Silly dilemma..IP Camera, Dog walker

Recently employed a dog walker to come into the house every lunchtime and walk the dog as we are now both back at work. She’s a neighbour and we trust her to have a key etc, no reason not to. She doesn’t charge much and offers a half hour walk at lunchtime.

We often come in and find the dog bed and his toys in funny places, scattered around the kitchen so I thought I would get an IP Camera so that we could see what he gets up to. I set it up and checked it a couple of times on the first day, there wasn’t much happening, lazy little sod just snoozes. I did see the dog walker come in though, take him out and then put him back after around 17 minutes. I was a bit disappointed, not the 1/2 hour she promises.

On the second day we thought it best to tell her that we had installed the camera, as we didn’t want her to think that it was for her and that we didn’t trust her. It’s not hidden, and sits in the middle of the kitchen worktop, and is pointing down at the dog bed. I stress that our original motive was to spy on our pooch for a bit of fun, nothing else.

She has taken offence to the camera, suggesting that we have installed it to keep an eye on her, which is utter rubbish. If I didn’t trust her, she wouldn’t be coming into my home, bottom line. I have taken the camera down, as she is valuable to us, and I don’t want to cause offence, but the more I think about it, the more I feel I am entitled to have whatever I want in my house, and that she wouldn’t have taken offence if she didn’t have something to hide.

Part of me thinks I should just leave it up and let her get on with it, and make sure she is doing what we agreed at the same time. I don’t care about the money, I care about the welfare of the dog, so want him to have 1/2 an hour during the day.

I want to bring up his short walk but don’t know if that was a one off, or a regular occurrence, but I don’t want to lose her as we would have to make other arrangements and dog walkers are hard to find.

Maybe you’re just disappointed she didn’t try on your pants?

EDIT: I know I would have been.

I suspect she’s a bit miffed as she knows you’ll have clocked the walk at only 17 minutes (which, tbf, is bugger all, depending on the dog of course). As long as you’ve let her know, I don’t see a problem with it, but spying for a day or two and then telling her is a bit off. I have no idea of the legalities surrounding this kind of thing though.

I would be checking ALL the footage, after that response…

I’d install a second camera watching your toothbrush…

Surely if you trusted her implicitly you’d never have put the camera there in the first place?

Now you’ve found she isn’t trustworthy you’re struggling with dealing with the fall out but your original ‘something’s wrong’ hunch has been supported by the evidence?

don’t see the issue here, personally I wouldn’t have told her

It’s not recording, you can just log in when you like.

Whether you beleive it or not, our motives were so innocent that it didn’t even dawn on us to tell her, it was only when we talked about it that we thought we should mention it. It was on plain view too. Up until this point, I trusted her implicitly.

DD – he gets around 3 hours total walking exercise a day during the week, + a lot of indoor playing + big garden time. He doesn’t leave my side at weekends, goes everywhere with me and gets hours of exercise. He’s fine.

Surely if you trusted her implicitly you’d never have put the camera there in the first place?

I did cover that in my OP – It was a bit of fun to see what he dog got up to, not to spy on her! If I was that way inclined and I’d wanted to spy on her, i wouldn’t have left it in plain view, wouldn’t have aimed it at the dog bed, and wouldn’t have told her about it.

Can you not just leave the camera turned off, and ask her to turn it on as she leaves the dog after the walk? Then you can spy on him all afternoon.

double post.

don’t see the issue here, personally I wouldn’t have told her

It would have save a lot of grief, but didn’t expect her to react in that way.

and that she wouldn’t have taken offence if she didn’t have something to hide.

Bingo.

People can be weird, as it turns out she probably does have something to hide but that’s not necessarily why she doesn’t like it. Some people have cctv in/around their houses, is she bothered about that?

Just stick with “it’s not to watch you, it’s to watch my lazy dog”, does mean you can’t really use it to complain about the fact she’s not giving you the 30 minutes promised though 😉

I was feeding a neighbour’s cat the other day and there was some really appealing cooked meat in the fridge that I was tempted to snaffle but I didn’t in case there was a camera somewhere…
If we had someone visiting our house when we weren’t there I would be tempted to set up a camera.

I am fairly sure it is against UK law to surveil (yes, its a word) somebody without their knowledge.

I cleaned rich people’s houses when I was at Uni. It never occurred to me not to help myself to lunch out of the fridge, if I was there at lunchtime. One lady used to leave lunch out for me, and apologise if it wasn’t suitably lavish. Cultural differences I guess ?!?

Can you not just leave the camera turned off, and ask her to turn it on as she leaves the dog after the walk?

^ this, it will reinforce to her that it’s the dog you want to watch not her, no reasonable* person could take offence to that.

