Roadbike Wheels?

I’m looking for a new set of wheels for the roadbike but I’ve not really got much idea about them.

A mate of mine has recommended a set of Dura-Ace 9000 C24’s but I was wondering if there’s much better for that kind of price?
I’d like something that’s still going to be reasonably comfortable but ideally would climb well as we’re heading on a trip to The Alps later in the year.

Any suggestions?

If you’re looking at the Dura-Ace C24’s, check out the Reynolds Stratus.

Similar money, wider tubeless ready rims, stiffer and stronger, similar weight, and they don’t half roll well!

Otherwise check out Fulcrum Racing Zero’s/1’s for a little more weight, but a lot more stifness.

What does “roll well” mean for a wheel?

I like my stans alpha rims, see no point in expensive hubs/wheelsets really.

And what does “comfortable” mean? Are some wheels really more comfortable than others?

Surely more comfort to be had from larger tyres, carbon seatposts/frames/bars etc etc etc..

Would have thought there is better value to be had than DuraAce wheels for sure. Wheelsmith? Or something from JustRidingAlong? Or Novatec for a fraction of the price?

And what does “comfortable” mean? Are some wheels really more comfortable than others?

My Campagnolo Khamsin’s are noticeably more comfy than my mavic ksyrium elite’s. Both pairs have GP4000’s and swapping them onto the same bike there is a big difference. The mavics are waaaay faster but harsher, the campags are slower and comfy.

What wheels do you currently have ? And how much do you weigh ? If you are porky,low spoke count might not be ideal.

I had some Shimano RS80 C24’s which supposedly use the same rim as the DA C24’s. The rims on mine wore down crazy fast. In less than 2 seasons they were concave and ready for the bin. I read somewhere (i will try to find it) that the brake walls on those rims are already very thin to begin with. The rims weigh 384 grams each with a carbon layer applied. So as much material as possible has been shedded from them. They are really designed for racing/nice weather/summer use only. If you want wheels not just for the Alps but for general riding then i would consider something else.

If your spending that much on factory wheels it would make more sense to go with handbuilts and invest in some hubs. Which is what your really paying for because the rims are consumables. That way you can use the hubs again and again more easily. When the rims wear out,and they inevitably will. You will have alot more rim and spoke replacement options in terms of width,depth,shape,colour,tubeless etc. than the straight pull 16/20 spoke arrangment on the DA C24’s. 16 hole rims are quite scarce and Shimano replacements will be full RRP.

Ask yourself can you afford to pay nearly £600 for a set of throw away wheels ? which is basically what they are. i don’t see what the benefit is of buying expensive alloy rimmed factory wheels for a recreational non racer other than they look flash and have pretty logo’s. They dont really represent good value.

Handbuilts have too many positives over factory wheels.

If you want comfort 23mm+ wide rims + high TPI 25c tyres is the way to go.

I definitely notice the difference between wheels, and I languish at the low end on the price spectrum. I got some superstar hand mades in the sale. Pacenti rims on their hubs. They feel great, quick and comfy (less crashy than basic wheels). I paid £150 (yes I did, the pair) in the sale, the newer hub ones now £300. Weight is around 1500kg, if I remember. I weigh 85kg and haven’t bent them and I like to bunny hop potholes rather than go round them. I do find it hard to justify shelling out loads more as I can’t see what I’ll gain. I don’t think that has helped I anyway, but I’ve typed it out so I may as well just post it.

@htmI6

good advise, and in line with my experiences of customers wanting shimano’s higher-end wheels rebuilt – often cheaper to buy a new pair on-line than try and source rims, spoke and have them rebuilt

Shimano’s high end rims do seem very soft and wear quickly, but otherwise are good racing wheels

if you can find factory wheels from Mavic, Fulcrum, Reynolds at a good discounted price they can be well worth purchasing

otherwise its worth finding a good wheel builder, buying some quality hubs like King or DT 240 and going down the hand built route

neilsonwheels – Member

The mavics feel are waaaay faster but harsher, the campags feel are slower and comfy.

FTFY!

