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We have a guy in our club who's been riding for a couple of years now who a few of us are quite wary of as he can be quite erratic and has caused at least 5 crashes in the last year - the only ones on our club run. He either suddenly moves a foot to one side for no apparent reason or doesn't notice the group slowing down and going into the back of someone.
What needs to be done? He seems unable to change, gets very angry with himself when he causes a crash. Sometimes equipment has been damaged, should he contribute to replacement or repair? He's very wealthy so I do think it's a shame that he doesn't offer to contribute to costs - luckily no serious injuries.
Any similar experiences? It needs to be discussed though I'm thinking it would be easier to wimp out and just move to another group. 😳
Suggest he join the local Triathletes club? He sounds ideally qualified....
Suggest he join the local Triathletes club? He sounds ideally qualified....
😆
Hmmm he is into triathlons....
Hmmm he is into triathlons....
Standard Triathlete cycling style: Head down, turn the cranks, switch off to outside world. Wake up when on ground under pile of other cyclists and then buy more expensive aero kit as that was obviously the reason the other cyclists crashed into you, even though you don't remember being in a group with other cyclists at the time.....
get him told "learn to ride or sit at the back"
love the tri comments...coner like a 50p piece.
Is anyone on the rides an "elder statesman" of the club? My club - old clu really, I don't live near them now - has one such person. He has an easy manner about him that means he manages to get you to think you came up with the idea all along.
Failing that, just shout at him and tell him he's riding like a t--t.
He would be told in no uncertain terms that he's a liability in my company. You say this has been going on for a couple of years?! Incredible! Tell him unequivocally that he's a danger to himself and to others. I speak from experience, a bunch can be a dangerous place, even with experienced hands.
Honestly, don't take the risk. If he hasn't got it after two years? WTF!
Ah the squirrel. Every road club has one.
As per Merak, if I've been out of group riding for a while I always start at the back and work my way back in as my/their confidence grows. Made the mistake of braking hard once and sent a guy into a barbed wire fence and was told in no uncertain terms what was expected me 😳
It does look like we should get the group leader to have a word.
He rode into me and broke my less than a year old carbon bike the other day 🙁 Looking into repair or see if manufacturer will do me a replacement deal.
Problem is though, OP states that he crashes into the back of people too, and the back is where the speed concertinas more with a little bit of slowing up front."learn to ride or sit at the back"
It's a tough one. Up front on the outside perhaps, (does he have a habit of panicing and slamming on the brakes?) though of course the consequence's of causing a crash there are all the worse.
Yeah he often sits on a wheel very close and seems he doesn't notice what's happening ahead sometimes. I don't want him behind or beside me any more.
tthew - Member"learn to ride or sit at the back"
Problem is though, OP states that he crashes into the back of people too, and the back is where the speed concertinas more with a little bit of slowing up front.It's a tough one. Up front on the outside perhaps, (does he have a habit of panicing and slamming on the brakes?) though of course the consequence's of causing a crash there are all the worse.
sorry- didnt read it properly. Still needs a word. I wouldnt ride with him if he had caused more than one crash and doesnt seem to be learning from his mistakes. Is he talking ...is that why he isnt concentrating.
I remeber my first chain gang when 17 - needed ear plugs i was shouted at that much. Soon learnt though. 😀
How do people expect new members to ride in the group? I was worried about the etiquette when I joined a bowling league, at least there you're (probably) not going to injure someone when you make a mistake!
Remove his helmet, tell him to ride at the back --
I could see how the first time it may have been an accident but after a pattern has developed, no way would i be any where near him, would rip the back out of him though, mercilessly,he may not pay for the damage in money, but he can in kind
Just not paying attention as far as I can tell - his sudden moves to the left or right are bizarre; don't think he realises, one time he pushed someone off the road onto the grass and not sure he realised what he'd done as there wasn't a crash.
Our club runs aren't too serious really - not a chain gang though there are accelerations where things get more structured; never had a crash then fortunately.
How do people expect new members to ride in the group?
We have several groups and the idea is to start in the slowest, where (hopefully) you learn about riding in a group, then work your way up the groups.
one time he pushed someone off the road onto the grass and not sure he realised what he'd done as there wasn't a crash.
Surely he realised once someone told him....
In our club he'd be shouted at by the bunch and taken to one side at the end of a ride. Nobody's perfect but if you cause problems you need to be told so that you may adjust your behaviour.
Just not paying attention as far as I can tell - his sudden moves to the left or right are bizarre; don't think he realises, one time he pushed someone off the road onto the grass and not sure he realised what he'd done as there wasn't a crash.
