Shooting in Paris; casualties reported. Hope this isn't what it sounds like.

Things will kick off soon by the look of things …

If Hollande does not act then he will be viewed as a donkey in the French eyes.

Do we expect local church groups to mobilise when a christian nutjob kicks off somewhere? The W.I.? The local boys choir?

Would be nice if they did.

Was saddened last night when all this unfolded, saddened even more now as the realisation settled in.

Do we expect local church groups to mobilise when a christian nutjob kicks off somewhere?

There are plenty of Christian nut jobs doing crazy stuff.

But when was the last time a terrorist act was committed in the “name” of a Christian Church, particularly with the final amibtion of the destruction of a non-Christian religion?

As per other comments, Saudi is the home of extremism we accept it because of the trading links.

I’m not sure why they go for harder guarded targets like London and Paris – they could go to somewhere like Derby in a few weeks during Xmas shopping, walk into the shopping centre unhindered and cause as many or more casualties.

How hard do you think it is to enter London and Paris?

A person can enter any town in any country as we dont have police checkpoints/body searches enroute.

As for Muslims condemning them its on their website , its on facebook so perhaps its because you dont read these places

We are profoundly saddened by the loss of innocent lives in Paris, and our deepest condolences are with the family and friends of the victims, and the French nation.

Britons of all backgrounds, of every faith, every denomination, and none, are horrified by what we have learned, and are determined that those who seek to divide our diverse and peaceful communities in Europe will not succeed.

There is no justification for murder, and all British faith communities agree that those who commit acts of violence cannot do so in the name of any faith. Any such claim is illegitimate.

British Muslim communities are equally appalled by the violence, and angered by those who commit abhorrent acts in the name of religion. The perpetrators do not represent us; their views are perverse and self-serving.

We urge all communities in Britain and France to stand firm with compassion and solidarity. We must not let these terrorists divide us, otherwise the terrorists will win. Let us not play into their divisive narrative, and instead show them that people of all faiths and none can live peacefully, together.

Like the terrorists who want to divide communities, there will be some in the days ahead who will try to use this atrocity to attack innocent people. We equally reject their intentions.

It is evil people who do evil things; such acts will only increase our resolve to remain united.

+Lots of folk signing it

But when was the last time a terrorist act was committed in the “name” of a Christian Church, particularly with the final amibtion of the destruction of a non-Christian religion?

Well there are white supremacist attacks fairly often and I dont feel any social pressure to point out that I am white but have nothing to do with folk like this and despise everything they say

Why do Muslims need to condemn this its a given that “any right thinking person” condemns it.
I dont need to ask them ,the RNLI, the British Legion or the AA what they think of it as i know.

wilburt – Member

As per other comments, Saudi is the home of extremism we accept it because of the trading links.

That place will return to the rightful owner the desert sand in future once all these troubles are over – It’s not a matter of if but when (I am referring to their objective of world domination and when the world takes action against them in future – not a single event like in Paris but multiple events over the world).

Junkyard – lazarus

It is evil people who do evil things; such acts will only increase our resolve to remain united.

+Lots of folk signing it [/quote]

If evil people do evil things – take them out!

What’s the point of pussy footing singing about it? This is not a musical competition you know.

I don’t need to ask them what they think of it as I know

Precisely
But as I pointed out, Islamophobes are a sickeningly ignorant bunch 🙁

Why do Muslims need to condemn this its a given that “any right thinking person” condemns it.

Because right now a lot of people are tarring every day people who just happen to be Muslims with the same brush.
The last thing anyone wants is extra fuel for fascists.

A man with a pedal-towed piano turned up at the concert hall and played Imagine.

There’s no enough condemnations in the world to satisfy people that have already decided to blame Muslims.

Why weren’t rando Americans asked to condemn the deliberate bombing of civilian hospitals?

But when was the last time a terrorist act was committed in the “name” of a Christian Church, particularly with the final amibtion of the destruction of a non-Christian religion?

Well, there was that time Orthodox fanatics killed 8,000 Muslims in the middle of Europe: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

I don’t remember being asked to condemn it because I’m a Christian

konabunny – Member
I don’t remember being asked to condemn it because I’m a Christian

Are you Christian? Do you go to Church? Are you a believer as in God creation?

If not then there is nothing to do with you (assuming STW rationality of science) however having sympathy and trying to help another being is a good thing …

Posted on the other thread too

One terrorist confirmed as Syrian who passed through Greece as a registered refugee – AFP/Reuters/Sky

Anyone going to a vigil tonight?

Nah I’ve changed my profile on Facebook to me covered in a French flag, that’s enough

One terrorist confirmed as Syrian who passed through Greece as a registered refugee – AFP/Reuters/Sky

To be precise, one passport found at the scene on the body of one of the attackers. Not confirmed it was his passport.

Because “I’m going on a suicide mission, better take my real passport” isn’t the first thing you’d expect a professional terrorist to think.

Well, there was that time Orthodox fanatics killed 8,000 Muslims in the middle of Europe: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre
I don’t remember being asked to condemn it because I’m a Christian

You didn’t need to as your Government did it for you and the UN.

If you remember there was heavy criticism of the Dutch peace keepers who pulled out and basically left them to it.

So the fact that every Muslim government including Iran, plus Hamas and Islamic Jihad have condemned the attacks means we can stop going on about wanting ordinary Muslims to as well.