Low spoke count Dura Ace hubs, Sapim spokes and a nice light rim. Mine are Mavic CXP33s, but wider and/or lighter are available. Great all round wheels. Not 1400g light, about 1650g, but they roll beautifully (nice hubs), are stiff enough for crits and strong enough for Paris Roubaix – which they finished without any problem with 27c Paves.

So I’d say handbuilts with proper replaceable rims and 20/24 spoke count would be my first choice.

Dura Ace C24s have their place, and that is in a hilly race. Preferably a dry one. I know a few people who have worn down a set and then headed down my route.

I have the RS80. Same rims as the dura ace but cheaper hubs IIRC.

They are nice. More comfortable/vibration damping than my 32h Stan’s Alpha on hope (even though they have 23mm GP4000s not 25mm). They are also really light.

However, the rims have worn down really quickly. They are now dedicated race wheels as I can’t afford to destroy them on some long wet road ride (hence the alphas which I could rebuild).

If I was specing a bike right now I would go for handbuilts, there are options around. I think I’d get away with a relatively low spoke count as I’m a light weight climber. Weight difference would be negligible. Advantages would be that I could replace the rims more easily and when doing long rides and holidays breaking a spoke on a 28h wheel is not catastrophic and could probably get me to a bike shop/home. Breaking a spoke when you have 10 is less than ideal.

There are loads of specialist wheel builders. Do some searching on here. You should be able to get to the 1400g mark at that price which is going to give you a relatively light strong all round wheel.

Thanks for the suggestions so far, I never realised that the C24’s would wear so quickly!

A bit more information, I’m 75kg and currently have the Bontrager wheels that were supplied on my Domane. Not sure what model they are.

Handbuilts with either DT Swiss 240 or possibly Chris King R45’s if the budget would stretch to it would be nice but I’ve no idea about what rims are good, bad or otherwise so suggestions would be welcomed 😀

Just had some Pacenti SL23, I now see what all the fuss is about with wider rims.

Absolute joy in the hairpins last night!

I’m going to recommend what I bought: Superstar hubs and Pacenti SL23 rims. £200 and less than 1500 grams. I weighed them when they arrived and they actually weigh 1479 grams.

They roll very well and are really good VFM 8)

I’m going to recommend what I bought:

Novatech hubs, DT revolution spokes, brass nipples and Stans alpha rims. 28 spokes 2x rear, 24 spokes radial front, 1275g (can’t remember if that included KCNC QR’s or not) and came in <£250.

I’m 100kg and they’re fine, well built wheels are more important than component choice when it comes to strength (IMO). And the Novatec hubs are dirt cheap and super light, search ebay for brands like Sokin and Mr Ride, they’ll usually be listed as something like “268g 5 bearing hub” for £60-£80 a pair. At that price you don’t need to worry about future proofing standards, a new front hub when the rims worn out will be cheaper than adapters from some brands!

BUT
Light usually means thin when it comes to rims, I’d not expect the Stans to see out a winter on wet roads (but they are on their 3rd summer). There’s no magic shortcut to making a light alloy rim, it’s almost always going to be at the expense of brake track thickness if you’re comparing two rims of the same width/depth.

Here’s an older thread on a similar subject, perhaps you’ll find some useful info. Members such as GeeTee1972 seem to know what they’re talking about, but as always, availability and budget may also be a consideration.
🙂

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/road-wheels-what-to-do

Nice of you to suggest so Solo, but three months on and I need to qualify my comments re Shimano wheels.

Having ridden mine over the winter, just one winter, and I also found the rim concaving. Also, I had problems with the lacquer on the carbon fairing. Water would ingress between the lacquer and the carbon and cause the lacquer to bubble and then flake off. I had had this problem once before but having had the wheels replaced under warranty thought nothing more of it, until I had the same problem with the replacement pair. In the end I got them refunded.

So the DA C24s may be a light and relatively affordable wheel, based on my experiences with the C35 (which is the same construction just deeper), you can’t use them in anything other than dry and fine conditions.

Swiss Side are doing some very interesting wheels at the moment and competitively priced but not so light as to make you think the side walls are too thin (though they might be).

GeeTee1972.

