Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 201 total)
  • SNP don’t like taking responsibility do they?
  • lotto
    Member

    Then I’d suggest that perhaps your prejudices are coming into play. I’m not a fan boy by any stretch but I’ve rarely seen her caught out, unprepared or on the back foot.

    You should watch the November 2019 Andrew Neil interview. Good examples of her being caught out, unprepared and on the back foot.

    Yeah, fair comment. And I do find her just… annoying! 😉

    Aye, best to base your vote on who doesn’t annoy you.

    They agreed to referendum conditions

    Where was this condition detailed and signed for? I’ll tell you, it wasn’t, it’s a similar ‘condition’ to ‘stay in the union or your out of Europe’….

    Spin
    Member

    You should watch the November 2019 Andrew Neil interview. Good examples of her being caught out, unprepared and on the back foot.

    That’s why I used the word ‘rarely’ rather than never.

    Premier Icon piemonster
    Subscriber

    Aye, best to base your vote on who doesn’t annoy you.

    Doesn’t matter whether you should or not, people do and in significant numbers.

    lotto
    Member

    Where was this condition detailed and signed for? I’ll tell you, it wasn’t, it’s a similar ‘condition’ to ‘stay in the union or your out of Europe’….

    Or I could tell you that on 15 October, 2012, the Edinburgh Agreement was signed by Mr Salmond and Prime Minister David Cameron. The Agreement ensured that the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood was able to deliver a referendum that met the highest standards of fairness, transparency and propriety. Here was the lost opportunity not to be bound by ‘Once in a lifetime’ statement.

    Edinburgh Agreement.

    Premier Icon piemonster
    Subscriber

    I honest haven’t seen anything I. An remember from Scottish Labour recently (in a Holyrood context)

    Any danger of making the necessary moves towards being a credible opposition in Holyrood?

    Premier Icon somafunk
    Subscriber

    Who could forget the ‘Once in a lifetime’ 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum

    Haud yer wheest, ya heid the baw, that quote is taken out of further context that very clearly states that it is a once in a generational chance unless there is further significant changes to the status quo.

    Id consider an entire nation state being removed from the eu despite a clear majority showing a preference to stay quite a significant further change to the status quo.

    Awa and parrot your trite & meaningless sound bites elsewhere

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    lotto
    They agreed to referendum conditions, but they would rather bleat, moan and blame Westminster for their current situation.

    I’ve had a genius idea. Why don’t we make it impossible for them to blame Westminster?

    Make Scotland independent.

    lotto
    Member

    Awa and parrot your trite & meaningless sound bites elsewhere

    This just comes across as bitterness at not getting the referendum result your way. As expected from someone with the maturity to level insults from behind a keyboard;

    Haud yer wheest, ya heid the baw

    Paraphrasing Scottish dialect serves what purpose in your opinion?

    lotto
    Member

    Make Scotland independent

    That chance has gone with the referendum result?

    In a world where this fact is forgotten, then an independent Scotland wishes to join the EU. (No mention of a referendum here to make sure that’s what the population want) appears to me like frying pan to the fire, but the SNP do like somebody else to blame, so this situation would appeal to their party of protest attitude.

    BruceWee
    Member

    That chance has gone with the referendum result?

    Democracy is, of course, a one off event. That’s why I don’t understand why people keep bleating on about the SNP. We had the vote and the SNP won so that means they are our government now and forever. Isn’t it time to get over it and move on.

    That’s how democracy works, isn’t it?

    Premier Icon somafunk
    Subscriber

    Paraphrasing Scottish dialect serves what purpose in your opinion?

    I admit it was entirely intentional and deliberate on my part, I was interested in your response and I see you chose to highlight my use of dialect rather than reply to my accusation of selective reporting taken out of context.

    Tells me what I wanted to know, 👍

    Premier Icon gordimhor
    Subscriber

    Lottó from your link.