*which means if she does take offence then you need to wonder why…

A word of semi-warning though, we also set up a webcam to watch our pooch when we first got her, an unintended side-effect was random txt and phone calls from my mother to alert me that the dog had run out of food/wasn’t in sight/might have been stolen/looked bored etc, so make sure you don’t let anyone else have the details 😉

The thing is OP, the dog walker lady doesn’t belive you installed the camera to watch your dog. I don’t blame her as I can scarcely believe it 😀

Just install a covert camera. She’s being arsey as she knows she’s probably been found out (about the short walkies).

Now the seed of distrust is planted, it’ll not end well. Neighbour too… that’s going to be awkward.

I am fairly sure it is against UK law to surveil (yes, its a word) somebody without their knowledge.

“The Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA) imposes strict rules on the use of security cameras themselves and the use of images of private individuals innocently going about their business. Section 36 of the DPA states that personal data – including video footage of an individual – captured only for limited domestic purposes is not covered by the restrictions of the DPA.”
http://www.protectingyourself.co.uk/security-cameras-and-the-law.html

Leave out a bucket for her to put over the camera when she arrives and remove again when she leaves.

That way you can watch the dog while it’s there and she can go about abusing your toothbrush her pre/post dog walking activities in private.

With the added bonus that you can see what time it gets covered and uncovered, hence knowing how long she spent with the dog 🙂

What is it you think your dog is up to while you’re out? Gets the bitches round?

It’s her right to be offended and not be happy about it and it’s your right to install a camera in your home.

Either get a new dog walker and make it clear from the start your intentions, or work with neighbour and remove camera.

Seems if you want cheap and convenient then it comes with a few more issues.

A site that sells CCTV cameras – good source for reliable and trustworthy advise on the legalities of CCTV cameras !

The “limited domestic purposes” makes home CCTV pointless except as a deterrent in any case, as you can’t do anything with the images such as use them as evidence unless you have all the right notices etc in place, which negates the “domestic purposes”.

There is also a case in the ECJ at the moment around the domestic purposes exemption and CCTV. I don’t have the information to hand but IIRC they were giving it a much more restricted scope than most people thought.

Maybe you’re just disappointed she didn’t try on your pants?

EDIT: I know I would have been.

+1

A site that sells CCTV cameras – good source for reliable and trustworthy advise on the legalities of CCTV cameras !

The “limited domestic purposes” makes home CCTV pointless except as a deterrent in any case, as you can’t do anything with the images such as use them as evidence unless you have all the right notices etc in place, which negates the “domestic purposes”.
🙄
Fine, Page 7 of this PDF from the Information Commissioner’s Office says it too. Regardless of if you can use it for anything else, the OP isn’t breaking the law.

Pay attention, I said it was against the law to surveil somebody, not set up a camera.

P.S and which PDF you forgot the link – I think you will find the ICO code of practice is for organisations, so fail to quote it all you like, it is not relevant here.

(does nobody care about the details any more ?)

Her problem and she needs to get over herself and do what she’s being paid for. Your webcam is hardly any different to an alarm system that keeps a log of doors being opened – I bet she wouldn’t have a problem with that.
I bet she’s do the full half hour if you were at home when she arrived.

As it appears I must:

Suveil:
continuous observation of a place, person, group, or ongoing activity in order to gather information:
“video cameras used for covert surveillance.”

My other half leaves the ipad on with an audio recording app running sometimes during the day – purely to make sure the dog wasn’t barking all day & driving the neighbours mental – transpires our dog walker puts on a funny voice & has full on converstaions with him – it’s brilliant, i.e. Dog: “bark bark bark” Dog walker: “now I don’t think that’s any way to talk to me mister” dog: “bark bark bark bark” dogwalker: “well how am I supposed to get your arms in your jacket when you won’t sit still?” etc. etc… Better than eastenders anyway.

But yeah, if you remove the camera – sneak another one in to monitor your toothbrush*

*this might be a terrible idea if she needs a Forrest Gump and uses your bathroom & may result in a visit from the local constabulary for unwittingly filming your dogwalker depositing her afternoon “u-bend-straightener”.

“video cameras used for covert surveillance.”

Is it “covert” if the OP says the camera is on full display and he has (now) informed the dog walker of it?

If it’s covert you need a RIPA authority. Unless you put inform the person its there.

I don’t think it’s as clear cut as that if the camera is installed within your own home and is just taking images from within the home.

if its about the dog can you stick a tracker on it or a pedometer 🙂

People are mental. End of story.
See: people who get funny about visible cameras and those who like to spy on their pets. 😯

She must freak out in shopping centres!!?

There seem to be many occasions where covert cameras are set up which reveal abuse or theft from vulnerable elderly or disabled people by their carers, and nothing is said about illegal use of said cameras.