Saddle position and pain

I’ve never really been sure where to position my saddle, going back over recent years I’ve tended to stick layback posts on my bikes and run the saddles fairly far back on the rails.  Then, realising I was always perched on the front and consciously trying to keep my backside on the main part of the saddle, I’ve gradually bought them forwards and my newest bike I’ve left it with the inline post and the saddle in the middle of the rails.

I’ve watched a couple of videos that chuck out the KOPs method (which is great as the couple of times I’ve tried it I found it quite variable especially if you drop/raise the heel) and talk about using balance on the bike.  (When taking hands off, if you are tipping forwards/sliding forwards/increasing cadence = move saddle backwards as I understand it).

So I’m going to try this on the rollers, but the main reason to fiddle is I tend to suffer from sit bone pain on longer rides.  I’ve got a posh new Spesh saddle with ‘marketing’ saying it relieves sit bone pressure and then paired it with a much better pair of padded shorts and although its more comfy I can tell that after a few hours I’m going to be fidgeting to relieve discomfort.  With cheap shorts I didn’t find the new saddle very good.

So I’m just wondering if there is a general rule/consensus on saddle pain and position.  When I ran my saddles further back I would tend to get a bit of chafe/soreness on the edges of the saddle but now it seems to be more pressure/bruising of the sit bones.

Bigger ride planned tomorrow so would be good to have a couple of basics that I can try out mid ride.

PS In this case its an XC hardtail and downland/lanes so a fair bit of seated pedalling in one position rather than belting down singletrack!

PPS I don’t think its a saddle height issue which I know can cause you to slide forward on the saddle, on my gravel bike I run the saddle a little low if anything, the hardtail I will experiment with a slightly lower position in case it helps

Have you had a saddle and bike fit?

If not, get one. Too many variables to diagnose online imo.

No, although I had pretty much decided to just before covid hit.  I was put off a bit by the fact that if you have two bikes, you pay twice rather than just a bit extra!  Good advice though, its what I would reply with!

Never have trouble on my singlespeed but then again you tend to stand a fair bit on those!

Hmmmm, the three nearest bike fit places to me refer to their fitting as for road bikes 🙁  Are MTB fits very common?

OP have you played with saddle angle at all?

I found the last saddle I had from Specialized (on a new road bike 4 years ago) was  quite literally  a reet PITA. ! Despite their marketing telling me it would be like a sofa.

OP have you played with saddle angle at all?

Yes I tend to be quite fussy as to the angle. Tend to run it flat.

I found the last saddle I had from Specialized was  quite literally  a reet PITA

Interesting!  I stole my wifes Power Comp Mimic 155mm for a 140km mainly road ride on the hardtail and it was fairly good with average shorts.  So I bought a Power Expert Mirror (130mm as thats what my sit bones matched to) and I don’t think its as good.  I did jot down the distance from the bars (using the back of the saddle as the Power is a short nosed saddle so I could compare to my stock saddle) and think its pretty much in the same spot as my wifes but there is always the chance it had slipped either way as I didn’t re-measure it when taking it back off.

I have a 5 day epic in a couple of weeks so if I don’t quickly find an improvement with my saddle I will borrow the wife’s again!

If you found the 150mm fairly good, it’s a hell of a jump to a 130mm?

When you say that you’re sensitive to seat angle, do you mean that things are much worse with it angled slightly differently?

Also if you’re talking about longer rides of 100km plus, I’m not sure I know anyone who doesn’t get a sore arse over those sort of distances on a mountain bike?

Gel cover might be worth a try, could be a very cheap fix:

https://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/outdoor-activity/cycling/best-bike-seat-cover-padded-gel-b1828453.html

Normally start to get a bit of pain as short as 40km but its multiday stuff where I suffer more.  Plus I get similar on the gravel bike.

Regarding angle, its more a preference, it just doesn’t feel right nose down.  But then again, that could be an indication its in the wrong fore/aft position.

Regarding width, the stock saddle that came on the bike is a fairly decent Bontrager model, the Verse Elite at 145mm, and thats not comfy either!  I tried the 155 more for the saddle itself than the width simply as I decided it couldn’t be worse than the Bontrager one and worthwhile as it was there to try before dropping a huge wedge on my own.  I’m sure 130mm is correct for me, I did the sitting on cardboard measurement multiple times over a couple of days and it was consistent!

I got the feeling that wider was better until it started causing chaffing, e.g. I found that a 155mm Romin worked fine other than the small hole it rubbed in my inner thigh! 😬

How about your weight distribution OP? Are your bars really high or quite close to the saddle? I’m thinking the more upright you are the more weight you’re piling through the sit bones…

Andy Bishop at Worksop does bike fits on everything from pro level road bikes to shoppers. Second bike is obviously extra but not double.

