Shooting in Paris; casualties reported. Hope this isn't what it sounds like.

I’ve repeatedly posted the “tag line” NOT all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims.

(Corrected to read what I imagine you actually meant)

But you’re still wrong. Very, very wrong. Not all terrorists are Muslims. As has already been stated. Why are you continually ignorant/dismissive of this?

If you use that same logic, then we can easily state that ‘not all men are terrorists, but (pretty much) all terrorists are men’.

Shall we suspect, fear, hate and demonise all men?

Just a suggestion, but perhaps we should concentrate on the actual,real threats that are firing automatic weapons and using plastic explosives in city centres, not ones which you personally find offensive just because of their political ideals?

Anders Breivik for example?

This is in the US, but:

But headlines can mislead. The main terrorist threat in the United States is not from violent Muslim extremists, but from right-wing extremists. Just ask the police.

In a survey we conducted with the Police Executive Research Forum last year of 382 law enforcement agencies, 74 percent reported anti-government extremism as one of the top three terrorist threats in their jurisdiction; 39 percent listed extremism connected with Al Qaeda or like-minded terrorist organizations. And only 3 percent identified the threat from Muslim extremists as severe, compared with 7 percent for anti-government and other forms of extremism.

I’m not trying to pretend there is no problem with Islamist terrorism (obviously), but it’s massively, massively overblown. Over 6000 people committed suicide in the UK in 2013 and the rate is rising, especially amongst middle-aged men – so surely an issue that should be of far greater concern than Islamist terrorism? Do we hear calls from the PM to spend billions of pounds on a ‘war on suicide’ and hysterical headlines about the growing threat?

No because there are no sexy pictures and videos of shouty men with beards with exotic looking flags holding rocket launchers or devastated cities involved, so the press don’t give a ****, and it’s not a convenient excuse to prop up our arms industry and take part in international dick-waving, so the government don’t give a ****.

I’m only using it as one example obviously but awful as it is for those directly caught up in it the effect of Islamist terrorism on the vast majority of people’s lives is pretty much zero. We just need to carry on exactly as we are and accept the fact that sometimes people will slip through the net and awful things will happen.

5 people die in car crashes every day in the UK and we just shrug and accept it. It’s only because the media are shoving Islamist terrorism down our throats constantly that it starts to seem to so important.

If you teach lies and nonsense to the young and naive, the outcome is not going to be well rounded individuals. Proof of this across the last 17 pages 😥

Education is always key to a better future:
Re-topic in this thread, could we make sure that debunked religions are clearly taught as nonsense in ‘all’ schools?

My guess is he’ll probably just ignore this as well.

You win he did indeed ignore christians ignoring the law citing a higher authority [ the bible actually the OT as well FWIW] and just carried on regardless.

Some men you just cannot teach.

Why are you continually ignorant/dismissive of this?

His views are neither formed by nor bound by facts. His views just are.

See how this affects people:

Local Bomb scare[/url]

See how this affects people:

What do you mean by that exactly?

Don’t start reading too much into it Grum.

I’m referring to the fact that a town just went in lockdown over a briefcase, and might not have done two weeks ago. Nothing more, nothing less.

I’m right ,no i’m right ,you listen to me, no you listen to me.

I wasn’t, was just genuinely wondering what you were trying to suggest/imply (if anything).

If you hold those kind of extremist views and want to kill people then you can join the army. I would imagine there are many serving soldiers who are also supporters of Britain First.

Copa, from this and previous posts, it’s pretty obvious you don’t like he British military much. Other posters get flamed for posts like yours that start “I would imagine” without evidence, that just reads like giving prejudices an airing as many others on this thread have done. I’m in the military and I’ve done tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you really not differentiate between me and a member of ISIS?

just reads like giving prejudices an airing as many others on this thread have done.

I’ve definitely seen a lot of stuff that would suggest a fairly large proportion of Britain First supporters are either current or ex military or families/friends etc. I don’t have any ‘evidence’ as such. Do you think that’s incorrect then?

