Sexism on STW (a goodbye and some thanks :) )

The kicking in of back doors is USUALLY meant to be a ridiculous statement. Like weeing in shoes or owning with bombers. People aren’t actually suggesting physical violence with suspension forks. I think people saying this are trying to be funny but mis-reading the situation.

However there is still some unpleasant misogyny that crops up mostly when someone mentions some woman or other. I do wonder what the actual sentiment is behind these comments though, I have a feeling that branding people ‘sexist’ is a bit simplistic.

Trouble with you Tj is that you let yourself down mate.
you have all manner of great stuff to say but you will go and get all wrapped up in utter toss like this.

Kenny Snr – very much arguing with the logic vacuum that is TJ

Anyway, bed…night!

One of the most ridiculous things ever posted on here. so to complain about sexists posts creates the problem

Oh do shut up you whining, insufferable prig. Complaining did not create the problem, as you can clearly read, the idea posited was that it created a false impression that the problem was far wider than it is.

Now, go and do something more productive. Like going to bed and kicking………………

Molgrips – like with many “isms! there is two aspects – the deliberate and the inadvertent. Its mainly the inadvertent sexism we get on here but despite no offence being intended and in some cases people being unable to understand why it is offensive it remains offensive

Jeremy, you know exactly what was meant
you are, as usual, just offering a counter
as is your bent

There’d be no women here with it just full of geeky technical bike talk if we can’t talk about anything else.
Ooh, was that sexist?

Yes it was, and no, putting in an emoticon doesn’t make it ok. Nor does the fact that this type of comment has appeared regularly through this and other threads make it ok.

I don’t accept the premise that complaining about the sexist posts makes the issue seem worse. it only does that if you didn’t realise how much sexismthere was. so what it actually does is shows people the extent of the problem – it does not make it appear worse than it is. it makes it look worse than they thought it was by bringing it to their attention.

Anyway the arbiters are the nods who routinely delete posts and threads for being sexist.

In these times of chaos I wonder on the logic: what would SimonfBarnes do? probably lead a whole bunch of mixed bag of people, different ages, sex, etc up some mountains. mixed bag being the word ladies and gents. Go all over the place on bikes and take pics, but some of those pics may include womens arses and not mens arses. I don’t have a problem with that. I hate to say this.. but bring back the rationality of SFB!!

take pictures of it’s arse.

brakes – Member

there are two kinds of poster on here which cause situations like this:
1_ those who make flippant comments and crass remarks designed to cause minor as much offence possible without getting banned.
2_ those who rise to those comments, feign indignation and react with relentless repetetive hand wringing, claiming their position as the last bastion of ethics.
The rest of us.

I really enjoy having a pop at Teej when he’s wrong and just being dogmatic.
On this occasion though, he’s right.

Because of the throwbacks in category 1, we’ve lost two of the most pleasant contributors to the forum.

Rusty – I think a lot of it is inadvertent as well as those who are deliberate – people who do not realise the sexist nature of their comments but thanks for that.

I’d have a pop at Tjay if I was solid in knew-what-I-was-talking-about. He’s pretty good though and I’m better at Xbox. rusty spanner – out of context!

Its mainly the inadvertent sexism we get on here

Yes.. although the nature of “inadvertent sexism” is rather subtle I think. It could be simply habit or conditioning, simply repeating what is commonly heard – aka the ‘everyone else does it’ defence. Is it actually sexism, or just carelessly offensive nonsense talk?

In the 60s and 70s people would use racial terminology unacceptable today, but without actually really disliking people of any particular race.

For example, CaptainFlasheart’s name is from a ridiculously sexist character in a sitcom and yet he is condemning sexism on the forum. I can perfectly well imagine the character using the controversial phrase but it seems understood that it’s a caricature and should not cause offence.

EDIT

How about he reaction when one of the women asked about a pint in cardif teh other week

That thread was worse than ones containing the controversial phrase.

How about he reaction when one of the women asked about a pint in cardif teh other week

I read that thread and felt uncomfortable. Sue was quite obviously just looking for someone to have a pint with whilst travelling.

The point was made, perhaps in a slightly smirking way, that some of our better halves might not be terribly comfortable with us popping down the local to meet a lady from a forum.

