Sir! Keir! Starmer!

Ah, cross posts.

A drop in Labour’s popularity amongst Labour voters is Labour’s fault of course.

Well, as far as I can judge, Keir Starmer’s “performance” at Prime Minister’s question time was very good. Mims Davies on the other hand on the politics show reveals more band waggon jumping to try and disguise that the Tory performance whilst in power, was at best, inadequate.

I am fairly interested in politics but even I see PMQs as a complete waste of time. The less interested won’t even be aware of PMQs let alone watch it.
Labour are less popular because from the start they have just come across as a bit shit. They may have done some things and put in progress some good things but not many people are aware of that due to they unnecessary and more highlighted negative things such as WFA which was not a priority to sort out by any means.

It’s not just PMQ’s though. Kemi Badanochs bandwagon-jumping is so obvious it’s viable from space. People aren’t stupid. Everyone knows full well that her and Jenrick and Co, now all clutching their pearls in horror, couldn’t give a shit about the victims of grooming gangs before last weekend. To try and maintain that they actually always did is just gaslighting and everyone knows it.

Summed up well by Rafael Behr in todays Guardian

Kemi Badenoch was supposed to make the Tories serious again. She has failed

By jumping on Elon Musk’s passing bandwagon and echoing the far right, the Conservative leader has shown she doesn’t understand her responsibilities

EDIT: Mims Davies is presently debasing herself on Five Live by parroting Badanochs complete cobblers about having previously shown any concern for this subject. Matt Charley’s first question: you have a new leader of the opposition. How do you think Elon Musk is doing in the role?

Hes now absolutely shredding her ridiculous claims

The left are far, far more culpable of creating division than anyone else

Says every right winger in existence

People aren’t stupid.

Not a sentence that you often see written on STW political threads.

Starmer was DPP you know.

Not a sentence that you often see written on STW political threads.

Keep up, they are ill informed rather that stupid. And a lot of those ill informed people will actually still be backing whatever shit Badenoch says as they don’t like Labour whatever they do.

They are indeed, but it’s difficult to see how the Tories benefit from going head-to-head with Farage again, which Badanoch has now clearly signalled is the direction she intends to (willingly take the party

It’ll just be a repeat of last time, with a split right wing vote, with the beneficiaries only being Starmer and Ed Davey as moderate former Tory voters recoil from where the Tories are headed.

How do you think socially liberal ‘soft’ Tories feel about Kemi echoing Tommy Robinson, something even Nige drew the line at? I can hardly see her winning many voters back from the Lib Dems and frankly she’s so crap at this whole politics thing that she’s no chance taking on Farage 

I’m sure Labour were quite happy watching her hypocrisy and opportunism yesterday. Unless you’ve been living in a cave for the last 14 years, it’s fairly easy to see it for what it is. Even the Tories usual right wing cheerleaders in the press were looking a bit squeamish about how wise it was to go down that particular road

Binners, that all sounds a lot like talking about Republican voters in the USA only a few years ago. In opposition, it could well be that the Tories can sell some mad right wing plan to the electorate to return to office, with plenty of “soft tories” holding their nose to give them another go after only one term of having “the left” in office.

The main thing is that over there the Republicans have a monopoly on unhinged Nationalist populism with Trump. Just like Boris had in 2019 when Nige had reversed his tanks off his lawn. That’s not the case any more. It’s now glaringly obvious that Kemi plans to try and out-Farage Farage on the right.

I’m sure that Labour and the Lib Dems are delighted that she’s made that decision instead of a return to more of a centre ground position

Mims Davies is presently debasing herself on Five Live by parroting Badanochs complete cobblers about having previously shown any concern for this subject.

Ahh yes, the shadow Welsh secretary who is most unfortunately also my MP and who’s constituency is …checks google maps…in East Sussex around 200 miles from the Welsh border.

But at least she’s Welsh you say!   Erm, well not exactly (not at all) but she studied at Swansea University 30 years ago so eminently well qualified, but I suspect her real qualifications are an unyielding loyalty to the rightwing cause. I think that along with Clackton we came out worst in the GE after a sneaky boundary change which would otherwise have seen us have a Lib Dem MP – my house is literally 100m from the constituency boundary

It’s still amazing that some unhinged multiple billionaire like Evil Musk has such a sway amongst his far right congregation – bit of a farce in parliament yesterday.

Ahh yes, the shadow Welsh secretary who is most unfortunately also my MP

Used to be my MP and even had a meeting with her.  She offered some help with a matter but felt that she had no genuine interest in what I said.  Not popular either locally.

Oooh … Andy Burnham to replace the POS PM?  Getting interesting.

Burnham isno different or better tban Starmer.  Another weather vane politcian who will do and say anything to get a vote

The right wing must be terrified of Labour. It’s been one attack after another since they gained power.

