regulating and limiting sportives

I just wished race organisers would do the decent thing and take down all the bloody “temporary” (sic) road signs after their events. They litter roads, verges and BWs all around us.

Echo that comment for all events.They need removing after events otherwise they have little effect on the public if they are warning signs and left up all year

Lots of the usual knee jerk reactions from those who see cycling as a god given right.
Sportives are often races.
A winners time is given.
Stop that and it would help. Use a standard time instead and people would slow down and it would also remove the wannabe racers.
Hold on though, isn’t that an audax?
Big ones are a bloody pain and give a bad impression. I’m the first to agree that drivers should wait their turn but big sportives put so many riders on the road, many who just won’t give any other user a chance, that it is all too much. It’s no good saying wait when the stream of bikes is 3 wide for nearly a mile on a bending hill. That’s wrong.
The standard of riding is often shite. Riders don’t think, “how carefully can I get down this hill?” but “how fast”. Tossers.
Litter is always an issue IME and I include the signs. They don’t need to be up the week before and the bloody broom wagon should have them down within minutes of the last rider. I have a lovely collection of Wiggle ones from the last event through the FoD and there are tons still about.
To naively say that they are good for the sport is wrong. They are good for lining the promoters pockets.
Sadly these events now need to be authorised in the way that vehicular events do. Not all but anything with a large number of riders.

Double standards here.
Sportives are not races. A race is a race, that’s why you have sportives and races.
So during a sportive you are just riding, you are just traffic, you abide by the highway code.
Ahh but the STW sportive’ists say sportives are races, in which case you need controls and rules. Racing if that’s what you are doing on the highway needs different permissions to a mass participant ride.
So make up your minds, are you riding a sportive and all well and good or racing illegally and kinda twisting the Highway Code to suit yourself.
BTW seen the massive cue of cars at a standstill when a football match is on?

We rode the Dragon Ride this year (8th time) and I saw at least 4 people being scraped off the road, and herself waited for 40 minutes for someone to be put into a helecopter on the last descent.

Not done a UK sportive, but that seems pretty much par for the course for Spanish ones. Even the long running, well-organised Quebrantahuesos for example. One thing that does seem to be different is the positive attitude of locals, and the road closing. (Has be said I don’t think they’d run sportives every weekend in the same area here, that does seem a little stupid and risks antagonising the locals unnecessarily…)

Yeah well I’m a keen cyclist and have some issues with sportives as I live in the chilterns. Signage litter, dangerous riding, multiple events some on the same day going in opposite directions.on the same course, routes including dangerous stretches of dual carriageway. The off road ones seem particularly. selfish- I’ve seen dog walkers literally marooned on bridleways while a 100 riders scream past without even a thankyou. I still.do the offroad ones but I do wonder sometimes.

TBH I’ve only ridden a few. The first one tainted them for me, the haters would have loved it. I saw a crash leaving the venue, one on the road and another returning to the venue. The riding in general was shocking.

The second one was embarrassing at first, far too many riders were set off together and effectively closed down the roads. Though after a while it sorted itself. I only saw three riders in the second half of the ride.

All the small ones have been ace.

Now the problem is hitting reliability trials, seen folk risking their lives at junctions to save miliseconds.

Open roads + caffine geled up geezers + lack of respect and skills = problems.

Done one sportive in my life – pprobably my last.

Was like riding with a swarm of wasps on your back wheel – i looked round and every time there was nearly a crash behind me. Half wheeling , trying to come up the inside , getting to the front and slowing dow , trying to break into our cycle of 4 riders who ride together often

Thank goodness for the lecht. The weekend warriors might be able to hold a wheel on the flat but the 5 of us left after the lecht got on much better without their oars splashing about badly.