    <h2 id=”mod353347″>Memorandum of Agreement</h2>
    <div>
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    <h6>Purpose of the memorandum</h6>
    1. This memorandum sets out the elements of the agreement that require legislative provision in the section 30 Order <sup>1</sup> (“the Order”), the draft text of which is annexed to this memorandum, and the elements that have been agreed between the governments on a non-statutory basis.
    <h6>Principles</h6>
    2. Both governments agree that the principles underpinning the existing framework for referendums held under Acts of the UK Parliament – which aim to guarantee fairness – should apply to the Scottish independence referendum.  Part 7 of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 (PPERA) <sup>2</sup>, provides a framework for referendums delivered through Acts of Parliament, including rules about campaign finance, referendum regulation, oversight and conduct.

    3. Both governments agree that the referendum rules should be based on PPERA, with particular Scottish circumstances, such as the establishment of the Electoral Management Board and subsequent role of the Electoral Commission, reflected in the Referendum Bill.
    <h6>Timing</h6>
    4. The Order enables the Scottish Parliament to legislate for a referendum that takes place at any point before the end of 2014.  The date of the poll will be for the Scottish Parliament to determine and will be set out in the Referendum Bill to be introduced by the Scottish Government. The Order requires the poll for this referendum to be held on a day with no other poll provided for by legislation of the Scottish Parliament.
    <h6>Question</h6>
    5. Both governments agree that the referendum question must be fair, easy to understand and capable of producing a result that is accepted and commands confidence.

    6. The Order enables the Scottish Parliament to legislate for a referendum with one question on independence.  The wording of the question will be for the Scottish Parliament to determine and will be set out in the Referendum Bill to be introduced by the Scottish Government, subject to the Electoral Commission’s review process, as set out in the paragraphs which follow.

    • <sup>1</sup>: Section 30 order
      An Order made under section 30(2) of the Scotland Act 1998 allows modifications to be made to Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998, which lists those matters that are reserved to the UK Parliament, by either adding or removing reservations.
    • <sup>2</sup>: Part 7 of PPERA
      Part 7 of PPERA consists of four chapters setting out the framework for referendums held under an Act of the UK Parliament: I – Preliminary; II – Financial Controls; III – Controls on publications; and IV – Conduct of referendums.

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    7. For referendums delivered by an Act of the UK Parliament, section 104 of PPERA requires the Electoral Commission to review the proposed question and any statement that precedes the question and to report to the UK Parliament on the intelligibility of that question.  Section 10 of PPERA also provides that the Electoral Commission can provide advice and assistance to the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government.

    8. Consistent with the provisions in PPERA, the Scottish Government will refer the proposed referendum question and any preceding statement to the Electoral Commission for review of its intelligibility.  Interested parties will be able to submit their views on the proposed wording to the Electoral Commission as part of the Commission’s review process, in the normal way.  The Electoral Commission will report on the question and this report will be laid before the Scottish Parliament.  In turn the Scottish Government will respond to the report, indicating its response to any recommendations that the Electoral Commission may make.
    <h6>Franchise</h6>
    9. The Referendum Bill introduced by the Scottish Government will create a franchise for the referendum.  Both governments agree that all those entitled to vote <sup>3</sup> in Scottish Parliamentary and local government elections should be able to vote in the referendum.

    10. The Scottish Government’s consultation on the referendum also set out a proposal for extending the franchise to allow 16 and 17 year-olds to vote in the referendum.  It will be for the Scottish Government to decide whether to propose extending the franchise for this referendum and how that should be done.  It will be for the Scottish Parliament to approve the referendum franchise, as it would be for any referendum on devolved matters.

    11. The Scottish Government’s decision on what to propose to the Scottish Parliament will be informed by the analysis of responses to its consultation exercise and by practical considerations.  The Order does not restrict the extension of the franchise in the case of this referendum.
    <h6>Functions of the Electoral Commission and the Electoral Management Board</h6>
    12. Both governments agree on the importance of the referendum being overseen in an impartial way by bodies that can command the confidence of both sides of the campaign.  The Electoral Commission is responsible for overseeing referendums held under PPERA.

