selling a house with illegal septic tank?

Earlier in the year my mum and uncle put up their old family home up for sale which they inherited last year from their mother. It is out in the sticks and has a septic tank, the runoff goes in to a nearby ditch, itself very near to a river. As I understand it this set up was made illegal as of 1st Jan 2020 and needs to be replaced with a proper treatment plant. also illegal to sell house with this type of system. Mum is fully aware of this and so is uncle but he is burying his head in the sand, hoping to sell asap with no issues.

The properties over the road are also on septic systems and their runoff pipe goes under the road, through our garden and joins in to the ditch with ours. These properties were all part of the same farm until 60 years ago when they started to be sold off.

When the papers went through to the solicitor the part about the septic tank was answered but in a waffly sort of way, not actually answering the question just trying to dodge it. The purchaser has had a survey carried out but as far I know didn’t look in to the system or question about it. feedback from the purchaser is that she is happy with the result of the survey.

If the conveyancing solicitor does not pick up on this issue and the sale goes through what would be the likely outcome when it is found out?

I’ve no expertise in this area but given you’re fairly sure on this point:

“also illegal to sell house with this type of system”

It’s probably best to fess up now, what’s the damage going to be now Vs being found out later. I’ve no idea how much sway ignorance would have in such a case – there’s a certain amount of caveat emptor in a house sale but I don’t think that really applies if a question is not answered truthfully.

I assume this is why you believe the other party aren’t aware of it, since if they were then they would have called you on it due to the illegality.

What are the rules if I am buying or selling a property with a septic tank?It is very important to know exactly what type of drainage system exists at a property, and what condition it is in, prior to any purchase. The guidance on the General Binding Rules states:`If you are buying or selling a property with a septic tank that discharges directly to a watercourse, you should agree with the buyer or seller who will be responsible for the replacement or upgrade of the existing treatment system. You should agree this as a condition of sale.’

If they don’t answer the questionnaire truthfully they surely risk invalidating any legal cover they may have.

Yup, if they have been asked the question directly they need to answer it fully.

Having said that, if I were the buyer, I would expect my conveyancer to not accept waffly non-answers, or at least make further enquiries.

They might get away with the initial sale but I would expect it will catch up with them in the not too distant future and for them to get reamed out for it.

Well this is a bit of a mess.

Couple of things to note:
– the significance of 1 Jan 2020 is that was the date this should have been fixed by. The point about selling the house applied prior to that, to stop people selling shortly before the deadline and just making it the buyer’s problem. So they are already in breach;
– the information required to be provided on a sale is prescribed by the new rules, which are very specific. The waffly answer approach will be no defence if the EA find out and in fact could make the situation worse if it looks like it was done deliberately to confuse the situation in full knowledge of the fact the tank was non—compliant with the Regs.

It’s shocking (and negligent) that a solicitor operating in the rural conveyancing market isn’t aware of this.

Your folks are taking a risk that no-one will ever find out. I suspect the next time a house in the vicinity is sold it will come to light, and then various people will start asking questions for sure.

Sorry, to answer your question, EA Enforcement – civil penalties but they can levy a fine of up to £100k against the seller who is in breach of the regs in two different ways.

They will also require the system to be replaced. The buyer would have to pay for this but would have a claim against the seller (and probably one against their solicitor for negligence as a back up).

It is always possible the buyer is aware but is keeping quiet as they will then come back and expect seller to pay. It may also be sold but then you still have years of worry about it

Have to be open with the buyers as above as to who will pay.

This isn’t just being a bit vague on a sellers declaration and hoping the buyers don’t freak when they discover the nutter next door who throws stuff over the fence, this is actually illegal and as above, the EA will rightly pursue it.

Have the other houses all sorted their systems?

Care home we worked at about 12 years ago septic tank discharged to soakaway and then into a local stream eventually, EA traced it back, and made Care home install new septic tank bigger then before, new electrics and also a bigger soakaway, cost them a lot of money.

I know the obvious answer is that they need advice from someone who can assess their current situation and the location and advise on permitting route, options and costs etc (location is important as it rules some options out). It sounds like they don’t want to engage with this though.

