might be because you aren’t that great at what you do ….

My bonus is I make people well again and they live when I do my job well. I don’t need a cash incentive to make me do better.