    PPERA gives the Electoral Commission responsibility for:

    • commenting on the wording of the referendum question
    • registration of campaigners
    • designating lead campaign organisations
    • regulating campaign spending and donations
    • giving grants to lead campaign organisations
    • publishing guidance for permitted participants
    • reporting on the referendum process
    • the conduct of the poll
    • the announcement of the result
    • <sup>3</sup>: The Scottish Parliamentary franchise
      The Scottish Parliamentary franchise enables British, Irish, qualifying Commonwealth citizens and European Union citizens resident in Scotland to vote.

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    13. The Electoral Commission was also given responsibility for promoting public awareness for voters in the 2011 Welsh and UK referendums.

    14. Both governments agree that the Electoral Commission should fulfil all these functions in respect of the independence referendum, with the exception of the conduct of the poll and announcement of the result, and the giving of grants (the Scottish Government proposes that there will be no grants of public money to lead campaign organisations).  In its role of regulating the campaign and campaign spending, the Electoral Commission will report to the Scottish Parliament.

    15. The Scottish Government proposes that the conduct of the poll and the announcement of the result should reflect the arrangements for local and parliamentary elections in Scotland and will be consistent with Scotland’s electoral management structure, co-ordinated by the Electoral Management Board.  The poll and count will be managed in the same way as those elections, by local returning officers (designated for the referendum as ‘counting officers’) and directed by a Chief Counting Officer (CCO). The Scottish Government proposes that the CCO should be the Convener of the Electoral Management Board.
    <h6>Referendum campaign regulation</h6>
    16. Both governments agree on the importance of ensuring that the referendum campaign is subject to regulation that ensures that the referendum is fair and commands the confidence of both sides of the debate.  The Referendum Bill introduced into the Scottish Parliament by the Scottish Government will include provision for the referendum rules.  The governments agree the regulations for the independence referendum campaign should be based on those set out in Part 7 of PPERA.

    17. The Order contains specific provision applying some of the PPERA rules to an independence referendum where it would be outside the Scottish Parliament’s legislative competence to make such provision.  These provisions relate to referendum campaign broadcasts and the sending of mail-shots free of charge.
    <h6>Referendum campaign broadcasts</h6>
    18. PPERA provides that only referendum campaign broadcasts made by or on behalf of designated campaign organisations can be broadcast.  The Communications Act 2003 requires Ofcom to impose licence conditions on broadcasters requiring them to observe rules set by Ofcom relating to referendum campaign broadcasts.

    19. The agreement between the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport and the BBC requires the BBC to broadcast referendum campaign broadcasts and provides that it is for the BBC Trust to determine the basis on which these are broadcast.  Both Ofcom and the BBC are required to have regard to the views of the Electoral Commission when making provision in respect of referendum campaign broadcasts.  In both the Communications Act 2003 and the agreement with the BBC ‘referendum campaign broadcast’ has the same meaning as in PPERA.

    20. The Order makes provision applying the provisions in PPERA relating to referendum campaign broadcasts to an independence referendum.  This will mean that Ofcom, the BBC and the Electoral Commission will have the same role in relation to an independence referendum as they would in relation to a PPERA referendum.
    <h6>Ensuring impartiality of broadcasters</h6>
    21. The governments agree that it will be important to ensure that broadcast coverage of the Referendum is impartial. Broadcasters, Ofcom and the Electoral Commission will discuss the best way to achieve this.
    Free-of-charge mail-shot

    22. PPERA allows a designated campaign organisation to send one mail-shot free of charge to every elector or household.  This service is provided by Royal Mail and funded by the UK Parliament through the Consolidated Fund.

    23. The Order makes provision applying this provision of PPERA to an independence referendum.  This will enable the designated campaign organisations to send out one mail-shot free of charge to every elector or household and for the Royal Mail to recover the cost of postage from the Scottish budget (the ‘Scottish Consolidated Fund’).
    <h6>Campaign finance</h6>
    24. Both governments recognise that campaign finance will be an important issue for those campaigning in the referendum, for the Electoral Commission in regulating the referendum, and for people in Scotland. It is important for each of these that the rules are fair and provide a level playing field.

    25. The Referendum Bill to be introduced by the Scottish Government will provide for the spending limits in the regulated period for the independence referendum. Both governments agree that the rules and standards set out in PPERA provide the basis for setting the limits.