Roll on covid enquiry over the vip lanes, and maybe some increased legislation on media rules governing truth.

Oooh … Andy Burnham to replace the POS PM?  Getting interesting.

Andy Burnham has absolutely zero interest in returning to Westminster in any guise and why would he? With 70% of the vote in the last mayoral election, which reflects how he’s viewed by everyone other than the gammons in Manchester, why would he want to put himself through that?

binners, once you were funny, now you’re hysterical!

The right wing, gammon, fascist, imbecile, knuckle draggers type rhetoric isn’t going to work any more, or rather it will work the same way as it did in the US and deliver a victory for the opposition.

For my money, Badenock will still be party leader at the next GE and she’ll likely win. The bookies have her and Farage at even Stevens [with a few more plumping for Farage] but I think Reform are like to continue to struggle to match their vote share with actual seats in  Parliament.

The Labour front bench looks shattered already and they’re only a few months in.

The Labour front bench looks shattered already and they’re only a few months in.

Agree. Looking at them in PMQs a few days ago they all look a lot older than they did 6 months ago, Reeves looked like her crap decisions are really taking a toll now. Oh well, they get a well? deserved rest in 4.5 years when they go back to being the opposition.

For my money, Badenock will still be party leader at the next GE and she’ll likely win. The bookies have her and Farage at even Stevens [with a few more plumping for Farage] but I think Reform are like to continue to struggle to match their vote share with actual seats in  Parliament.

Can you personally afford to live comfortably with the kind of policies Badenoch or Farage will implement?

Areas to consider; blockers to affordable healthcare, removal of work protections, increased costs for non-public sector services due to reduction in public services, lack of control over utilities and increasing bills, increased private rental costs and less protection etc etc.

Also expect an attack on all benefits, including pensioner ones (as non-working benefits are the greatest cost).

What gains are you expecting, presumably you benefited hugely from the previous 14 years of Tory Govts (what areas)?

Oh, and we can’t avoid Brexit – this was obviously your key policy, what are the key benefits here (and when are they turning up)?

Can you personally afford to live comfortably with the kind of policies Badenoch or Farage will implement?

I won’t be able to live comfortably with current labour policies, I recon I have taken around a 25% hit on my earning in the past 5 years already, and austerity is still biting the masses while further enriching the oligarchs. IMO it is those who can afford to live comfortably already that are so keen on labours current path, they have bought the right wing rhetoric that change can’t be afforded, they are the ones that are neutral to austerity and just don’t want to believe how hard it is hitting those poorer, (and/or younger) those who don’t have assets and are having any possibility of getting assets steadily removed from them.

 I recon I have taken around a 25% hit on my earning in the past 5 years already

I appreciate the point about ongoing austerity, but if you can’t afford to live under Labour you’ve got no chance in he’ll under the party that was in power the first 4.5 years of that period.

Anyone know if it’s true that no Reform MPs, defenders of our rights and freedoms, were in Parliament for the child protection debate yesterday?

but if you can’t afford to live under Labour you’ve got no chance in he’ll under the party that was in power the first 4.5 years of that period.

Well I hope that at some point labour wake up and smell the roses, and the only way that is going to happen is if they start to feel the disapproval of the electorate. That won’t be with Starmer and Reeves at the helm though, they are absolutely believers in neoliberal dogma.

Just being less worse than the last shower of shit isn’t good enough, beating a five year old shouldn’t make me the a world boxing champion, being smarter than a lettuce doesn’t make someone capable of running a country.

How about we start wanting some positive change, just accepting a slight slow down in the shitifacation of life, isn’t good enough.

Anyone know if it’s true that no Reform MPs, defenders of our rights and freedoms, were in Parliament for the child protection debate yesterday?

Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill, debated on Wednesday? Nigel Farage, Richard Tice and Rupert Lowe took part

Violence against Women and Girls, debated on Thursday? Appears not

Emily Darlington, (Milton Keynes Central) (Lab),

Previous Governments have treated violence against women and girls as inevitable, or, more recently, a political opportunity, instead of the national emergency that it is. I feel sorry for the hon. Member for East Grinstead and Uckfield (Mims Davies), who I know feels strongly on this, but who is not in the Chamber today? There is not a single Reform MP, which shows how much they care. There is no show from the shadow Home Secretary, the right hon. Member for Croydon South (Chris Philp), who said that he really cared about the issue, and no show from the shadow Justice Secretary, the right hon. Member for Newark (Robert Jenrick), who also said that he cared about the issue. I guess they care about it only when they can put out Facebook ads afterwards.

All sourced from Hansard

@intheborders.

You are confusing what I said I think is going to happen with what I want to happen.

I voted remain and have always voted left or centre left, yet you chose to completely misread my post. Though I would cite your post and others like it as another reason why I think Labour could get wiped out at the next GE. Making stuff up, rather like hurling abuse at anyone who doesn’t think like you [see binners] will not deliver you the result you wish for and will likely deliver the opposite. [see what’s just happened over the pond].