…heavy criticism of the Dutch peace keepers who pulled out and basically left them to it…

Tbf, while the situation wasn’t black and white, I don’t remember anyone criticising the “Dutch Christians” who left them to it.

jambalaya – Member

Posted on the other thread too

One terrorist confirmed as Syrian who passed through Greece as a registered refugee – AFP/Reuters/Sky

NO WAY?! You’re telling me that in the biggest migration seen since the second world war, amid the utter chaos of a war zone best by various factions of armed-to-the-teeth psychotic lunatics, as millions flea an entire region thats dissolved into anarchy, into another region without borders, completely unprepared to deal with it, that somehow, though god only knows how, ISIS has managed to smuggle a terrorist in

Well **** me! They’re cleverer than I thought! How the hell did they manage that? The devious bastards!

You didn’t need to as your Government did it for you and the UN.

Well, the suggestion about who needed to condemn the attack was this:

What reaction has there been from the uk Muslim community?

So why does that work? Why does the “UK Muslim community” need to condemn anything when David Cameron and every other British politician has condemned the attack?

(It’s stupid to talk about a UK Muslim community anyway, as there isn’t one single community.

Because “I’m going on a suicide mission, better take my real passport” isn’t the first thing you’d expect a professional terrorist to think.

Carrying ID is a legal requirement in France and pretty rigorously enforced, particularly in Paris. Stop and ask a cop for directions and they’re very likely to ask to see your ID. Some of the Charlie Hebdo terrorists had real ID cards on them I seem to remember.

All family and friends safe but have heard a very sad story. There will be many to come out I’m sure. A lot of teenagers where at the concert.

The terrorists want their real identities to be known, as far as they and sympathisers are concerned they are doing something worthy of a very great honour

better take my real passport

Hmm, there’s two questions there though aren’t there?

I) did the Syrian passport actually belong to the perpetrator (ie. was the person identified in the passport the person who blew himself up)

Ii) even if it wasn’t actually *his*, was the perpetrator a foreign national who used that passport to enter the EU on the basis of being a Syrian refugee.

Both the above leave open the vital question of border security, and the possibility/probability/inevetability that terrorists are entering the EU claiming refugee status.

Both, arguably, also support the argument that was being made by the ‘right wing nutters’ some time ago that people seeking to enter the EU as refugees ought to be quarantined and processed carefully rather than just allowed to enter.

Righteo – just seen this point of view posted elsewhere – said that nuclear weapons obviously don’t deter our current gretest threat, so wh are we spending an absolute fortune on replacing them?

Nuclear weapons – because who knows what threats will arise in the future? Because who knows how other nuclear powers – Russia, China, would react if we ditched ours?

About 15 years ago sections of military intelligence were saying that conflicts would be more guerrilla action than toe to toe big guns.

Sometimes I despair of humanity. Able to make you weep with pride and anger.

There’s an iman on TF1, his condemnation is in stronger terms than François Hollande last night. “Il faut sanctionner les lieux de prière qui sont les lieux de haine”.

Edit: “We must punish places of worship that are places of hate”.

Punishing the hate sites – good plan.

said that nuclear weapons obviously don’t deter our current gretest threat, so wh are we spending an absolute fortune on replacing them?

Current

Doesn’t mean that it’s our only threat, doesn’t mean nuclear weapons are our only response, doesn’t mean that they are our only deterrence.

The concept of deterrence is focused around a variety of different potential threats and responses, to dismiss it as ‘we have nuclear weapons and they haven’t deterred terrorist attacks’ given that they represent about 6-7% of the (bit under) 2% of GDP that we spend on defence (plus a bit under 1% of GDP on foreign aid) is to state that ‘we also have planes, bombs, guns, soldiers, submarines, foreign aid, immigration, emigration, education, medical aid programmes and debt relief, but none of them deterred it either’

We had nuclear weapons in the Cold War, I don’t think we ever suggested that they were a deterrence against IRA terrorism, nor would I suggest that we would have ever seen them as a proportionate response to IRA terrorism however terrorism was not the only threat that we faced during the Cold War (even though we recognise that the arming and funding of the IRA was, in part, an aspect of the Cold War, given KGB funding etc.) nor is it the only threat we face today, or may face in the future.

Nuclear weapons are a means to ‘mutual assured destruction’and nothing else.

I for one am willing to point every WMD at every Marmite factory in the world, if it wasn’t for the risk of super heated Marmite raining down from the skies and smothering me to death (and beyond)

What’s the motivation, other than spreading terror via fear?.

Do ISIS/ISIL have an interest in stopping the mass migration for the Middle East into Europe?. This event will give a few governments who are looking for an excuse to shut their borders to do exactly that.

Nobeerinthefridge – Member

What’s the motivation, other than spreading terror via fear?.

Do ISIS/ISIL have an interest in stopping the mass migration for the Middle East into Europe?. This event will give a few governments who are looking for an excuse to shut their borders to do exactly that.

Even in fundamentalist terms, they are an extreme group. People use the term death cult, there’s a good PDF on them, link please. They want to incite a holy war. This attack rightly or wrongly alienate Muslims, increase police and military pressure on those communities and obviously embolden racists, white supremacists….

I would imagine attacks like this will make it more difficult for refugees to easily integrate into western European societies and increase the chances that some of them will be marginalised/radicalised.

It may also lead to further western military in Syria/Iraq leading to further protracted fighting and total war in the middle east. Who knows.

I think you’re right and that that’s exactly what these headbangers want. They’re actively seeking the final confrontation (unlike btw the Taleban).

Headbangers is about right- this is from earlier this year, and should probably be essential reading; Atlantic article[/url]

Also, the best response I’ve seen, from Charlie Hebdo’s cartoonist, Joann Starr:

This made a really shit situation even worse..

Complete and utter twunt.

If you want terrorism* to end you need terrorists to stop and reverse their previously held positions. Its surely proof that peace and reconciliation can happen,.

* I know that debate and I am just using that word here to reply.

Don’t follow the herd and add the tricolour to your facebook page it means nothing ,neither will prayers