Cor, not see Question Time for a while but the SNP person doesn’t seem keen to take responsibility for much. I’m sure a lot of what she says is true but the constant blaming of everyone else for everything negative is starting to grate!

When you have a fixed and reducing budget with very little room for maneuver and have spent all the contingency money you can raise on ameliorating the worst of the tory benefit cuts then its really very difficult. Want to put more money into the NHS – then cut elsewhere. Want to put more money into education – cut where?

Scots NHS for example cost 10% less in admin than in England. ie less than 10% of its budget compared to more than 20% in england

When your powers to raise money are limited then there are outside constrains upon what you can do

However after more than 10 years in power like most governments they become tired and stale. I really hope labour in scotland can get their act together and push the SNP hard down a better social justice agenda – but they cannot do this by merely shouting SNP baaaaaaaaaaaaad at everything. a better approach would be ” this SNP policy is good as far as it goes but needs to go further”

I don’t watch questiontime any more as its just shouty nonsense. However consider if you could put “Politicians” in the title and OP and still be just as valid?

It looks like it was Joanna Cherry QC (a Westminster SNP MP) who was on? I don’t know what you were expecting her to take responsibility for – but its a bit like expecting Ruth Davidson or Ian Murray to agree with and support everything their Westminster colleagues do.

When your powers to raise money are limited

they do have the ability to charge more tax (they already do) and can allow council to increase council tax…

I believe the op is partly talking about the drug problem in Dundee.

SNP were reluctant to take responsibility. As was a Tory on there.

SNP have been asking for devolvement of drug policy for a number of years, the current “drugs are bad….n’kay?” policy of illegality has been an absolute failure for the previous 50 years and needs totally overhauled.

if the question was about drug policy then that is certainly not the SNP issue

The SNP are irritating, defo. Not as irritating as Boris and the tories though.

One word: education.

Under Scottish control since forever and an abject disaster under the SNP. Something they continue to deny although hopefully the coming review will force some fact facing.

Define abject disaster?

fixed and reducing budget

Eh? They have tax rate raising powers. As long as you think revenue always rise in proportion to tax rates (which many STWers do!) they can simply raise tax rates and increase their revenue dramatically.

Eh? They have tax rate raising powers. As long as you think revenue always rise in proportion to tax rates (which many STWers do!) they can simply raise tax rates and increase their revenue dramatically.

Ah but it’s a poisoned chalice. The SNP are dammed if they do, dammed if they don’t. Scotland already gets “slammed” as the highest taxed part of the UK. The yoons would be frothing if the SNP raised taxes further.

Also OOB the “tax raising” powers are very limited and designed intentionally to stop the SNP doing things they want to do.

We have had a small shift from lower paid workers paying less and higher paid paying more. What the SNP do not have the power to do is restructure the tax system properly only to tinker around the edges

On public sevices there is alternative analysis. Note the source of course but iit shows that scotlands public services have not been a disaster under the SNP

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18231000.sturgeon-really-tone-deaf-priorities-scotland/

The SNP are dammed if they do, dammed if they don’t.

Aye, I was listening to a fitter at work last week about how he pays more tax than his southern counterparts. He went rather quiet when asked how much he pays in tuition fees for his son to study at one of the most prestigious universities in the UK, compared to said southern colleagues, you could actually almost hear the wheels turning.

fixed and reducing budget

Eh? They have tax rate raising powers. As long as you think revenue always rise in proportion to tax rates (which many STWers do!) they can simply raise tax rates and increase their revenue dramatically.

The SNP are dammed if they do, dammed if they don’t. Scotland already gets “slammed” as the highest taxed part of the UK. The yoons would be frothing if the SNP raised taxes further.

Ahhh, fixed the the Scottish electorate, fair enough, I thought TJ meant fixed by Westminster.

I do. the block grant is fixed and reducing, the tax raising powers are limited and limiting. the scottish government has no borrowing powers. Using the tax raising powers to the maximum would not add a lot to the budget and the tax raising powers are designed to stop any significant redesign or rebalancing of the tax base

You only pay more tax in Scotland if you are above average UK earnings. If you are below average UK earnings you pay less tax

As I keep telling Yooner colleagues, the bets way to get rid of the SNP is independence.

The taxraising powers in Scotland are only limited if they don’t impact you. My role is moving accross the border and I need a several thousand rise in gross pay to get the same take home as in England. That’s not insignificant. Even if they could go further, if they pushed it it would get to the point where it would be a significant disincentive for companies to locate there or for people to relocate there.

It would be mad if you get an extra £300 in take home a month just by moving your role from Ediburgh to Newcastle.

You must be earning a huge amount for it to make that much difference! Its 5% extra over £150 000 pa and a small amount extra ( due to lower thresholds) in the 40% rate

https://inews.co.uk/news/scotland/scotland-income-tax-rates-different-from-england-306807

Also OOB the “tax raising” powers are very limited and designed intentionally to stop the SNP doing things they want to do.

And yet there are things like council tax reform that they shy away from. Essentially though they, like all politicians, are too scared to “put tax up” they just don’t put them down when Westminster does – thats not leadership.

