Sky TUE saga. Is it some sort of witch hunt?

They must have had flat batteries then. In 2015 team sky came second to BMC in the TTT and they were nowhere in the ITT.

When it comes to cycling I am incredibly cynical when teams dominate. This has spilled over in to many other sports for me unfortunately too. But the motorised doping is just incredible. Reading the colournoise post above I found this: http://www.typhoonbicycles.com/pages/technology/

I mean surely weighing wheels and frames and speccing them to manufacturers stats is a simple thing to do?

How do we know that the riders themselves haven’t had electric motors inserted in them? It would be far easier to hide than a motorised bike, but give a significant performance advantage.

That way the rider’s performance would be consistently enhanced, not tied to a particular bike and it would explain why, for example, Chris Froome went overnight from being a no-hoper riding sportives in Kenya to one of the best riders in the world.

It would also explain the looking down at the stem thing. It can’t be comfortable having a motor up ya. Plus who knows what settings and readings he may be monitoring? There must be a point at which his legs simply spin too fast, perhaps he needs to monitor that?

As far as I’m concerned, anyone who wins a race, particularly a big one, is a chaat. Just because we don’t know how they cheated, doesn’t mean they are clean. On the contrary, it means they have cheated full stop, fact. The sooner anyone who wins is disqualified, the sooner sport will be clean.

We should be working to make cycling great again!

When will the crooked UCI start to X-ray riders, particularly podium finishers?

Just hope there’s nothing to the Wiggins bashing going on in the press. The U.K. Media don’t seem to like our own sports people or teams doing well – always out to get them.

Given Wiggins’ all round talent in various aspects of cycling and different disciplines I think the motorised doping buts above seem unlikely to apply to him. The tue thing has played nic it in to Russia’s hands – its deflected a lot of debate away from their apparent state sponsored doping, yet Tues are ‘legal’ in cycling.

This package thing is a mystery – hope it gets cleared up.

Just in wiggins’ tour win – he. Luke only really gave done it in that years course – it had the right combo of time trials that suited him and climbs he could get through. Most other courses since have much more suited climbers like Froome. For me, his performances have been much more dominant and would raise more questions than Wiggins.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-cycling-hires-spin-doctors-pzwln3gln

Thanks for your links, Paton. Do you have an opinion? I’m asking because mostly you just seem to post hyperlinks to relevant stories, but the fact you can be bothered to do so suggests that you have some interest in the topic, but you never seem to comment.

@BWD: Why should (s)he comment? Maybe (s)he thinks that by giving you links you can read them and make up your own mind.

I post links without comment as well (although its pretty obvious where I stand on things 😉 ). I don’t always necessary feel the need to express an opinion on a link…

I’m not saying he or she should comment, I’m just interested in other people’s views. That’s just part of how forums are. Obviously no-one’s forced to have an opinion, I was just intrigued in the same way as it’s interesting to know what anyone else thinks.

My take on the spin doctor thing is that it’s possibly not surprising that an organisation in the middle of a media storm is trying to manage potential reputational damage. I’m guessing most organisations in a similar scenario would do something similar if they didn’t have the necessary expertise in house?

Other interpretations are available…

Can’t read the link as its behind the paywall, however if BC are starting to hire PR teams then I’d guess its as an attempt to distance themselves from Sky for when the fallout of the return of Cope to parliament hits home.

“Lawyers for both parties and some of the witnesses are understood to be negotiating over the draft, which sources have told Sky News makes “deeply uncomfortable reading” for senior figures in the sport.”

http://news.sky.com/story/boss-at-scandal-hit-vw-to-head-british-cycling-10761207

The only opinion that I might have is that the cyclists probably deserve better.

My turn to paste a link without comment, though I might be having a chuckle to myself…
http://road.cc/content/news/217350-british-cycling-shortlisted-governing-body-year-award

Also, even the TV reviewer in Private Eye is sticking the boot in now.

Made a gag about Wiggo saying he wasn’t properly “prepared” for The Jump.

2. It was tramadol.

Quite possibly, according to Barry[/url]

The dog ate my homework

But she said Ukad still does not know if Fluimucil was in the package – as opposed to the allegation that it contained the banned corticosteroid triamcinolone – because there is no paperwork.

“We have asked for inventories and medical records and we have not been able to ascertain that because there are no records,” she said.

Sapstead was asked why Dr Freeman cannot produce any evidence that he gave what was an unlicensed product in the UK to Wiggins, as he is obliged to do under correct medical practice.

“He kept medical records on a laptop and, according to Team Sky policy, was meant to upload those records to a dropbox that the other team doctors had access to,” she said.

“But he didn’t do that, for whatever reason, and in 2014 his laptop was stolen why he was on holiday in Greece.”