I missed that post and you are correct to challenge a view put as bluntly as that
However there is a skewing within in it just like social workers are more likely to be bleeding heart hand wringers

IMHO its to nationalistic ,patriotic and “traditional values” [RW/conservative [ not politically] ]rather than racist and odious

Do you really not differentiate between me and a member of ISIS?

if you were to imagine a different perspective, perhaps from someone who lives in those countries, you could be seen as someone who is part of an invading military force which uses violence against people who happen to have a differing ideology, and who wants to impose their will over others, through the use of said violence, fear and intimidation. Or, as some might put it, a ‘terrorist’. An individual who has been trained to be part of a killing machine, who will blindly obey orders, even if those orders may be considered ‘morally wrong’ by some people.

And some of those people in those countries might not like what you do, and what you appear to represent. And possibly even chose to react against you using violence themselves.

Perspective is of course dependent on where you stand.

My FB is prob 50/50 military (or ex) and never served. Just looked and 2 of my “friends” like Britain first, both civilian. Looking at the the spoof (anti BF) “britain furst” page; 2 like this, one serving, one ex (no civilians).
Only one example but goes against Grums guess.

We reflect the society we serve. Lots of British people are conservative white men not overburdened with brains. Lots of (ex) military are too. Britain First are well known for using innocuous looking Facebook clickbait to gather likes, “I’d imagine” the bulk of them wouldn’t like what they saw if they looked into the group a bit more. So yes, I’d have thought (ex) mil are over represented in Britain First, although it’s worth noting that public support for extreme politics of any flavour is a disciplinary offence. But a blanket statement like that one is just as offensive as suggesting all Muslims are terrorists, it’s still tarring a lot of folk with a big brush.

bartyp – Member
Shall we suspect, fear, hate and demonise all men?

I think you are over reacting … calm down dear.

Are you searching for a perfect solution to world problems?

What do you have to offer that have not been exhausted?

bartyp – Member
Perspective is of course dependent on where you stand.

Are you attempting to deconstruct their ideology? 😯

See my Rule 1.

An individual who has been trained to be part of a killing machine, who will blindly obey orders, even if those orders may be considered ‘morally wrong’ by some people.

Not correct. We don’t blindly obey orders, we are trained in the law of armed conflict and rules of engagement and therefore challenge illegal orders. There’s a lot of imagination in your statement.

if you were to imagine a different perspective, perhaps from someone who lives in those countries, you could be seen as someone who is part of an invading military force which uses violence against people who happen to have a differing ideology, and who wants to impose their will over others, through the use of said violence, fear and intimidation.

I’ve heard first hand the perspective of a few of them who were quite grateful for our presence due to their long experience at the hands of people like those you describe. Shades of grey.

Loads of fake accounts on FB trolling in this style. I wouldn’t be surprised if you are all talking to Russians in a call centre or bored unemployed Britain first types.

I posted the Austrain piece for the line at quoted, which is that legislation explicitly reminded Muslims that the countries laws take precedence

This is still a lie. The law does not say that, and you did not post it for that reason.

http://www.parlament.gv.at/PAKT/VHG/XXV/I/I_00469/fname_384213.pdf

My FB is prob 50/50 military (or ex) and never served. Just looked and 2 of my “friends” like Britain first, both civilian. Looking at the the spoof (anti BF) “britain furst” page; 2 like this, one serving, one ex (no civilians).
Only one example but goes against Grums guess.

Very few of my (ex) forces FB friends like Britain First too. Quite a few spend their time correcting the BF untrue statements though. I must be wrong too as Grum says it is so and he never speaks bollocks 🙄

Grum’s generally pretty balanced IMHO. We all do a bit of stereotyping!
I’d bet you’ll find a lot more construction types on BF than soldiers. Of my friends, they are the ones most anti-immigration.

I must be wrong too as Grum says it is so and he never speaks bollocks

I never claimed it as fact I just said that was my impression. I’m quite happy to be proved wrong. I think my impression is partly based on the fact that Britain First adopt quasi-military uniforms and use support for British troops (in a horrible deceptive way) to garner money and support for their cause so there’s a lot of confusion/crossover there.

Grum’s generally pretty balanced IMHO. We all do a bit of stereotyping!

**** you. 🙂

We all do a bit of stereotyping!

Yes but southerners are softy shandy drinking mountainless wet drips though so its not really a stereotype its true

To me the army is like the police its going to get slightly more right wing/pro the state/salute the flag/sign the national anthem/ tradition/respect than say social work is but i am not really sure this will equate into more racist individuals.

