Scottish independence – hmm, a thought

Sadmadalan;balance to that would be Alex being smart enough to allow the Condems to continue to recruit votes for his party just by going about their daily business.

Cant be arsed arguing any more with you, but one thing does suprise me. You are on record as having an axe to grind about us, why do you care so much if we leave?

I find it a bit jack if I’m honest. It’s all a bit ” because we have oil, we can do better alone and screw the English, welsh and N Irish”. I honestly don’t think that the scots would even be considering it if it weren’t for the oil, but that’s just an opinion. The welsh certainly aren’t, just think if England wanted its independence. It would leave a right old mess
Also, this referendum on independence is a wet blanket. If the SNP want a referendum on independence FFS have one. Don’t be messing about with “a bit more devolution”. I don’t blame dave for calling them on that. Stop messing around; in or out.

Oh and where’s the record of me having an axe to grind? My grandmother was Scottish.

At this point you have to wonder if the SNP actually want out, or are they so terrified that the people of Scotland might say no and as such the whole reason that the SNP exists will disappear. Uncle Alex may be a smart political operator (probably the best in the UK) but he may have just been rattled.

Re-balance – sadmadalam, exactly. And he is becoming more and more slippery. Like a bar of soap in the Achies showers!! Cue, even more smiling at the camera, even slower speech to disguise the rattle. The Scots are too canny to fall for such bluster fortunately.

John Lloyd in today’s FT:

..the SNP has insisted that only the Scottish people have the right to decide on the manner of the vote which will determine whether or not to break this union – an even larger and more inflammatory affront to what has been a common endeavor for centuries. Thus the nearly 60m born and living now as citizens of the UK could be shorn of that right by the votes of some 5m of their co-nationals, with the time, the wording and the choice of options wholly determined by the nationalist government in Edinburgh.

The UK government is right to insist that it is sovereign in this matter. Right, not just because it is the constitutional position, but right too because Westminster is sovereign through the long-given will of the British that it be the supreme law giver – and that, though its power is now substantially devolved, must be retained. Serious nationalism requires a cause – usually, some large experience of suppression and ill-treatment. Lacking these, Scottish nationalism scrabbles for inspiration from ancient, half-remembered passages of arms, together with cross-border goads amplified by media and propelled on the hot air of ersatz outrage.

If I was the opposition parties in Scotland, I might start asking the questions of why the SNP was not keen to have a legally binding referendum. The SNP manifesto only says that are referendum will happen, Uncle Alex has chosen when in the term of the parliament. If he is confident that the people of Scotland will chose Independence (for better or worse) then go to the people early. Otherwise it will just appear that he is on the run.

The opposition had the chance for a vote in the last Scottish Parliament. They voted against it. Since the only reason there is going to be a vote is because the SNP won an outright majority then why shouldn’t the SNP set the date as well?

The more that a Tory PM interferes in Scotland the more chance of a yes vote as there is a large section of the population that will vote against anything perceived as a Tory position. Personally I thought Thatcher was a great PM but she made the Tories electoral poison up here.

I heard that Alex Salmond was ready to give up the 16-17 yr old votes and the timing of the election as long as TJ is repatriated.

I heard Dave said he could ask what he liked when he liked if you just kept TJ…House arrest is ok if he has no internet 😉

That has been offered to the SNP, uncle Dave offered exactly that. Independence is the main aim of the SNP and instead of grabbing it with hands the SNP said bu**** off.

At this point you have to wonder if the SNP actually want out, or are they so terrified that the people of Scotland might say no and as such the whole reason that the SNP exists will disappear. Uncle Alex may be a smart political operator (probably the best in the UK) but he may have just been rattled.
this has been done to death

obviously he does not think he will win the vote [ more accurately he cannot guarantee it] hence dave is trying to force him to do this early.
he will win a devo max vote hence dave does not want to allow this
You cannot just use this argument against one of them they are both politically manoeuvring to achieve their long term goal not just Alex.
Both sides what to pick what the people get to express their will on and when not just the SNP to argue otherwise is to put your politics before reality.