    26. PPERA sets out spending limits for referendums held on a UK-wide basis and a mechanism for the Secretary of State to set the limits for sub-UK referendums by secondary legislation.  In setting such limits, the Secretary of State must consult the Electoral Commission and have regard to its views.  Whilst the UK Government is not statutorily required to accept the Commission’s recommendations, it regards the guidance of the Electoral Commission as a key consideration and has so far always followed the advice of the Electoral Commission when setting spending limits for referendums held under the PPERA framework.  If the Secretary of State does not accept the views of the Commission on the appropriate limits, he or she is statutorily obliged to lay a statement before both Houses of Parliament explaining his or her reasons for departing from its recommendations.

    27. The Scottish Government proposes that the regulated period for the independence referendum should be the 16 weeks ending on the date of the referendum. In setting the spending limits for the regulated period for the independence referendum, the Scottish Government will analyse and consider the responses to its consultation, consult with both existing referendum campaigns – neither of which was in existence during the Scottish Government’s consultation period – and have regard to the Electoral Commission’s views and will set out its proposals, and the evidence on which these are based, before the Referendum Bill is considered by the Scottish Parliament.  The Referendum Bill, including the proposed spending limits, will be subject to the established Scottish Parliamentary procedures and scrutiny.  The Bill, like any other Bill in the Scottish Parliament will, when introduced, be accompanied by a Policy Memorandum.  The Policy Memorandum will set out details of the consultation process for setting spending limits and details of any alternative approaches to any of the issues considered.  This will include a statement of reasons if there is any departure from the Electoral Commission’s advice on spending limits.

    28. Donations to registered political parties are already subject to a regulatory regime established in Part 4 of PPERA. There is, therefore, no need to create an additional set of rules regulating donations to registered political parties solely for the purposes of the referendum. Political parties will not be the only bodies wishing to campaign for a particular outcome at the referendum.  The Referendum Bill to be introduced by the Scottish Government will deal with controls of donations to permitted participants that are not registered parties or are minor parties.  As under PPERA, permitted participants will not be able to accept certain anonymous donations or certain donations from individuals or organisations from outside the UK.
    <h6>Government activity during the 28 days before the referendum</h6>
    29. It is customary for there to be a period before elections in the UK, during which Ministers and other public bodies refrain from publishing material that  would have a bearing on the election. Section 125 of PPERA sets out the restrictions that apply to Ministers and public bodies in the 28 days preceding referendums held under that Act. Both governments recognise the importance of respecting the 28-day period prior to a referendum, in the same way that both governments already respect each other’s pre-election period for Parliamentary elections.  The Scottish Government will set out details of restricted behaviour for Scottish Ministers and devolved public bodies in the Referendum Bill to be introduced into the Scottish Parliament. These details will be based on the restrictions set out in PPERA. The UK Government has committed to act according to the same PPERA-based rules during the 28 day period.
    <h6>Co-operation</h6>
    30. The United Kingdom and Scottish Governments are committed, through the Memorandum of Understanding <sup>4</sup> between them and others,  to working together on matters of mutual interest and to the principles of good communication and mutual respect.  The two governments have reached this agreement in that spirit.  They look forward to a referendum that is legal and fair producing a decisive and respected outcome.  The two governments are committed to continue to work together constructively in the light of the outcome, whatever it is, in the best interests of the people of Scotland and of the rest of the United Kingdom.

    • <sup>4</sup>: Memorandum of Understanding
      Memorandum of Understanding and Supplementary Agreements between the United Kingdom Government, the Scottish Ministers, the Welsh Ministers, and the Northern Ireland Executive Committee, 2000, as updated in September 2012″”
    • Nothing there about once in a lifetime.

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    lotto
    Member

    Tells me what I wanted to know, 👍

    I’d be genuinely interested to hear what you now know.

    Honestly, you come across as very academic and it would be good to hear your learnings.