Throughout, I could see the growing discomfort of a human being looking for some like minded company and slowly beginning to be made to feel like a home-wrecker. I can understand whe Sue might have felt marginalised or pushed away, due purely to the fact that she’s not a bloke.

That all said, I could see both sides. I hope those who have left come back. It’s only the internet, but it’s my little internet 🙂

Yes.. although the nature of “inadvertent sexism” is rather subtle I think. It could be simply habit or conditioning, simply repeating what is commonly heard – aka the ‘everyone else does it’ defence. Is it actually sexism, or just carelessly offensive nonsense talk?

In my opinion it is still sexism, and I hope that it becomes as unacceptable as casual racism has.

In some ways this can be worse due to its pervasiveness and also if a women mentions that she finds it sexist she can then be portrayed as humourless, when the slow, relentless grinding down of this type of sexism is far from funny.

rusty spanner – out of context!

Sorry Kev, wasn’t having a pop, I just found yours and nonks posts really funny.

I should have put them in a separate post to avoid confusion.

In fact, I think I will:

Kevevs – Member

what would SimonfBarnes do?
Posted 7 minutes ago # Report-Post
nonk – Member

take pictures of it’s arse.

😀

take pictures of it’s arse.

its, not it’s.

In my opinion it is still sexism

So what is sexism then?

user removed, you are bang on. I am reporting you to the mods for something or other maybe a nice lookin butterfly. Good man.

molgrips – Member
So what is sexism then?

Haven’t read the whole thread, so I don’t know if somebody’s made this point already, sorry. But from what I’ve skimmed, some people seem to be asking how people cope with real life if they can’t cope with it on here. The thing is, my experience of real life doesn’t involve the sort of casual sexism I see on here. Clearly some posters on here have different experiences to me.

I agree aracer- it’s more about this place. this little bubble on here that we stwers live in. and how much it would be brilliant if it included more women, or not even women, just something else rather than the usual middle class crap.aliens from space……

I struggled through the first 5 pages and thought I struggle with long sentences

I find it sad and fairly incomprehensible that intelligent women find this place offensive. IMO, given the demographic of STW, it quite remarkable how little offensive (a very subjective personal opinion, of course) posting there actually is and women are generally given lots of encouragement and treated equally. There are the odd exceptions of course but is it really that difficult to ignore, or if really offensive, report, the juvenile and emotionally retarded tiny minority?

For those who don’t come across so-called casual sexism ‘in real life’ and think STW is rife with it, I seriously wonder which planet you live on, or if you ever leave the comfort of your keyboard.

Jebus there must be a lot of mountain bikes gathering dust somewhere.

I do come across casual sexism in real life, as well as on here. Mostly I try and ignore it, sometimes I point it out when I become fed up of it.

The thing is that this is a thread about sexism (largely sexism against women), mainly being discussed by men, some of whom seem to need enlightening as to what the female perspective on the matter is.

Also just because some types of sexism can be viewed as casual doesn’t mean to say that it should be acceptable.

I thought sexism had come full circle and was acceptable again?

Like weeing in shoes or owning with bombers. People aren’t actually suggesting physical violence with suspension forks.

Funnily enough, the OP who spawned “owning with bombers” did just that to an intruder he found trying to steal his bikes!

The shoe-weeing predates my seven years here though….

I’ve just come back to this (and have not read the intervening pages) but I’d like to say. . . I hear lots of sexist remarks because I’ve always done ‘man’ things; I love cars, engines, trains; I’ve ridden mountain bikes since 1984 when they first appeared in this country (Geoff Apps’ and David W-S’s bikes apart), I tow a twin-axle caravan myself. I invariably get comments on my activities which, if I were a man, would not be made. But, I realise that I am a bit unusual and treat the remarks (however tiresome I find them) as the response of someone who is surprised and has encountered something out of the ordinary.- even though the attitude does really annoy me. Thing is, if one does get annoyed, as Sue says on P1, then one gets the ‘Oh, must be the time of the month’ remark which IS deeply offensive. The remark which put me off being here is the back doors remark. Sorry, but it isn’t funny, flippant, lighthearted, a parody, analogy or a joke. It is a reference to unconsensual sex – ie rape, and rape simply ain’t funny (from either a male or female perspective). We all make jokes at the expense of others, that’s human nature which are often funny or make a valid point, or are even designed to show affection or acceptance, or point up a difference, the back doors remark is not in that category.