I’ve not done anything yet on the road wheel front, work has been a bit sketchy so I’ve had to hold back on large purchases.

However, I did read somewhere recently that Bontrager have/will be updating their Aeolus with a wider rim dimension, which I feel would be good news for anyone consider a set.

So while I might not be in a position to buy new wheels, at the moment. I have been moving up the tyre volume scale. I recently ran a pair of Strada which I was very pleased with. I’ve just fitted a pair of Paris Roubaix (27s) which hit the scales a little heavier than I had hoped for, while tyre clearance to the seat tube indicates I need not experiment with 28s/30s.
But on the strength of the Strada, I expect the Paris Roubaix will be more than sufficiently comfortable, as far as clinchers go.
Cheers.
🙂

There was somebody selling there own branded rims in a choice of depth (24, 35 etc.) with a choice of hubs recommended a while ago on here but I can’t remember the name.

I think they used to be a popular wheelbuilder using other peoples rims but decided to specialize a bit more.

It was about £400 for a 1400g wheelset.

Anybody got any ideas of the name?

Fundamentally you need to decide whether you want light racy wheels for use almost solely in fine conditions, or something a bit more durable which are for use in the wet. Personally I have two main sets of wheels – one is ultegra hubs, open pro rims for all-round use. The other is nice, light carbon tubs for racing and fine weather rides when I’m riding with people I’m worried about keeping up with. I’d wager that for the cost of a pair of the Shimano C24 you could get both.

Anybody got any ideas of the name?

Sounds a bit like Wheelsmith. Though they’re a bit more than 400 quid.

Does sound a bit like Wheelsmith except their rims are Gigantex; pretty much anyone can get them (and yes they are a bit more than £400, more like £700 with own brand hubs).

I’d wager that for the cost of a pair of the Shimano C24 you could get both

Maybe if you’re thinking of the tubular full carbon C24, which are pretty pricey, but the alloy clincher version can be had for about £500.

Don’t really understand what Shimano are doing with their DA clincher offering. Seems a bit of a budget offering for DA compared to their tub wheels.

Maybe their rationale is that they can’t make a full carbon clincher because of the challenges associated with that (they don’t make a carbon crank for example either so perhaps their carbon/resin know how isn’t quite good enough yet?) so they make the clincher an alloy rim with a carbon fairing at which point it becomes relatively inexpensive to make.

Yes, that may well be the case. I’m surprised they label it DA though and not just give it a non-series badge. Cranks are a bit different, DA cranks are definitely pro level bits of kit, the C24 clinchers though definitely aren’t (yes, yes, I know that’s partly because they don’t use clinchers, but if they did I’d assume Shimano would be making something better than what they do today.)

DA C24s are a good wheel IMO
Light enough and run well

I wouldn’t look to use them through the depths of winter but given you can pick a set of Shimano 501’s up for £65 there is no need to

Have run a set of DA 7850 C24s since 2010. Not had any issues with them other than the low spoke count = flexy wheels when out of the saddle.

Were ‘replaced’ with some hand built Tune based jobs last summer.

Empirically I can’t honestly say the Tunes run any better/faster.

Hunt’s new offerings look good and good value – worth a look…

http://www.huntbikewheels.com/

@geetee1972

Shimano did offer a Dura Ace 7800 crankset in carbon fibre / aluminium core, but found there was no practical advantage (740gm), but additional expense to manufacture and bring to retail at acceptable price

it was dropped thereafter, and they went back to making their excellent duraluminium alloy HT2 crankset which comes in at 683 grammes (race 53/39)

Wiggle have Campag Neutron Ultras for £429 in both freehub flavours at the moment, they are an older wheelset compared to the C24s but they are superb, lightweight and I love campag hubs, they just roll and roll. They are cup and cone bearings so fully serviceable and Big Maggy rode them to victory at Paris Roubaix.

I bought 2 sets of carbon wheels last month – some Reynolds Assaults for my Foil, they are very very quick on the flat and climb relatively well for a 40mm rim. I also bought some Token C28s for my Ultimate CF SLX..i knocked out a lot of PBs using these on the big local (Yorkshire Dales) climbs, and that’s after previously using Ksyrium SLRs. The Tokens are ridiculously light, roll beautifully, and were only 900 quid from Wiggle.