Absence seizures? 
He needs a medical and to ride with triathletes.
If he is causing damage and not making good then his invite to the group ride needs to be revoked.
Yip, we have a couple of these in our bunch. Seems to be a built in situational un-awareness.
One admits he is fairly new to the game and is happy to have errors pointed out, though he still makes unexpected swerves and has a habit of slowing drastically half way up a hill as if he just gives up.
The other is a stockbroker and he is RIGHT ! No one likes to ride alongside him as he is the single most important person there and we all must take account of that.
I of course is perfekt.
He rode into me and broke my less than a year old carbon bike the other day
Just because he's on a bike doesn't mean he's not responsible for any damage he causes - ask him who he's insured with so hat you can claim for the damage to your bike & see if that focuses his attention.
It's often an unfortunate truth that folk don't consider their actions if there's no obvious consequence to them.
5 crashes and not making good?
Has he been asked to make good?
I'd be thinking about stern words about being removed from the club. He sounds neither safe nor responsible
If he was riding with me hed suddenlyfind all the spacein the world on everyside.......
I wouldnt be going near him . +1 for asking for insurance details
Can't you ask on a road biking forum 😈
We get this with some newcomers, and a few not so newcomers. As one of the older guys I get asked to have a word which means riding with the various groups.
The biggest problem I found was people chatting too much. Although we have an etiquette guide, some people just can't follow the basics. It got so bad ( I was fed up of shouting single file or two up when the group was taking up the whole road and offering a view to motorists of being six abreast) that we purchased some go pro type cameras, which has helped.
Some people are cack handed, some have vision problems and some just have so little road awareness I really don't know where their heads are.
You also have to point out that if you've missed a pot hole it's tough, go through it, don't swing wildly to one side, you're bike won't turn to dust.
Group riding on the road sounds like fun ! with so many rules and people shouting if you transgress and being a mobile road block with the fun that brings are there any up sides?
Yes.
But that's the problem. People wanting to have fun on the highways don't mix that well with the more sporting riders.
Strange though it might sound, the camaraderie, the bond and pure enjoyment (i can't really say fun) found in a good road group is immense.
There aren't any rules whatsoever, but a group traveling along at speed all need to be singing from the same hymn sheet.
No rules - are you frackin kidding me ? There is certainly a ton of etiquette.
Loads of clubs have this kind of thing. I used to ride with ERC training runs until too many crashes started happening, generally caused by the triathletes riding as described above. And an older guy who personally I think just needed his eyes checked, vain old so and so.
Reference:
http://www.edinburghrc.co.uk/news/611/212/What-is-the-etiquette-of-group-road-riding
I only rode with a club half a dozen times - found same thing, an old wobbler and a couple of triathletes were a proper liability )
first few times i went out with a road club, you were guided as to what todo. No one wants to crash, so you do have to prove yourself safe.
Think of it like a skills course that seems so popular with some MTBers these days.
theres plenty of "rules" on the trails as well, lets face it some people think skids are cool.
Going back to the OP, i think you need to speak to this chap about your frame.
I went on a couple of ERC club rides. Scared the crap out of me so I didnt go back.
There's a big difference between riding in a group and riding as a group, the latter is much more difficult.
To the OP, try and get your man out in a smaller group and give him some pointers.
I do not understand the tri comments - ok so triathletes are not allowed to draft, may have tri bars ( hopefully removed for group rides) and may be less used to riding in groups. But why the need to generalise? There are considerate cyclists and sloppy cyclists - how they use their bikes (ie which discipline) is irrelevant surely?
I do not understand the tri comments - ok so triathletes are not allowed to draft, may have tri bars ( hopefully removed for group rides) and may be less used to riding in groups. But why the need to generalise? There are considerate cyclists and sloppy cyclists - how they use their bikes (ie which discipline) is irrelevant surely?
Point is that triathletes are often people who ride bikes because they are good at swimming or running, whereas most people come biking because they want to ride bikes.
Definitely a wider range of abilities at tri club than at our local road club ride.
OP- he could be , for whatever reason, one of those people who will never develop the skills needed to ride in a group safely, just as there are people who lack the 'motor' skills to drive a car. The responsible ones recognise this and take evasive action, arrogant/ignorant ones do not.
Sad as it may be, he needs to either accept that he lacks spacial awareness/skills,or somehow develop them . For your group's safety and enjoyment to be jeopardised by one person seems a bit selfish to me. you say he's been with you a couple of years, he is not going to change unprompted. He may have an underlying medical condition,/ear infection that affects his balance/motor skills-- its his problem as much as yours! good luck
Comming to a club run near you.