One word: education.

Under Scottish control since forever and an abject disaster under the SNP. Something they continue to deny although hopefully the coming review will force some fact facing

Ah, ok – I must have missed the disaster. Certainly what I see in terms of a rounded education by people who understand what they learn and why is very different from 30 yrs ago. Is it a disaster, or are the outraged opposed to change? Of course it could be better but there isn’t universal agreement on what we cut or tax to improve it…

Aye, I was listening to a fitter at work last week about how he pays more tax than his southern counterparts. He went rather quiet when asked how much he pays in tuition fees for his son to study at one of the most prestigious universities in the UK, compared to said southern colleagues, you could actually almost hear the wheels turning.

Interestingly I work with a lot of people who pay enough extra tax that they would genuinely notice the difference if we moved to the english levels. I’ve never heard a single one complain.

As I keep telling Yooner colleagues, the bets way to get rid of the SNP is independence.

Indeed if you want conservative type policies in Scotland the best thing you can do is vote independence, watch the SNP implode, the labour party be confused and lost, and the need for fiscal control grow and Ruth can make a come back!

the tax raising powers are limited and limiting

You can’t complain about that unless they are all up at the maximum allowed.

Clearly Westminster isn’t limiting Scotlands revenue, financial reality and Scottish Voters are.

It would be mad if you get an extra £300 in take home a month just by moving your role from Ediburgh to Newcastle.

Crap comparison, why not compare 2 cities with equivalent costs of living.

Even with the SRIT I would be significantly worse off if I relocated to a southern site.

Point missed OOB

The limitations are deliberatly intended to make it a poisoned chalice and cannot be used in the way I and many others would like. Not allowed to alter the personal allowance for example.

Crap comparison, why not compare 2 cities with equivalent costs of living

Why’s it a crap comparison? It’s got nothing to do with the cost of living.

£70k a year in Newcastle gets you £49k after tax
£70k a year in Ediburgh gets you £47k

So already you get £160 a month less if you were in Ediburgh. I’m suggesting if that opens up further it will start to become a bigger consideration for companies /individuals.

It would be mad if you get an extra £300 in take home a month just by moving your role from Ediburgh to Newcastle.

You’d need to be earning £180,000 a year before you get a £300 per month difference in your take home pay

In Edinburgh you can send your kids to Uni for free, in newcastle it will cost them £30 000. In Edinburgh yuu can get free prescriptions, In Newcastle they will cost you etc etc. In edinburgh you will wait less time in A&E

Tomd – a tiny % of the population earn that much.

Holy Christ. I know that – I’m saying

IF

it opens up further it will become a bigger factor for companies and individuals. It’s a constraint the SNP have to work with given how easily people and capital can move around within the UK. Even if the SNP had more tax raiding power they will always be constrained by this fact.

Tomd – a tiny % of the population earn that much.

Indeed, so taxing them more raises little revenue. (Even if the don’t simply move away from Scotland which they may well do.)

 more tax raiding power

😂

Which is why the scottish government raised taxes a very small amount on everyone earning more than £33000 pa and only a bit more above £150 000 so they could raise a worthwhile amount without upsetting too many folk.

Most of us are more than happy to pay a bit extra for our better public services. I am.

I’m not convinced that a political party refusing to take responsibility and blaming everyone else is really just an SNP problem.

Tomd – a tiny % of the population earn that much.

Presumably the SNP want to attract the well paid jobs to Scotland, and taxing the shit out of them won’t help that. In my own situation the company is taking up the slack when my role goes accross the border so it’s just an extra cost on the business.

You must be earning a huge amount for it to make that much difference! Its 5% extra over £150 000 pa and a small amount extra ( due to lower thresholds) in the 40% rate

Don’t forget NI. It,s 12% until £50’000. So between £43’431 and £50k Scots pay 53% tax and NI. Add pension contributions and take home pay is around a third of earnings from £43-£50k.

As far as tax alone goes – a Scots taxpayer on £50k will pay approx £1300 a year more tax on the income between £43’431 and £50k. You may think that a small amount, I don’t.

^, don’t see a problem, £50k /year is a helluva decent wage

Those numbers do not match anything published anywhere else. NI is the same and cannot be varied in Scotland. To pay £1500 a year more tax you actually need to be paid £100 000+

On £50 000 pa you pay £800 a year more tax in total

Read the numbers in the link I put in above

taxing the shit out of them

Scotland’s top income tax rate = 46%
England’s top income tax rate = 45%

Both for amounts over £150k

Let’s compare that to other European countries

Austria – 50% for amounts over €90k
Finland – 65% for amounts over €127k
France – 41% for amounts over €71k
Italy – 43% for amounts over €75k
Netherlands – 51.75% for amounts over €68.5k

I’m assuming those countries have no high earners???

Which is why the scottish government raised taxes a very small amount on everyone earning more than £33000 pa and only a bit more above £150 000 so they could raise a worthwhile amount without upsetting too many folk.

Most of us are more than happy to pay a bit extra for our better public services. I am.

You were complaining there wasn’t enough money to spend!