Re-balance – sadmadalam, exactly. And he is becoming more and more slippery. Like a bar of soap in the Achies showers!! Cue, even more smiling at the camera, even slower speech to disguise the rattle. The Scots are too canny to fall for such bluster fortunately.

and dave is doing what Jeesus this is so one sided from people on here it may as well be the editorial comment in some right wing press …i expected better of you tbh but in this thread you have got rather one sided

Was this the same Slippery

I mean what sort of point is that

they are all trying to manipulate the vote to get what they want not just Alex but Dave too….dislike them both rather than just attack the one you oppose …poor but predictable THM you are better than this and brighter

very good druidh

JY – don’t worry I do have a healthy disdain for many politicians of many parties! But I prefer to burst pompous bubbles and in this case, the bullshit that Slippery is some kind of model of integrity.

Of course, they are all at it (and if you read I have said that) but for sure I have come down more against Slippery because of his pomposity and the way he was inflated as a Saint on the previous thread when he is nothing of the sort.

So apologies for the seeming lack of integrity!! I agree about all sides being manipulative hence my opening savlo (rejected by my Scottish friends) that DC had been the first manipulator catching all the others by surprise. But I haven’t suggested that he was being straight (at least I haven’t meant to!). But its quite fun to be accused of being a Tory apologist so excuse me if I play that part up a bit!!!!

But thanks for keeping me upright JY – its good to know you are keeping an eye out!! 😉

Anyway Sturgeon, Plaice, Haddock (are they all fish?) and Alexander on QT and (oh god) Kelvin Mac – I dont think I can bring myself to watch. Even a re-run of celeb big brother is likely to be more stimulating. What’s on newsnight instead?

he will win a devo max vote hence dave does not want to allow this

He will win any Devo-Max vote, I think most people are aware of that. Need to define what Devo-Max is first and this will need years of discussion between Holyrood and Westminster. However Devo-Max is not on offer from Westminster, since Westminster must consider the impact on the entire UK and not just part of it.

I know that this is just politics and it is great to watch. However if Dave wins then the impact on the SNP could be huge – no to Independence and why vote for them, they are just another centre-left party. Hence Devo-Max so that Alex can claim a victory.

Its only because I care and childish name calling is childish but we will all get dragged into it at some point on STW
Why do you keep calling him slippery? No one seems to be saying he is a saint or beyond reproach but plenty seem to be calling him names when both sides are doing the same thing for the same reason.

..no excuse, being childish that’s all!! But his oily performance just gets my goat. I will try and grow up tomorrow and act my age!! But he was being put on an almighty pedestal yesterday, I couldn’t resist.

…as you say we all get dragged into it on SWT (and you must get the real reason!!). I even called that nice man from the Labour party Wallace once?!!?

Now where was Dan’s photo again? I think I need it as a screen saver.

something for you and Zulu to fall to sleep over or think happy thoughts whilst watching QT

Oh god, he’s not on is he. And you stopped my using silly names. They couldn’t put him and Mac on together unless the SNP are paying the BBC to get more votes!

In respect for my friends north of the wall, a wee dram of neat Macallan and channel hopping between QT and NN.

Surprise first question on HS2 answered well with Alexander probably the best! Love the scouser, he’s brilliant!

Alexander best on Q2 as well. I was wrong, QT surprisingly intelligent tonight KM apart!

JY – I am childish and slow tonight. Pleeeassse, I didn’t mean that Dan!!! I was referring to STW dan’s miliband photo from yesterday. I would never have your photo as a screen saver.

Most of your acronyms are lost on me but I have not wanted to hit Kelvin with a spade yet so not that bad yet.

I did not have you down as a Dan man tbh but I did not know who/what you meant till now.

The Scott Independence question was quite well done by all actually – and the lady who asked can we have specifics on why union is better was quite correct. But Alexander, who had a good night, was still correct to pin Sturgeon on the delay issue. At least she came across as reasonable and not a slimey as the First Minister.

So was Paddy auditioning to play Ken Barlow in “Corrie The Movie”?

JY – I am still trying to recover from that Dan slur!!!!

you are lucky your e-mail is not in profile or I would subscribe you to his blog ..if he has one
Aye not a bad debate when you think politicians are having mature debate you probably have spent to long in here watching people just argue , point score and never back down or accept anyone has a point

Its a wee bit quiet on here today – everything covered to death or a calm before the storm?

Yawn. Not sure there’s a lot left to say? Usual crap about Scotland needing to join the Euro and how we’d lose the NHS and BBC etc etc

‘any questions’ on the communist’s radio4 is from Scotland tonight – could make for an interesting show..

Thanks for that – could be interesting. I hope it is as (surprisingly) informative as QT last night. Who’s on the panel. Time for MM to have his say. Usually pretty atriculate.