What needs to be done?
You need to grow a pair, as does everyone else in the club. If they had, you might not be mithering about a broken carbon bike right now. 5 crashes in a year and nobody has the balls to say squat? 🙄
is it a Mamil club ?
Classic Tri video
Triathletes can ride bikes too! I used to 'race' triathlon but have never yet caused a crash in a group ride, or on the track. Then again I've never owned a TT bike either. I know folks who ride mostly MTB who have no idea how to ride on the road in a group and they've never been near a triathlon. Most tri clubs run group rides.
Anyway, back to the OP - someone needs to have a word with this bloke and put him on a warning. Explain to him what he's doing wrong, the danger he's putting himself and others in, and the cost he's already incurred on others through his actions. Offer to take him out in slower/smaller groups and help him learn, and make it clear that if he doesn't improve he'll have to leave the club and/or make good on any damage he causes.
Next time he does something stupid he might put someone under a lorry.
im sure when i do triathlons they all sneer at me saying look hes a cyclist - he cant run for toffee 😀
only read the first page of comments, but, do people not talk to one another any more? he broke your bike by ploughing into the back of you? 💡 tell him to stop riding like a bender or he can go somewhere else
why don't you all up the pace and drop him?
Comming to a club run near you.www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRKajY5GlyI
Was the first leg of that race drinking 8 pints? I've never seen anything like it
He knows he is in the wrong as he apologizes repeatedly which is why I am surprised he hasn't offered to sort out the costs. He's a fairly good rider really just sometimes does stupid things which he doesn't seem to learn from.
if he's fairly good, how do you define Bad ?
Well I just mean mostly he rides without incident and he's quite strong relative to the rest of the group
Whether he is strong is irrelevant, his actions speak louder
I honestly wouldn't expect someone else to pay for my bike if I crashed on a group ride. If you enter a group ride you are doing something inherently dangerous and you have to have some trust in those you ride with.
I agree with this in general, however if the bloke is consistently causing accidents either he shouldn't be riding with anyone or he should accept some responsibility. It's not fair that people keep having to buy replacement parts because they're too nice to tell him to get a grip.I honestly wouldn't expect someone else to pay for my bike if I crashed on a group ride. If you enter a group ride you are doing something inherently dangerous and you have to have some trust in those you ride with.
which club? 🙂
Mamils r us..
He's ridiculously well off so I think he should offer as it was blatantly his fault.
Was the first leg of that race drinking 8 pints?
I reckon it was in the second clip - 8 pints of G n T )
steve77 that actually made me angry.
What do you never ever ever ever ever ever ever do?
Look down at you're bike.
Got a problem get off out the way.
He is not a newcomer who needs looking after. He has bee in the group for a couple of years. tell him to piss off.
We have a guy in our club who's been riding for a couple of years now who a few of us are quite wary of as he can be quite erratic and has caused at least 5 crashes in the last year - the only ones on our club run. He either suddenly moves a foot to one side for no apparent reason or doesn't notice the group slowing down and going into the back of someone.
obviously a closet woman driver then,
sorry misread that, thought thread was erotic road cyclist on club run. I'm in the wrong place, on you go......
Update - took a bit of time to find out what my options are as was hoping Trek would do my some sort of crash replacement deal. Seems they don't have much of a deal offering me 20% off a new frame. Now I don't know how much profit is in a frame but I am sure they could sell me one at 1/2 price and still not lose out. So I'll be keeping away from their products in future - indeed may as well buy from an internet brand or even import one from China. BTW, my frame is a 2012 Madone 5.9 - current version costs an impressive £2k.
As for my riding buddy, despite admitting responsibility at the time he feels that I have a cheek to even want to discuss with him. I mentioned the incident to a senior club member who witnessed a previous crash he caused and he's not impressed with what happened. Seems my best option is to get the frame repaired and it would be nice if the chap that caused it, and got away with no damage to his bike, offered to help out but not holding out any hope.
I think he should pay for a replacement! And the club should support you. If nothing else comes of this, at least they can get rid of a dangerous rider.
Does he ever leave his shoes around, just for a minute?
He rode into me and broke my less than a year old carbon bike the other day
He needs to pay up, simple.
If it's a club, does the membership not include any sort of BC/CTC membership, which usualy includes 3rd party cover?
Personlay there's no way I could cover the cost of other peoples bikes, but equaly I'd be mortified if I caused a crash that resulted in damage to them as I know how pissed off I'd be if someone crashed into me.