Some people need to be more understanding. Some people need to be less sensitive,and some should not try to excuse behaviour with the fact that it happens in “real life”.
This thread is sad on many levels.

I’ve just come back to this (and have not read the intervening pages) but I’d like to say. . . I hear lots of sexist remarks because I’ve always done ‘man’ things; I love cars, engines, trains; I’ve ridden mountain bikes since 1984 when they first appeared in this country (Geoff Apps’ and David W-R’s bikes apart), I tow a twin-axle caravan myself. I invariably get comments on my activities which, if I were a man, would not be made. But, I realise that I am a bit unusual and treat the remarks (however tiresome I find them) as the response of someone who is surprised and has encountered something out of the ordinary.- even though the attitude does really annoy me. Thing is, if one does get annoyed, as Sue says on P1, then one gets the ‘Oh, must be the time of the month’ remark which IS deeply offensive. The remark which put me off being here is the back doors remark. Sorry, but it isn’t funny, flippant, lighthearted, a parody, analogy or a joke. It is a reference to unconsensual sex – ie rape, and rape simply ain’t funny (from either a male or female perspective). We all make jokes at the expense of others, that’s human nature which are often funny or make a valid point, or are even designed to show affection or acceptance, or point up a difference, the back doors remark is not in that category.

Whether you are a man, woman or vegetable, I couldn’t care….but for the love of god, stick some paragraphs in there! 😉

At my workplace, 90% of the time someone uses the phrase ‘Time of the month again’ or similar, it’s referring to one of the blokes having a strop about something, not one of the lasses. So is it still sexist? Or, despite it’s origins, does it just now mean ‘having a totally OTT and unnecessary strop’ regardless of gender?

I’d never heard the phrase go out for a bike ride until that football bloke was reprimanded for saying it on tv, it’s a pretty naff term anyway tbh.

Out of curiosity, given all the outcry on here do people watch celeb juice and laugh, or write to Mary Whitehouse each week?

In these times of chaos I wonder on the logic: what would SimonfBarnes do?

<chokes on cornflakes>

Take pictures of lady riders bottoms, post them on the internet and label them “totty” is exactly what he does 🙂

Apologies for giving you more to read, but http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/laurie-penny-a-womans-opinion-is-the-miniskirt-of-the-internet-6256946.html

‘Time of the month again’

I know someone who once a month gets really angry, emotional and cries alot. I really really feel sorry for her. **** awful.

Sorry, but it isn’t funny, flippant, lighthearted, a parody, analogy or a joke. It is a reference to unconsensual sex – ie rape, and rape simply ain’t funny (from either a male or female perspective).

Not sure if I’ve ever used that phrase on here or not (I hope not given the upset it has clearly caused) but I’ve certainly read it, laughed and never ever considered it to be about rape.

Now that people are highlighting it, I can understand how they might interpret it as such. I don’t think it’s the intended meaning, but I’m happy to never use it and start pulling up people that do if it avoids upset and lets us hang on to our more interesting posters.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/helen-lewis-hasteley/2011/11/comments-rape-abuse-women]

Relevant to this thread – women on the internet.

If nothing this thread may make a few people on here think about what they type.

Now that people are highlighting it, I can understand how they might interpret it as such. I don’t think it’s the intended meaning, but I’m happy to never use it and start pulling up people that do if it avoids upset and lets us hang on to our more interesting posters.

probably the best post and response here yet.

Those who think that some posters here should toughen up and get less sensitive and “it’s only the internet” and “welcome to the real world” should think about how the perennial justification of those challenged for saying “****” or the N word or other racial epiphets is that they (those who say them) aren’t racist, they don’t mean anything nasty by it, all their friends say the same things and they are allowed free speech.

In this case a fair number of female posters find some of the language and attitudes displayed here offensive. I think these are also boring cliches which are an alternative to saying anything interesting or original. Simple politeness and courtesy to others means we should listen and learn.

Elfinsafety – Member
I’m not going anywhere and I hope some people are disappointed

i’m trying to look surprised, i really am. i suspect Brant will be disappointed you’re still here after your post on the Ray Eden thread