I also think STW is very good in this respect as all sides and all views dont tolerate racism . Perhaps its just a battele that PC has won and they still exist but they know they cannot say it but no one on here will get away with racism

No I get it Grum, it’s all the puffed out chest “arr country” stuff. Most military types these days have been around a bit and are more worldly wise than most.
Seeing people being abused and living in abject squalor makes you think a bit.

my impression is partly based on the fact that Britain First adopt quasi-military uniforms and use support for British troops (in a horrible deceptive way) to garner money and support for their cause

Pretty much a one-way street though. Serving and ex military mostly regard BF as pathetic mouth-breathing walts and posts on ARRSE[/url] suggesting support or sympathy for BF tend to get responses robust enough to earn you an instant ban on STW.

I’ve got a couple of ex army mates who post Britain First stuff all the time. But it’s nothing to do with the army, they’re both from the islands and a bit inbred. There’s, what, 90000 regulars and 50000 reserves so no wonder some soldiers past or serving will be into this sort of thing, it’s just numbers. I only know one scuba diving teacher and he posts Britain First pish on facebook, so unless anyone can correct me real fast I’m going to assume all diving instructors are racists.

Do you really not differentiate between me and a member of ISIS?

You are both people who are prepared to kill and be killed in support of a set of beliefs.

Whether it’s individuals cutting heads off or blowing people up with drones, I don’t see a great deal of difference.

Whether it’s done for religious beliefs or for Queen and country, I think the mindset is similar.

But the UK media presents one group as heroic, noble and brave and the other lot as cowardly and deranged, as sub-human savages.

As you suggest, the world is not like that. It’s annoyingly grey and fuzzy.

Here you go rusty;
http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/britain-first-and-britain-first-armed-forces-groups.214420/

ARRSE and the mil in general don’t like BF at all.
Some of these guys are quite eloquent. So much for stereotyping 😀

It’s all part of the masterplan for a better Britain which requires an apocalyptic encounter between tattooed fascist knuckle-draggers, extreme ethnic wall-bangers and ultra-liberal, politically correct, EU-loving f@ckwits, whereby they all kill each other, preferably in one of those parts of the UK long overdue for demolition, and leave the rest of us to build a better society with a deeper gene pool.

But the UK media presents one group as heroic, noble and brave and the other lot as cowardly and deranged, as sub-human savages.

I suppose they might think a soldier facing people with guns and IED’s etc is more brave than shooting and blowing up people in nightclubs, bars and street corners, going in to schools shooting kids or kidnapping a whole school of girls. The media is so one sided! 🙄

I’m right ,no i’m right ,you listen to me, no you listen to me.

So, who is right?

The opposite to who’s left?

So, who is right?

Mrs Pondo, always.

Get her on here to finish this off then. 😯

Here you go rusty;
http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/britain-first-and-britain-first-armed-forces-groups.214420/

A classic ARRSE thread that manages to stray so far off-topic that it covers the declension of latin verbs and the continued desirability of Jenny Agutter. But mainly discusses how to get offensive BF posts removed from Facebook.

Copa so you reckon the british armed forces are of the same mindset as these chaps.

Killing, raping because you were of a different religion or sexual preference.

use support for British troops (in a horrible deceptive way)

It was Tony Blair who did that in Gulf war 2. And both press and BBC/Sky followed. It was dreadful propaganda. Who wouldn’t support the people who serve to guarantee their freedom? However, many opposed what the troops were sent to do.

Edit: I’ve never served but have worked for the NAAFI and was in the French parachute regiment triathlon club for a few years. Whilst the views after a few beers were often right of centre they were rarely if ever extreme right.

Whether it’s individuals cutting heads off or blowing people up with drones, I don’t see a great deal of difference.

Accidents notwithstanding, an important difference is that the people who get blown up by drones deserve it because they’re engaged in the former.

Accidents notwithstanding, an important difference is that the people who get blown up by drones deserve it because they’re engaged in the former.

Including their families/friends/children/neighbours?

Including their families/friends/children/neighbours?

Whose presence would preclude the attack based on my most recent operational experience.