There needs to be a minimum level of rider – clubs are good for teaching that – sportives encorage missing out on that vital part of road riding. Most of them have worked out group riding gives good times but have not worked out how to do it safe

Echo that comment for all events.They need removing after events otherwise they have little effect on the public if they are warning signs and left up all year

+1 – saw a sign up yesterday warning of pedestrians crossing the road for a sponsored walk event a couple of weeks ago. I’ve also removed a MM sign from Eastnor when I was riding running in Eastnor after the event, and on a similar note I had a sign up on my side gate for a while saying that it was closed due to F&M 😉

Liverpool-Chester-Liverpool is a classic “sportive/charity/not a race ride”

Only rode it twice, this year and last year.

Last year we were lucky to be in the first group of 20 through the tunnel.

This year we left with the pack, half way in people were ramping over the centre of the tunnel to pass as it clogged up. I can see why as slower riders were going 3 abreast over each lane.

Out on the open road it was havoc, Lever Causeway was scary, car passing down the straight as the road was literally packed with riders. Got to a point a driver got stalked into overtaking as it was dangerous to sit with the bikes.

Some cars were less sympathetic as afterall the riders were trying there best for our local Childrens Hospice Claire House.

Limit them yes. Manage them better to create less problems is the key imo.

Why is limiting and regulating sportives a silly idea ?

I think that there should be split times along the course which would be deemed as ‘competitive’ times, and if people reach these checkpoints before the allotted time they should be repeatedly shot in the face.

Unfortunately these sort of events always attract competitive middle managers who are too shi’ite and lack the balls to take on proper racing, and think it’s cool to mow down grannies while shouting ‘THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX’.

Unfortunately these sort of events always attract competitive middle managers who are too shi’ite and lack the balls to take on proper racing, and think it’s cool to mow down grannies while shouting ‘THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX’.

Where can I find this proper racing?

Sportives are everywhere and easy to do, I did one not because I’m a middle manager with no balls but because it was just down the road and looked like a good challenge. I raced myself in may ways by pushing myself on hoping to complete the course in a good amount of time. I was by myself so didn’t really engage in any group stuff that was going on. I rode on the left hand side of the road, obeyed speed limits and took my litter home with me.

Would I do one again?
Probably not doing that on open roads is not brilliant, in fact anything like that on open roads seems a little foolish, they seem to be able to close roads for running races when ever they want so why no cycling races.

Sort out the numbers, do a proper rider briefing, have marshalls, signs up a week beforehand (with date & time) down at the end of the day, course cleaned after and send a sweeper van round to collect any in trouble.

Perhaps if some of these events got together you could have some rolling closed events too.

I can see a need to limit numbers. The big one up here has thousands of riders. But it stays off well used roads on the whole. Also setting people off in small groups spreads people out. Never really noticed any issues. Groups that form never really exceed that of a big Saturday club run. Crashes happen but then with thousands of people it is only a very small percentage. I’ve seeen a bunch sprint collapse on the same road in a sanctioned race and more were injured out of that group than I know about in a sportive.

Despite what people want to argue about the definitions people are trying to ride them as fast as they can. A good number of club riders will be able to hit 100miles so the challenge is doing it fast.

I assume sportive organisers need to ask permission from the police? Having said that the guy who does my local one organises big prem calender road races so knows his onions.

Fwiw there is far more carnage and delay when football matches are on. The local derby particularly.

Lots of the usual knee jerk reactions from those who see cycling as a god given right.

+1

Comments like this always annoy me:

Motorists shouldn’t ‘force their way past’ they should be patient and pass when it’s safe. If that takes several minutes then tough, leave earlier or take a different route.

Lots of words like “should” “shouldn’t” being used here. Yes they SHOULDN’T force their way past, but they DO. That doesn’t help the poor sod who SHOULDN’T be in intensive care after that car who SHOULDN’T have forced his way past actually DID force his way past taking out a load of other riders in the process. (This poor ‘sod’ is actually hypothetical..)

As the fields get larger it may be worth setting the riders off in groups. Similar to triathlons.

-Cyclists are more likely to get better times as the whole field won’t try and pile into the first roundabout/corner at once.

-It won’t piss everyone else off as much.

People SHOULDN’T ride in large groups, but they do.