Also the best value bike fit around, most of our club travel the hour or so rather than spend twice as much at the local ones.

What sort of pain / discomfort are you getting? Is is numbness, chafing, saddle sores, sit bone soreness? Comfort is really the absence of discomfort, so it helps if you have a start point of knowing what the discomfort actually is.

You’ve got two obvious possible causes: one is bike fit and saddle height in particular, if you’re too high you’re going to be stretching at the bottom of the pedal stroke, you’ll rock over to one side and rub on that side. Bear in mind that if you change seat height, it’ll almost always feel odd at first until your body adapts.

The other is going to be the saddle itself. Is it too wide? The wrong shape for you? Has no pressure relief channel? Too padded/not padded enough etc. If your position on the bike is wrong though, even the best saddle isn’t going to help much.

I went through a similar sort of process recently after getting a really annoying saddle sore/chafing/numbenss and ended up getting an SQlab saddle, which I’ve found brilliant, though it felt slightly odd initially. Their website is good on the principles of saddles, even if you don’t end up with one of theirs, and advice on measuring sit-bone width and how that translates to saddle dimensions in different riding positions – the more upright you are, the wider the saddle you need as you pivot further back.

The SQlab saddles are designed to put all your weight onto your sit-bones, which is odd to start with but starts feeling really natural and comfortable after a few rides. I tried one of the mtb saddles on my cross bike initially, but found it too wide at the front, swapped to the 614, which is their ‘gravel’ saddle and a narrower road bike profile, but with mtb padding and that’s worked really well for me.

I’m thinking the more upright you are the more weight you’re piling through the sit bones…

As above, SQlab say that sitting more upright means you’re sitting on a different part of your sit-bone architecture, so you actually need a wider saddle rather than it being to do with more weight on the sit-bones, if that makes sense, which may be why a narrow saddle based on sit-bone measurement turned out to be very less comfortable, though conversely in an aggressive road position with a big drop between saddle and bars, the same saddle could be fine.

Anyway, I’m not saying that SQlabs is the be all and end all of saddle design, though they work for me, but more generally, if you don’t think it all through logically, you’re basically playing a sort of saddle roulette, just trying stuff on spec, which is stupidly expensive. I’d love to try one of the mad Spesh 3D saddles for example, but it’s kind of an expensive throw of the dice even if you flog it on eBay afterwards.

Good luck! 🙂

Just had a look at the SQlab 612, looks an interesting concept. Is the rear of the saddle a bit wider and flatter than most standard saddles ? I also wonder about all the cut out sections, could they sometimes be focusing more pressure on the sit bone areas? Might be worth trying a saddle with no central cut out, like this from Cannondale: (TBF the Cannondale saddle looks very comfy to me)

https://www.tweekscycles.com/cannondale-magic-cromo-radius-saddle-csgcp7703u1042/

Just had a look at the SQlab 612, looks an interesting concept. Is the rear of the saddle a bit wider and flatter than most standard saddles ? I also wonder about all the cut out sections, could they sometimes be focusing more pressure on the sit bone areas?

Yes, you’re basically sitting on  slightly raised platform – not the very rear, but the bit in front of it – and yes, it does put your weight onto your sit-bones, which feels odd at first, but in combination with the central scoop means that there’s no central pressure on the bit where all the nerves, your waterworks etc sit. It feels odd to begin, with but after a few rides, just starting feeling right to me and very comfortable on long rides. The mountain bike one was a bit wide at the front for me on a gravel/cross bike, hence the narrower 614.

The downside is that you can’t move around as much on the saddle as there’s a defined sweet-spot, but on a mountain bike you’re up and down a lot anyway.  I’m not saying it’s great for everyone, but the principles behind it all make sense to me.

I’ve never had pain issues and always found a “reasonable/average” position to work on various bikes (including road and long rides). This never felt the need for a bike fit. IMO KOPs is an old school guidelines at best, I ignore it.

I have found saddle angle to make a big difference in comfort tho, eg a small change can have me sliding off the front and having to punch back at the bars or the opposite. Also I have saddle that work great (old Flite and pro long, Cambium) and have tried others that felt terrible (Specialized width specific). Have you looked at these factors?

I generally just fit my saddles level. or with a degree of two dip to the rear. What general angles are others fitting to ?

Gel cover might be worth a try, could be a very cheap fix:

Noooooooooooooo………. terrible things, only suitable for gentle pottering to the shops and back.

Hmmmm, the three nearest bike fit places to me refer to their fitting as for road bikes 🙁  Are MTB fits very common?

Not that common, but most places i know of will do it, especially as you’re pretty much using your HT as a road bike… most of the fitting rules are pretty carry over anyway, for XC riding anyway.

I’ve watched a couple of videos that chuck out the KOPs method

KOPS hasn’t been a thing in fitting for probably 20 years, anyone still doing it should be avoided like the plague.