    But for my sake, please refrain from your use of dialect, or has this request let you know even more about me? 🙄

    poah
    Member

    But one of the key principles of CfE in its first incarnation was that we had freedom to do what best suited our pupils need

    and then they come to secondary not knowing how to do a lot of basic numeracy & literacy. The number of pupils I’ve seen not being able to draw a graph or write a coherent sentence is shocking. CFE does not line up well with the SQA courses if schools are not teaching the right stuff. The jump from N5 top higher biology is big enough without the issue of pupils not knowing their arse from their elbow. As a parent I was not privy to how broke the education system is.

    Premier Icon kennyp
    Subscriber

    In Edinburgh you can send your kids to Uni for free, in newcastle it will cost them £30 000. In Edinburgh yuu can get free prescriptions, In Newcastle they will cost you etc etc. In edinburgh you will wait less time in A&E

    Good points……life here is generally pretty good. All achieved while being part of the UK.

    tpbiker
    Member

    Democracy is, of course, a one off event. That’s why I don’t understand why people keep bleating on about the SNP. We had the vote and the SNP won so that means they are our government now and forever. Isn’t it time to get over it and move on.

    That’s how democracy works, isn’t it

    It would be if the snp ever won another referendum…

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    Sturgeon is the only politician I have heard that when given a question on a tricky topic was prepared to say ( I paraphrase) ” Thats a tricky question, there are no simple answers, my personal instinct is this, party policy needs to be sorted out at conference” rather than pretending there is a simple solution that can be expressed in a soundbite and pretending they know all the answers

    the SNP is also the only party I have heard apologise for policy errors ( Salmond over Trump)

    To me this is one of the key reasons for their success. they sound like they actually believe what they say and sound genuine unlike Labour in Scotland who keep on having people make statements you can tell they do not believe – when opposing SNP policy by kneejerk for example.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
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    It would be if the snp ever won another referendum…

    First of all, the independence movement is much broader than the SNP (which is one of the reasons  any “once in a generation” statemt from a politician is irrelevant) but, even supposing a Yes vote happened, there would be nothing to stop a pro-dependency movement agitating to rejoin with the rUK. Not that I can think of any examples of that scenario playing out.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    lotto
    But for my sake, please refrain from your use of dialect, or has this request let you know even more about me?

    Yes, because it is not dialect, and your request is made from an assumption of cultural superiority.

    “Centuries of strife have led some Brits to regard the Scots language and its speakers as inferior or derivative of the dominant English culture. But Scots has a pretty good claim to being its own language; it has its own regional dialects, and is as related to modern English as Dutch is to Norwegian. “It’s as absurd to call Scots a dialect of English as it is to call English a dialect of Scots,” wrote late Scottish poet Norman MacCaig.”

    Surely if you are going to discuss independence with a resident of a country, then it should be in whatever language they choose to speak, not yours. So add bad manners to what it tells us.

    tpbiker
    Member

    Epicyclo…did I read on another thread you haven’t actually lived in scotland for 30 years?

    If so, No wonder you are so keen on independence.. you dont need to actually deal with the consquenses!

    Are you Sean Connery per chance?

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    Epicyclo…did I read on another thread you haven’t actually lived in scotland for 30 years?

    LOL, that’s definitely wrong.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    Good points……life here is generally pretty good. All achieved while being part of the UK.

    I’m not sure that all the folk at the food banks, those being repatriated against their will and all those suffering/about to suffer due to English Nationalism would agree with you.

    tpbiker
    Member

    LOL, that’s definitely wrong

    Probably yes..I was just going on this comment from the flooding thread..

    Having lived in the tropics for 30 years where we get monsoonal rain, I amazed at how little rain it takes to cause flooding in the country

    Premier Icon scotroutes
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    TBF, Epi is quite old mature. I’m sure he’s lived for 30 years on each of the continents.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    KennyP / Scotroutes – the story of the Zeilsdorfs at laggan stores perfectly shows how policies designed in London damage scotland. A small story but oh so illustrative.

    Premier Icon somafunk
    Subscriber

    ^, yep – that needs a explanatory link here as i imagine many folk will not be aware of the specific issue.