Get some of the new or even the older pacneti sl23 rims but the new ones are lighter and wider internally laced to some shimano dura ace 9000 hub. Real world weight will be same but you get a leterall stiffer wheel and one with wider internal width. The wider width will get your tyres to spread more and that means a larger tyre volume and therefore improved comfort. Also sidewall flex is reduced and therefore stability in the bends improves.

A laterally stiffer wheel also gives a marginal gain. All these gains a real but small over the da c24 bjt since you can get them built for a simailr ammount and then have then rebuilt again when the rims wear out is to me a no brainer. wheel the are ap’raching £600 which last 7500km to 1000km before the rims wear out on average that then become throw away is to me maddness as if you look after the hubs they will do far more than that.

A laterally stiffer wheel also gives a marginal gain. All these gains a real but small over the da c24 bjt since you can get them built for a simailr ammount and then have then rebuilt again when the rims wear out is to me a no brainer. wheel the are ap’raching £600 which last 7500km to 1000km before the rims wear out on average that then become throw away is to me maddness as if you look after the hubs they will do far more than that.

This is a very good point and I agree with it, but just to reference that Strada, the custom wheel builders based in Worthing, can re-build pretty much anything. I don’t know for sure if they oculd rebuild on the proprietary DA hub but they might well be able to.

I could rebuild a DA C24 wheel to but there is a big but. the rims are very expensive and aftermarket rims in 16H drilling are not common. The ERD will be different and if you have ever tried to build a wheel with straight pull hubs onto any rim you will know that spoke length calculation is not straight forward. For example I have some straight pull Miche Super type hubs in the shop for building. The DS rear hub has a 2x pattern but for spoke length calculation the crossing is 2.8 Miche won’t tell you that I had to work that out for myself and that did take some time. Rebuilding wheels with straight pull hubs and a different rim is not straight forward which is why few do it.

@thisisnotaspoon…

Novatech hubs, DT revolution spokes, brass nipples and Stans alpha rims. 28 spokes 2x rear, 24 spokes radial front, 1275g (can’t remember if that included KCNC QR’s or not) and came in <£250.

Very interested in how this build can possibly come in that light, is it a typo? Surely those bits would be c.200g more than that (without skewers) by my rough calcs? If not, let me into your secret!! 🙂

Indeed, my 32/32H build with a 105 rear hub is 1550 or so I think.

Very interested in how this build can possibly come in that light, is it a typo? Surely those bits would be c.200g more than that (without skewers) by my rough calcs? If not, let me into your secret!!

Catalogue weights:

– Stans Alpha rims are quoted at 385g each
– DT revolution spokes ~ 280g for 64, so ~230 for 24/28 build
– DT brass nipples ~40g for 24/28 build
– Novatech Hubs, well, model not specified so assume the lightest listed which is 250g claimed weight as far as I can tell, have seen photos of a pair weight at 288g, but I would think ~300 for F+R is more realistic, but lets give them them the benefit of the doubt till we know model.

385×2 + 230 + 250 + 40 = 1290

So not that far out (based on listed weights), but if you assume the hubs are actually nearer 300g it puts that up to 1340g, and then assuming a bit of variance in spokes/nipples/rims and some rim tape and I’d expect the actual weight to be 1350g or thereabouts.

TINAS, what model Novatec hubs did you use?

250gm for a PAIR of hubs?

He may have used 340s – 355gm or so each IIRC.

I’m skeptical of that weight too Al, but this image pops up a lot on WW threads and eBay

is it it possible they have a set at 250g with some extra tweaks?

I did say giving them the benefit of the doubt, I’d expect real world weights to be nearer 300g for the pair

novatec A291/F482 SB-SL hubs are 290g for a pair verified by myself. Stans 340 rims are 385g but a slightly wider and stiffer rim for the same weight (385g to 395g) is the Ryde Pulse sprint rim. Having tried both the Ryde is a better rim but tyres can be a tight fit.