The fact is, the problem isn’t the sportive, but the attitude of drivers. It is an extension of the British perception that bikes don’t belong on the road.

I disagree. I would have the same problem if horse riders suddenly decided to do mass rides on the road. The attitude of the drivers is the same attitude of the cyclists. After all, i would say nigh on all the guys riding their bikes, drive cars and probably drive them in the same way. It’s not the vehicle it’s the person in control of it.

As a Boxhill resident I am well aware of what large numbers of cyclists on the roads every weekend and during the week in summer months is like. Most of the time it’s a non issue but it can be a royal pain.

For those of you who think that there should be no complaints from locals as you are wholly entitled to ride your bike for enjoyment whenever and whereever you please….. Imagine a race track, lets say motocross was built in the fields outside the back of your house. All legal and above board. Would you be happy about the noise? Every weekend… all year round? I very much doubt it.

I would be interested to know how many of the people saying… “We are just riding our bikes so tough”… actually live in an area that is affected by regular disruption due to similar sporting events.

Cycling is great and people of all ages and levels should be able to ride bikes BUT if it is a mass organised event then there should be restrictions on ability and some common sense applied to how the numbers are managed. May be having to be a member of a club to participate might help keep inexperienced riders fro taking part.

Either way it’s about common sense and common decency and not about your right to ride.
Don’t run events on unsuitable roads.
Don’t run events in the same place every single weekend.
Be nice to and involve the locals. This applies to the event organisers and the participants.

It is an extension of the British perception that bikes don’t belong on the road.

…or that the road is for travelling on, not for playing on (or racing).

Hundreds of people riding unmarshalled is daft it holds a lot of people up and can lead to traffic trying to force its way past

Hundred of people driving unmarshalled is daft. It holds a lot of cyclists up and can lead to cyclists having to squeeze their way past.

There, fixed that for you in terms of my commute.

Sportives are mostly run as revenue-generating ventures (few if any make decent money though), it’s simply not economical to put a sportive on limited to say 200 riders yet provide timing and feed-stops. Audax work OK on a smaller level as timing isn’t done and feed-stops consist largely of buying your own stuff in a pub being used as a checkpoint etc. There’s also no signage or marshalling costs incurred.

I do think sportives need a bit more regulation (incidents of two sportives colliding on the same stretch of road have started happening for example). And it’s not great for the image of cycling if there’s a 1000+ rider sportive on every weekend in some of the more popular areas. Add to that sportives do seem to attract a fair few dick-heads (hello, gel wrapper goes in your back pocket moron!) and it starts getting a bit anti-social. However any regulation/licensing can’t add to costs as they’re already a rip-off in the main.

It is an extension of the British perception that bikes don’t belong on the road.

…or that the road is for travelling on, not for playing on (or racing).
So what is the difference between using the road for playing on & using the road to get to somewhere to play? Are all these drivers on important business journeys at the weekend?

Sportives are mostly run as revenue-generating ventures (few if any make decent money though), it’s simply not economical to put a sportive on limited to say 200 riders yet provide timing and feed-stops. Audax work OK on a smaller level as timing isn’t done and feed-stops consist largely of buying your own stuff in a pub being used as a checkpoint etc. There’s also no signage or marshalling costs incurred.

It’s the timing that makes them expensive. Food stops can be quite cheap to sort. We did a few 100km/60km ones.
They were £5 and included a free gel, fully waymarked routes, HQ with buffet afterwards, photographer (club member) and club riders sat with slower or novice riders to guide them around and offer help and advice. They were profitable. We got nothing but praise. And we drove round right away removing signs.

officialtob – Member

Lots of words like “should” “shouldn’t” being used here. Yes they SHOULDN’T force their way past, but they DO.

Maybe the solution is a better police presence to cut down on dangerous driving, rather than punishing the victims of crime?

I get the impression most of the posters here haven’t actuallt ridden a sportive.

I have ridden over a dozen and in my experience:

The numbers ARE regulated. They advertise a maximum field and then close their entries. The number varies but there is always a maximmum. I don’t know but presumably the organisers have to sort this out with the local authorities?