The properties over the road are also on septic systems and their runoff pipe goes under the road, through our garden and joins in to the ditch with ours. These properties were all part of the same farm until 60 years ago when they started to be sold off.

If I was getting professional advice, one of my first questions would be whether the ‘First Time Sewerage Scheme’ would apply to the properties as a group, to see if mains sewerage can be provided at no cost to them.

^ this.
It has to be the best solution for all parties if it is viable.

Unless the system is actually polluting (which if it’s working fine it shouldn’t be) then it’ll be unlikely the EA will find out. Too few staff trying to do more and more work with budgets being cut all the time.
Doesn’t make it right though.

I have passed on the idea of the First Time Sewerage Scheme, still seams to fall on deaf ears though

Thread resurrection time

We’re looking at a property at the moment with a tank, and having seen this thread from last week I’m now slightly concerned. I’ve asked for more info and the vendors have said it’s a three-chamber tank, serves three properties, and ‘drains into a field’, not into a ditch or watercourse. Now, from my reading of the regs etc above then that is probably okay (although I’m going to try and get more detailed info into exactly how/where it drains).

However, they also said that as it was built prior to 1983, it’s exempt from the current regs. Now, I think that’s not the case, am I right?

IHN if I was buying I would certainly be asking the environment agency not the vendor, I doubt that the age of the property would have any bearing over the legalities of the septic system

Pre-1983 means the tank itself doesn’t necessarily need to be replaced, but its method of discharge is relevant and could still be an issue if it doesn’t meet standards. ‘Drains into a field’ might well be OK, but I’d want a bit more information.

Pre-1983 means the tank itself doesn’t necessarily need to be replaced, but its method of discharge is relevant and could still be an issue if it doesn’t meet standards. ‘Drains into a field’ might well be OK, but I’d want a bit more information.

This is exactly where I’ve got to with my Googling

Again interested in this…

How does retrospective building control apply, I can understand if any works done it needs to meet current requirements

We have a waste treatment plant. As I understand it if the output is going into a water course then you need a waste treatment plant not a septic tank. If you have a septic tank (as in the case of the OP) you can use a soakaway system as long as its not then going directly into the water course. Should cost between 1 or 2K to do.

Now, I think that’s not the case, am I right?

I would have thought that is correct UNTIL it needs replacing and then it needs to be up to current regs.

We put a new septic tank in at our place about 15 years ago – tank in the paddock which drains into a large (20m x 10m) soakaway.
If it needed replacing again i don’t think we’d need to put a treatment plant in as there’s no watercourse nearby.

AFAIA you only need the plant if it drains I to a watercourse

Correct that pre-1983 tanks don’t have to be replaced but generally if the EA/NRW/SEPA comes to inspect it and it’s causing pollution (which ancient tanks like that often are) then they can still take enforcement action to get you to sort it out, generally by replacing it. Worth remembering that when multiple houses share a treatment system it’s always a nightmare coming to an agreement about replacing and sharing costs.

It’s correct that septic tanks only need to be replaced if they drain into a watercourse, the soakaway aims to carry out biological treatment to reduce phosphate, ammonia etc so if the effluent goes straight in to a river then it will be of a much worse quality. A sewage treatment plant does all of this in one.

Although it is true that houses shouldn’t be sold with a septic tank that drains to a ditch, no body has been given the authority to enforce the rule, so it does not get enforced (clever legislating right!). I still wouldn’t risk not making clear what kind of system is in place before selling though, the buyer who finds out they need to spend a couple of grand to sort it out may well try and get some money back off the seller.

Well, in our case, I spoke to the vendor yesterday who confirmed that the tank itself is under next door’s front yard/garden (it’s shared by three properties that used to be one big farmhouse) and the outflow goes under the road in front and drains into the field on the other side.

There is a stream that goes past the house, so I was a bit worried it might be going into that on the other side of the road, but I also checked the DEFRA MagicMap (https://magic.defra.gov.uk/MagicMap.aspx) and the stream goes into a culvert and then along under the road and reappears about 60m further down the road, into a different field. So, I think we’re okay.

Anyway, we satisfied ourselves enough to make an offer, which they accepted, so we’ll get a proper survey done as well.