Sapstead said Ukad contacted Interpol to check if this theft was reported at the time but has not received any confirmation it was, although Freeman did report it to British Cycling.

Scotroutes, you beat me to it (I was going to go with ‘The dog ate my laptop’).

Interesting that the doctor has missed the hearing “because of ill health”.

I also enjoyed the comments by Simon Cope:

Questioned on why he did not ask what was in the package, he said: “Why would I question it? Why would I question the integrity of our governing body? I just didn’t ask. You may think I’m stupid.

“It must have been something medical, because it was for Dr Freeman, but I had no reason to doubt it. Throughout my career, I’ve looked up to our governing body. We’ve done so well and with a zero-tolerance stance [on doping].”

When pointed to the fact he was taking medical products overseas, Cope – who now manages Wiggins’ professional road-racing team – said: “I probably should have asked what was in the package but the other day I travelled down to Spain with 40 boxes in the car. I didn’t check every box, but I presume they were helmets.”

Cope was asked to explain a discrepancy between his recollection of his movements that week and the expense claim he submitted to British Cycling.

“I might have been trying to fiddle them. We all do that, don’t we?” he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/01/british-cycling-team-sky-package-bradley-wiggins

She agreed that the evidence her team had uncovered dealt a blow to the self-declared mission of Sky – which won the Tour de France in 2012 via Wiggins and has taken three more since with Chris Froome – to be demonstrably clean.

“It strikes me as odd, too, yes,” she said. “I would expect, particularly for a professional road cycling team that was founded on the premise of exhibiting that road racing could be conducted cleanly, to have records that would be able to demonstrate any inferences to the contrary.”

Yup, UKAD seem impressed….

What a mess, what a huge stinking pile of obfuscation and denial. I can see Froome getting dogs abuse at the tour this year.

Does British Cycling have a future in Olympic sport?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2017/03/02/team-sky-british-cycling-fire-missing-medical-records-latest/

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/20170302-about-bc-news-UK-Sport-and-British-Cycling-update-on-independent-review-progress-0

Wheels have come completely off now, last seen bouncing across an Italian field….

Testosterone patches ordered by ‘accident’, fellow doctors have to change pin codes to stop another requesting TUEs

It’s becoming a daily drip feed…

nah, you people need to stop whining

The triamcinolone was pretty much all for Brailsford, as it turns out. I’m guessing the “erroneous” testosterone too; I mean, look at his bald head. Proof enough for me.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/05/team-sky-doctor-richard-freeman-was-allegedly-sent-banned-testosterone-patches-doping

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/05/team-sky-sir-dave-brailsford

I’ve been saying since the autumn that Brailsford would be gone before the TdeF, wish I’d got odds on it. He’s staggered from one car crash to another, and Froome didn’t exactly come out in his corner when he was interviewed at the training camp earlier this year.

And as for the original question of a witchhunt I think that, like Armstrong, a lot of journalists have had a lot of suspicion and lots of off-the-record stuff but haven’t been able to say anything for fears of a libel claim, but as this has all come out in the CMS hearings (which hold parliamentary privilege) they can report on the content of the hearings without fear, as they aren’t the ones making the allegations.

The triamcinolone was pretty much all for Brailsford, as it turns out. I’m guessing the “erroneous” testosterone too; I mean, look at his bald head. Proof enough for me

He should have got a job with giant alpecin then, look at how luxuriant kittel is.

Having in a previous life been royally screwed by the press (Sunday Times) as a relatively junior member of staff I was sent on a media handling course (horse, stable, door, bolt….) – the first thing you are told is; get your ducks in a row – deal with the bad news comprehensively and early and move on and DON’T TELL FIBS because you will get found out. FFS Brailsford, Cope & Freeman need to be run out of town now. It smells like doping, it sounds like doping – IT IS DOPING.

De Jongh added that he was surprised that no paperwork existed with regards to the package from 2011. Team Sky doctors were supposed to follow a protocol that involved uploading medical notes to a shared Dropbox server. However, according to the team, Freeman rarely did this, despite reminders. UKAD revealed last week that Freeman’s laptop was stolen while on holiday in 2014. They are currently working with Interpol to confirm if a police report was made.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/de-jongh-i-cant-see-brailsford-lasting-at-team-sky/

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/athletics/eamonn-sweeney-the-devil-is-in-the-lack-of-detail-35502793.html

Makes a fair point about ‘marginal gains’ details that was so commonly touted vs the lack of much detail in the medical records revealed recently.

Personally, never thought the marginal gains thing was much more than marketing of focus and detail.

Hoisted by their own petard IMO.

Spend years making fuss about being clean and doing it right.
Now spend years finding out that the public expectation of ‘clean’ is different from their expectation of clean.
Now press are on to it all will come out eventually, and even if it is withing rules, I don’t think press or public will believe them, especially due to lack of detail and records.