    Utterly **** despicable hounding of the family, their wee/(but tardis like inside) store was a brilliant boon for the area

    cbike
    Member

    A similar tale on Arran. Although Arran cheese man got his wish..presumably he’s gonna help pay for jetties for yachties..

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/04/arran-residents-plead-home-office-not-deport-young-woman-community/

    Premier Icon kennyp
    Subscriber

    The Zeilsdorfs, and cases like that, are pretty appalling, but that’s not a reason for Scotland separating from the rest of the UK. It’s a case for changing the existing laws, or applying them with a bit of compassion.

    policies designed in London damage scotland.

    Loads of policies designed in London that Scotland benefits from. NHS for example. Planned and implemented by that evil Westminster.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

     NHS for example. Planned and implemented by that evil Westminster.

    Do you think the NHS wouldn’t have come into force without Westminster? Bevans NHS was only implemented after a service was already covering half of Scotland.

    that’s not a reason for Scotland separating from the rest of the UK. It’s a case for changing the existing laws, or applying them with a bit of compassion.

    Hmm – I can think of one way we might change the existing laws to better apply to Scotlands needs.

    Premier Icon tjagain
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    kennyP – you are never going to get Westminster to change laws like that on immigration – they have to pander to their hard right / racist base

    Its a classic example of how Westminster ignores Scotlands needs

    Premier Icon kennyp
    Subscriber

    Do you think the NHS wouldn’t have come into force without Westminster? Bevans NHS was only implemented after a service was already covering half of Scotland.

    The problem is we can never know. There are so many variables implied by “without Westminster” it becomes impossible to know what may have happened.

    I was just making the point that millions of Scots have had their lives improved by decisions and policies designed and implemented by Westminster. Yes, there will have been bad things too of course, same with any government in any country.

    There is an SNP driven narrative that Westminster is this nasty place, out to stamp it’s evil colonial boot all over poor old downtrodden Scotland (read any independence forum and you’ll find those very phrases). The reality is far different. In fact speak to many English people and you’ll find they think Westminster is overly generous to Scotland (and Wales and NI).

    Premier Icon kennyp
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    kennyP – you are never going to get Westminster to change laws like that on immigration – they have to pander to their hard right / racist base

    Actually it’s pretty simple. The country just elects another government. Those immigration laws haven’t existed for ever. They are a very recent thing.

    Premier Icon kennyp
    Subscriber

    Its a classic example of how Westminster ignores Scotlands needs

    The Barnett formula. A classic example of how Westminster recognises Scotland’s needs.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
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    kennyp
    The Barnett formula. A classic example of how Westminster recognises Scotland’s needs.

    Only if you look at it through orange coloured glasses.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    Really Kenny? the Barnett formula is under constant attack and is manipulated all the time to reduce Scotlands spending. Yes many folk down south think Scotland gets too much money – thats because the lies are fed to them constantly by the press. An independent Scotland would be richer so that is a nonsense arguement

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    Ironic isn’t it. What this thread shows is that is is, in fact, the Unionists that don’t like taking responsibility. They’d much rather someone else did.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    tpbiker
    …did I read on another thread you haven’t actually lived in scotland for 30 years?

    Lived in Australia for 34 years, but have been back here for 16.

    Coming from Scotland, the thing I found amazing about Australia was that it wasn’t ruled by its next door neighbour New Zealand or Indonesia, but Australians were able to decide their priorities for themselves.

    It felt good living in a country with localised democracy like that.

    Really quite a revolutionary idea, and I suspect democracy would work quite well for Scotland too…

    Actually it’s pretty simple. The country just elects another government. Those immigration laws haven’t existed for ever. They are a very recent thing.

    And yet, England continually elects tory governments who ramp that kind of thing up.

    Honestly, if English people would stop doing that, there wouldn’t be an independence movement.

    Ironically, if you want the union to stay intact, don’t vote for the Unionist parties.

    CountZero
    Member

    If you can’t run a family & home on £50k you’re doing something far wrong.
    That’s a lot of money and leaves plenty of wriggle room for modest luxuries.

    Can somebody tell me in which universe an ordinary person can earn £50k/year, I’d very much like to go live there. That’s more than twice what I earn.

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