(only really works on a particular type of frame for an “average” person doing a certain type of riding, and even then it’s not that good.)

Have you had sit bones measured? When I bought a Spesh Phenom a few years ago I would have got a medium but went to lbs who measured and said I needed a large ( how very dare they). I find the saddle most comfortable if I sit back on it, I guess the widest bit is meant to support your sit bones, so slamming the saddle back is going to mean you are sitting a bit too far forward.

For me I need the saddle level (checked with a level not my eye) and having the saddle lower than I thought I should, just a smidge though! Made all the difference for me. The other thing and it took a long time to work out was  I needed a narrow saddle! That sorted me out for the gravel bike and mtb 👍🏻

Thanks all, will be experimenting later.  It’s a Procaliber which is a very XC bike so it’s not an upright position.

If your saddle is parallel to the ground at rest, then at sag it’s going to be nose down a bit.

Also worth looking at bar height etc IMV.

KOPS hasn’t been a thing in fitting for probably 20 years, anyone still doing it should be avoided like the plague.

I’ve fitted dozens of riders, and it gets a reasonable starting position. Believe it or not, humans are not that variable when scaling by size. It’s all about taking weight through the legs when pressing on the saddle and balance, i.e., not falling forward. I don’t buy all that “strong core” nonsense. Fore and aft position is what determines weight distribution, together with tilt. I like saddles horizontal, with the exception of a tiny forward tilt for TT positions as more weight can be taken on the forearms.

Saddle width will be important for comfort. How wide are your sit bones? You will normally sit on them and rotate forwards onto the boney peaks. Just sitting on something with a straight back is not the same as the rotated position riding a bike. Too narrow will be uncomfortable as you won’t be on the sit bones. Too wide will give chaffing. More padding is generally a bad thing, but I’ve yet to try the new 3d printed saddles. My go to is an Arione, but I have narrow sit bones and am pretty insensitive to saddles provided they are narrow.

Any one recommend a saddle size for me based on the following:

• Sit Bone width = 14.5cm
• Weight = 82kgs
• Height = 189/6:2ft
• XC bike, full sus
• Using a dropper post

Current saddle is 155mm wide: Specialized Bridge Comp Saddle with MIMIC

This what SQlabs say about sit-bone measurement and saddles. There’s a clickable bit that says ‘Further Steps’ that’s how they suggest their own saddles should be sized relative to measured sit-bone width. I’m not suggesting their saddles btw, I have no idea what will work for you but on their scale your sit-bones are at the upper end of things, so they would be suggesting a pretty wide saddle. All of which assumes your sit-bone measurement is accurate. But on specific saddles, I have no idea and I doubt anyone else does either.

https://www.sq-lab.com/en/ergonomics/sqlab-measurement-concepts/sit-bone-measurement/

I find the saddle is more of an issue that the ‘position’. My bikes were set up by me when I started road cycling with ‘Bernard Hinault’s book ‘Racing and Training’. It’s old skool obviously, but goes into some detail about the saddle set back and height. I’ve then set my other bikes up roughly as close as I could get all these years later, but, the main factor is finding a saddle that suits you.

I personally like the Charge Spoon, and any other saddle that’s quite ‘flat’. Anything more rounded (side to side) or shaped (front/back) then I’ll get problems. Currently sporting two Spoons, a Selle Italia Carbon SLR, a Fizik Nissen, and a Colnago badged FSA something.  Only common factor is they are all quite flat.

I think its too individual a thing for anyone to have a right answer to.  I run my bikes with saddle nose up.  Most folk would find that uncomfortable but it keeps me balanced sitting on my sit bones on the back of the saddle.  Your weight should be on the sit bones however.

Every Specialized saddle (and most similarly shaped examples) I’ve ever tried does the opposite of relieving sit bone pressure, usually by design it is focusing the weight on the sit bones in preference to distributing the load over the surface area – this is intended to relieve pressure on the soft tissue where you don’t want it. It takes a while for the sit bones to adapt and toughen up if switching over from a conventional saddle, and even if returning from time off the bike. The advantage being that if the tissue toughens up to the point you don’t notice it, and you have no pressure elsewhere then you might be approaching some sort of saddle nirvana. For some people though that sitbone pressure never goes away and its an indication that this type is not for you and you probably need the type that evenly distributes pressure. Its hard to separate the marketing baloney from the very subjective reality – I bought into the Power saddle on recommendations of it being touted most ergonomically superior design in production, in practice for me it fell somewhere between straddling a horse (too wide) and after a few hours a torture instrument…. whereas the similar Phenom in the range is about the most comfortable shape found.

Also….stretch the hamstrings – a lot. Most cyclists have chronically tight hamstrings, which doesn’t help with pressure on the sit bones area.