Mikeypies - Member
Group riding on the road sounds like fun ! with so many rules and people shouting if you transgress and being a mobile road block with the fun that brings are there any up sides?
I think you missed the point entirely.
There are 'rules' unwritten or otherwise to just about everything. From no kiddyfiddling or murder in everyday life, to not being offside whilst playing football. No sudden movements or braking whilst riding in a group is a fairly easy one to grasp.
I don't think the club has anything to help. I do wonder if a reason he doesn't want to pay is that it would open up the likelihood of him having to pay for future crashes he causes! After a previous crash he caused it was suggested by one of the senior members that he should pay for the damage but the chap who he knocked off said it wasn't necessary - helmet and gilet so not such a big deal. The amusing thing was he said he was so rich he would happily pay but seems that doesn't apply to my situation now. I will be talking to the senior member for his opinion.
At the time my crash happened it was just the two of us way waiting for the rest of the group to catch up, why he was riding so close I have no idea as we're usually spread out - if a crash happens in a group it's hard to say who's responsible and it could be pretty expensive too!
To the OP, the bike got damaged to an accident caused by another rider, not by anything on the bike or frame failing?
Why would you expect Trek to offer anything? I'd say 20% discount is still a very reasonable offer on something that is not down to them to support.
I'd be seeking recompense from the crap rider to pay for the repair or replacement.
Failing any reasonable outcome I'd be taking a hammer and a gas axe to his bike pronto!
Something to do with keeping your customer happy so they stay a customer - possible to do without losing out and Specialized have been good at this in the past. The fact it had any damage is odd really as I'd come to a halt but then fell sideways - wouldn't expect any damage - none to anything else on the bike (e.g. bar tape) just the stay. Seems carbon isn't as strong as some would have you believe - a metal stay wouldn't have broken.
mudshark - Member
Now I don't know how much profit is in a frame but I am sure they could sell me one at 1/2 price and still not lose out.
You don't know the margin...except you do?
No, you don't
insurance will cover it surely?
Al - Well I studied manufacturing and business so my educated guess would be most of the costs of a carbon frame are in the R&D and tooling. I also know that Chinese carbon bikes are bought locally for a few hundred pounds. You think the unit costs of a £2k frame are over 50%?
Edit - it's irrelevant actually as I wouldn't have paid even £1k but I wanted to see what their response was.
Insurance - I don't have any special bike crash insurance, do most people?
Some home insurance will cover accidental damage on things away from the home, I would expect there to be a limit though and you would need to specify any item over a certain amount on the policy.
I'll talk to the insurance company as I have bike cover to £2.5k but it doesn't say anything about damage - I assumed it was just for theft.
Surely a member of the Club's committee needs to have a word with this guy and tell him he's not welcome on club runs anymore, as he's a liability. In short, eject him from the club!
Deffo tell him to sling his hook or make a point of refusing to ride out every time you see him.
Knicking you off at a near standstill is pretty crap TBH. I'd be paying up for wrecking a fellow rider's bike.
Unfortunately he's very pally with key members of the group we ride with within club so they'll support him, after starting this thread I suggested the group leader should have a chat with him to discuss his riding but he doesn't want to - they're very friendly. I do have the option of talking to senior members of the club who I know quite well so am considering that.
I have spoken to my insurance company now who have created a claim for me so will see if that gets me anywhere.
BTW - I wasn't at a standstill when he collided with me it's just that I controlled the bike until we came to a halt when he knocked me over as hadn't regained control. He struggles to clip out!
Even if you do manage to claim through your insurance you'll still take a hit on future policy costs. The guy sounds like a complete liability and, friendly with senior club members or not, given he's got history I think he should be footing at least part of the bill here.
If other senior club members are prepared to back him then either they're out of order and should deal with this properly, or there's more to this than just your side of the story (no offence).
Assuming there's not more to this, I'd be having a serious word with senior club members and refusing to ride with him. Even if it means joining a slower group I'd just make a point of it and make sure people know why.
Not the best option, but if there's another club local (ish) I might even be tempted to flounce off and join them.
By not tackling a problem they've been made aware of are they opening themselves up to potential liability?
To be clear - I haven't raised this yet with senior members of the club, just with the group leader. The leader is very quick to shout at newbies who cause problems but not his mates! The leader's response when I spoke to him was that the problem guy was getting better.
It's annoying as I had been riding with a faster group but had to drop down due to missing some rides due to ill health; I do hope to try again with them in the Spring.