A sorry state of affairs.

Hoisted by their own petard

is about right.

An excellent piece from Dec 2016 by Irish Peloton (Cillian Kelly)

Opinion: Team Sky’s reputation shredded by Brailsford failure

The press articles describing how the other Sky team doctors blocked the applications for TUEs by Richard Freeman, seem to indicate that if there was organised doping in Sky, only a select few of the support staff were involved, which would make sense given that the more people involved, the more likely it is that the conspiracy would be uncovered.

I always thought that it was unlikely that the BC track cyclists were doping, especially not collectively as a team rather than an individual, because the money involved for most track riders is relatively so low compared to pro road cycling, both in terms of what they were paid by BC as a salary and also in terms of what they might be able to earn after their racing career was over, with the exception of a few high profile riders like Chris Hoy and Victoria Pendleton.

If there were organised doping in the track team, I would have expected the prospect of a big payout from a tabloid newspaper to have resulted in a rider blowing the whistle by now, and instead the only whistle blowing we have seen was Jess Varnish’s allegations of sexism.

If the track team is clean, and if the suspicions about Sky and Brailsford are confirmed, then those track riders and BC support staff stand to be amongst the biggest losers and victims of the Sky debacle. At the very least their successes in the Olympics will be tainted by suspicions of doping.

Wiggins and Brailsford built their careers on the back of success on the track funded by UK Sport and BC, so it would be particularly galling if they are guilty of doping in pro road racing, and damage BC and the track team as a result.

The ‘erroneous’ delivery of testosterone patches is strongly suggestive of organised doping, rather than just gaming the TUE system. If it were to turn out that Freeman was helping Wiggins to dope, then as with Armstrong, it is likely that many of Wiggins’ past victories would be annulled, so the other riders in the 2016 Olympic pursuit team could lose their gold medals as a result, as Usain Bolt and his fellow relay team members similarly lost their gold medals because one of the team was found to have been doping.

I was completely with them until the missing medical administration records.

Even the shonkiest, poorly run facilities keep immaculate MAR sheets.
It’s the most basic of basics, top of page 1.

I just can’t get past that.

I always thought that it was unlikely that the BC track cyclists were doping, especially not collectively as a team rather than an individual, because the money involved for most track riders is relatively so low compared to pro road cycling…

by far the biggest earner in that equation is British Cycling, who take millions in Lottery funding via UK Sport on the basis of success (no medals = no money, see badminton etc). I’m not saying the track squad doped, but if they did the financial driver (with the deepest pockets) would be for it be organised by the team as all their staff salaries depended on success rather than individual riders.

Really don’t know how anything good is going to come out of this. SDB will probably have to fall on his own sword/petard. Gawd knows what Wiggins is going to do. Sky cycling team could easily collapse if Sky pull the plug on money if they look like they are getting their fingers burnt.

SDB will be gone before the Tour. Murdoch will have the team on notice and have an exit strategy around ‘mission accomplished’ if there’s a hint of a further scandal. Wiggins will continue to live off the Sky millions he banked, his endorsements and the adoration of his unwavering fanbois. Dunno if you’re on twitter or follow anyone ‘relevant’ (eg. cycling journos) but whenever there’s a post about this subject there are more indignant defences of Wiggins (how dare we besmirch a National Treasure?!) than there are condemnations.

“Sir Dave Brailsford: Team Sky riders ‘100% back’ boss”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39185863

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2017/03/02/james-murdoch-gives-team-sky-full-backing-jiffy-bag-controversy/

I am genuinely beginning to wonder if there’s any way back for Sky.

SDB will be gone before the Tour.

I’m coming round to this idea now.

And as for Wiggo, he chose not to explain himself so he’s tarnished for good now.

I expect he’ll just drift away from cycling and hope it all blows over with the wider public.

The thing with the testosterone patches is bizzare. Yeah, like that’s happened to me loads of times. Just turned up they did. Bloody Amazon…

Not sure what to make of it all really, but it seems pretty clear that there are some very murky waters. Which in some ways is not a big surprise, and I can accept that some teams will be taking advantage of the system in the same way that tax avoidance goes on in big business. But yeah…it’s getting murkier.

And for a team that claimed to be so squeaky clean…

One thing that concerns me is that if this really does blow up, it could be genuinely damaging to cycling in UK. Sky pulls out and we no longer have presence on the road. I can live with that. But funding will start getting pulled. GB track teams will suffer. Talented new riders will suffer from less support. It could potentially be a really bad thing, and I think many other countries have already gone through it and seen support for cycling diminish.

So as Sky are tarnished – does that mean the Kenyan is clean?
Or is he also involved in this …or is his medication also TUE?

I think if you’ve ever watched Sky then you need to supply a sample.