Self fit log burner, Insurance Valid?

A friend Thought that my home insurance my be invalid if I self fit a log burner, so no HETAS certificate.

True?

I will go via building regs and have them visit and sign off, and have done my homework about ventilation, air gaps etc etc

Err, give you insurer a call?

Cheers,
Jamie

I though a HETAS installation just exempted you from building control sign-off.

thanks jamiea 🙄

yeah Jambo that was my understanding too

After spending 14 months sorting out a building insurance claim (someone damaged my house) where they admitted liability with a month and then spent 13 months trying to wiggle out of it. I would check with your insurance company as if you have any issues and there is any doubt they will try and avoid paying out.

Also if you don’t have a HETAS certificate doesn’t that make selling the house grief if the solicitors spot that you are missing it.

My insurers (underwitten by Lloyds) wanted to see the HETAS certificate – I am unsure if it was a requirement, but I mentioned to my broker we were having one fitted…. he suggested checking with them…. they were pretty clued up what the regs were and said if I sent them a copy of the HETAS documentation then no probs. Didn’t have the conversation as to what they would want to see without HETAS, so can’t really speculate further as to whether regs sign off would be enough.

AFAIK HETAS only applies to England & Wales

So what’s the deal in Scotland? Our stove was put in by a builder who’s done loads before and is the (independent) suppliers recommendation. Don’t have any paperwork though!

Can you get it checked retrospectively and get the cert?

You’ll be speaking to the insurers anyway, as putting a logburner in is a material fact. Possible answers include:

a) “we don’t insure houses with woodburners.” They might not, you might have to go elsewhere. One of those things.

b) “We can, but we need a HETAS cert. No cert, no dice.” this might be laziness, you might get somewhere by proving you’re conforming to best practice and taking all steps required by HETAS certification.

c) “Shouldn’t be a problem, tell us your plans and we’ll see.” In which case you’ll be doing the explaining as above.

d) “don’t GAF – crack on” not so likely!

You won’t know unless you ask. I certainly wouldn’t go too far without speaking to them. Be wary of the lazy first answer, it might not be the right one. You could have a look on some comparison sites, see if there are any supplementary questions if you tick the woodburner box.

It might be an issue for other reasons (selling the house, as above) I have no clue.

If, after all that, you really need the cert, and you still want to do the work yourself, you could ask a friendly contractor how much of the work he needs to do give you the cert. – ie can you do most of it and he just connects up the flue, or just inspect at intervals and on completion and tick it off?

Good luck!

Err, give you insurer a call?

+1

Legally, the installation of a new solid fuel or gas appliance comes under the Building Regulations in England and Wales. Sorry but I don’t know about Scotland. So having the installation inspected and signed off by your local Building Control is fine.

We’ve never seen anything in insurance policy small print related to losses from a fire/stove/gas installation (regardless of whether it was approved by the Council or a HETAS or gas safe engineer) but maybe we haven’t looked hard enough!

And the bit of paper from the Council’s Building Control confirming the installation is to Regs will cover any future house sale enquiries.

So does this apply to open fires also (as they are solid fuel)? You would have thought that they are more dangerous than a stove as you’re putting more heat into the chimney.

We’ve replaced two open fires with stoves in the last 3 years. One I did myself and I’m happy without the hetas cert but the other one uses an internal chimney so we had it fitted and has a cert.

And just what applies to houses where they have been fitted for donkeys years? Before this new fangled b****cks came about?

And just what applies to houses where they have been fitted for donkeys years? Before this new fangled b****cks came about?

If you can prove that it was installed pre-regs then you should be OK, if you can’t then you need to get the certificate. Bearing in mind, the burden of proof is on you.

Plus you need to check your insurance docs as it will also more than likely mention that the chimney needs to be swept and inspected every 6 months (which is done by the chimney sweep) or else your insurance is invalid. I think mine costs around ~£20 to be inspected and swept every 6 months, so is a minor cost compared to not having any building insurance, which is in breach of my mortgage conditions.

Personally, I installed the flue liner, installed the blanking plate and filled the chimney with vermiculite and then had to pay someone £200 to lift the thing in, fit 3 sections of pipe and spray it to match stove colour, which took them 20 minutes and then they sat in the van for 2 hours smoking, a bit gutting but it does mean that I *know* I have insurance.

Carbon monoxide poisoning is more a problem with a badly fitted stove!

To successfully avoid paying out the insurer would have to prove that the fire was caused by the non compliant installation rather than the fact you don’t have the paperwork (which would have been burnt in the fire anyhow)…..

Have never been asked about log burner when doing insurance renewals. However, ours was in a new build and fitted by the builder and all ‘ok’. However after a while I noticed scorch marks where the flue was fitted. There was a void above packed out with flammable material. Came close to catching light!
Hetas man checked and sorted it all, including making sure there was a large enough non flammable area in front of the fire.

I would suggest getting it checked out even if just for peace of mind.

To successfully avoid paying out the insurer would have to prove that the fire was caused by the non compliant installation rather than the fact you don’t have the paperwork (which would have been burnt in the fire anyhow)…..

Just to clarify, how are qualified to make that statement?

Just asking as I have spent 14 months battling with insurers who admitted liability but disagreed with two independent expert reports, and I only got a resolution as my partner is a insurance lawyer.

So I guess it worth clarifying, that this isn’t how you believe the system works, compared to how it does actually work. As what you are saying doesn’t match up with my experiences or my partner who has only be working in insurance for a little over a decade.

Cheers all, it’s a pretty simple install so I might get in touch with a friend of a friend and try to just get him in for a day to do the connecting up of it all and sort the HETAS Cert’. Thinking about it’ll save on the building regs costs, so not actually that much more hopefully

richc – that’s sort of right. You probably know a lot of this but: Insurers aren’t allowed to avoid paying a claim on a personal insurance policy on the basis of a warranty which has nothing to do with the cause of the loss.

If your policy said you must have fitted, and use window locks and someone burglarizes your house by jimmying open a window which didn’t have a window lock fitted, they can avoid the claim and possibly void the policy.

If you don’t have window locks fitted, and someone smashes your front door down and nicks your telly, the absence of window locks made no odds whatsoever, so all other things being equal, they’d pay for the door and telly.

However, I think in the case you quoted, the insurer would be quite entitled to say if you have a fire that seems to be caused by heat from the wood burner, and the paperwork wasn’t in order according to the policy terms, that would be a breach allowing them to avoid the claim.

It would probably then fall to the claimant to prove that a HETAS cert would make no odds, and the fire would have happened however well the wood burner and chimney were installed. Or perhaps more easily, that plenty of fires happen on houses with HETAS certified woodburners, and that the standards required by the certification were not materially better than the standards to which yours was installed.

nedrapier, ACII (not a legal background, largely educated guessing/reasoning)