I agree with what MSP posted, though I’d add that that I see Labours offer as a toxic mix of austerity and identity politics. Toxic and unworkable.

Labour will continue to lose voters in their working class heartlands. They won’t be able to rely on the minority vote they way they traditionally have and in four years time we will see the youth vote move significantly rightwards.

Consider as well that the next generation of Labour politicians and activist are far more on the progressive wing than the current Cabinet [many having come into politics on the wave of Corbyn enthusiasm] and I just can’t see Labour going anywhere but down.

The opposite of what I want to happen but what I think is going to happen.

You are confusing what I said I think is going to happen with what I want to happen.

You mean stuff like this ?

Can you personally afford to live comfortably with the kind of policies Badenoch or Farage will implement?

Yeah I found it very strange that you pointing out the growing threat from Badenoch and Farage should apparently be interpreted as support for them.

Perhaps the STW consensus is that only people who deny Badenoch and Farage are a threat are really opposed to them.

I agree with what MSP posted, though I’d add that that I see Labours offer as a toxic mix of austerity and identity politics. Toxic and unworkable.

The recent bond market flap has shown that Labour are backed in to a corner on spending, I dont see much of a way out of where they are now on this, the kind of spending pledges that we’d all like to see will cause a market rout and leave them with Truss mk2; interest rates & inflation soaring. All of that is made worse by Trump pushing his tariffs and other bonkers plans.

I appreciate the point about ongoing austerity, but if you can’t afford to live under Labour you’ve got no chance in he’ll under the party that was in power the first 4.5 years of that period.

This.

Labour will continue to lose voters in their working class heartlands.

These people moved to the Tories with Thatcher, and then backed Leave &  Johnson – they’re the very people who’ll suffer with Badenoch/Farage AND will continue to blame others (immigrants) for their plight.

I come from one of these areas, and looking at the FB feed from my old town it’s all pro-Reform AND complaining how shite public services are.

in four years time we will see the [ male ] youth vote move significantly rightwards

Slight amendment, based on what’s been happening in other countries (that use the same social media platforms).

Asset inflation is debt to future generations that has a far greater impact than bond markets. The fact that house prices have rissen far faster than wages means younger and future generations are committed to far more debt than past ones, stock markets rising far faster than wages means that younger and future generations can only but smaller and smaller crumbs to fund their pensions.

I am not saying that markets have zer0 impact on everyday life, but they are no where near as significant as these debts which are conveniently ignored when debt is talked about, because these are the debts that affect the poor far more than they affect the wealthy.

And seeing as the money keeps flowing up the pile to those at the top, I really don’t buy the “we can’t afford it” argument. For the past 40+ years we have been told no wage increases without productivity increases, well productivity has also far outstripped wage growth, so the general population has delivered, but the asset owners haven’t. We don’t need more growth, we are desperate for better distribution of what we already have.

These people moved to the Tories with Thatcher

I am not so sure that many red wall seats fell to Thatcher.

Asset inflation is debt to future generations that has a far greater impact than bond markets.

Thats a very good point but its the very opposite of what actually happens, ie a booming house price market is seen is a mark of successful government and a crash would be seen as labour disaster, youve seen what it did to Truss and the impact on people with variable mortgages or up for renewal was very real.

Rising house prices are sold to the general public as a mark of a successful government, but it is generational debt that the next generation has to pay. It is right wing propaganda, an obvious financial bubble, a complete lie, but never questioned.

Fixing it by crashing it wouldn’t be good (for those who own the assets, especially newer entrants into ownership), but wage growth outstripping asset growth to compensate 40 years of unspoken failure would start to address the problem.

That profit on those assets that were bought 20 or 30 years ago, profit that has far outstripped wage growth, who do you think pays for that? It isn’t a magic money tree, that profit is a debt burden to the following generations.

youve seen what it did to Truss and the impact on people with variable mortgages or up for renewal was very real.

The impact would have been less if so many weren’t forced to overcommit financially just to have a roof over their heads, if housing was treated as homes instead of an investment market.

I am not so sure that many red wall seats fell to Thatcher.

I didn’t say that the seats did, but the less-well educated did.

The impact would have been less if so many weren’t forced to overcommit financially just to have a roof over their heads, if housing was treated as homes instead of an investment market.

i don’t disagree at all but how do you make that happen?

wage growth outstripping asset growth to compensate 40 years of unspoken failure would start to address the problem.

and raising minimum wage will go so far , but increased employer costs from ni tax raise etc are feeding in to current problems re bonds etc and that is going to at the very least mean interest rates will stay higher for longer. And a big public worker pay rise would be a huge cost to government.

Im not trolling, I just genuinely don’t see what can be done differently?