There are seldom “masses” of people. Even in the big events the fields split up very quickly and lots of time I find myself riding on my own. There are certainly groups but I usually find they are either too slow or too fast for me.

Again in my expereince there are no bunch starts – the field is released in batches. Again the numbers vary here but in the most recent sportive they were batches of 10-12. During that sportive admittedly a small one) I saw only 5 other riders all day in a five hour ride and we never rode together (they were too quick for me!)

As it happnens i do feel sympathy for people who are trying to get somewhere in cars and get held up but I really feel this is less of a problem than the haters make out.

I am not in favour of “regulation” but I would like to see more responsibility taken on by the organisers for the events in terms of briefings/litter etc – as others have said. Most though have been very good.

The standard of riding IS variable. In many instances though a helpful word or two could get these guys on the right track. I occasionally ride with a large club of presumably experienced riders and I can vouch for the fact that the riding is “variable” there too! This club sets off in batches of 10-12, and follows a fairly set route, and has over 100 people turning up on a nice day – kind of a lot like a sportive really!

So what is the difference between using the road for playing on & using the road to get to somewhere to play? Are all these drivers on important business journeys at the weekend?

Come on, roads aren’t the place to play anything. Thousands of drivers going to the shops and minding their own business is in no way the same as a thousands riders in a pseudo race all leaving the local leisure centre at once. Probably why they built places like Silverstone and Epsom.

So what is the difference between using the road for playing on & using the road to get to somewhere to play?

Pretty obvious and fundamental. Sunday league football matches should be played on the a19 using your logic.

clanton, pretty well my experience.

Things that help are isolated event HQ’s
Smaller start groups
Starts relating to ability, but sadly the slow well equiped knobber won’t be happy to be seen in a slower pen!
Early hills work wonders.
Reminders from the event organisers that you are on public roads open to all traffic no crossing white lines etc.

We get a full briefing before a road race and will get pulled if we misbehave.

Pretty obvious and fundamental. Sunday league football matches should be played on the a19 using your logic.

Well I like club runs for the social aspect and the cake stop, the bikes just a means of getting to the cake.

Not really, one is using a road to travel down & the other is playing a game of football. Clearly, if people are exhibiting racing behaviour then there might be a problem, but if you are talking about people just riding in a bunch then I don’t think there is. As someone says above, an awful lot of people seem to be motivated by sportive snobbery on this thread. I dunno, but when I’m driving around I’m hampered far more by other drivers than I am by cyclists taking part in organised events.obviously if you live in Box Hill you may get it more often, but it doesn’t really impact on my day to day driving.

The numbers ARE regulated. They advertise a maximum field and then close their entries. The number varies but there is always a maximum. I don’t know but presumably the organisers have to sort this out with the local authorities?

I think this is the key bit – everything else after this is an irrelevance. Someone somewhere must decide what the maximum entrant number is for an event. That number needs to take into account the route and type of roads the event will be run on, the impact on other road users and the local community and ability of the organisers to handle the numbers. The organiser will also have a weather eye on if that number makes financial sense. You will never keep everybody happy but if there are significant numbers of people unhappy with the impact this money making venture is having on everybody else (including some cyclists who would naturally be very pro other people riding bikes) you can surmise that something might have gone wrong in this part of the process.

I don’t have any issue with sportives having to run under licence and seeking permission of the local authority, the police and a cycling body to sanction it and for the licence to specify the maximum number and stipulate compulsory marshalling points where deemed prudent and minimum numbers and locations of first aiders etc. In fact as a participant I would be encouraged to know that the event had past scrutiny and was not being run as a bit of a blag to maximise profits by the organisers.

The race bit is a funny one because as this is a biking site we naturally think of a cycle road race. I’d say your average sportive is a lot more like a rural marathon. In a marathon people are mainly ‘racing’ themselves or the terrain with the aim of getting around in a respectable (to them) time. Only a tiny minority are actually racing racing. If you see your average middle aged middle manager marathon runner as a racer then imo so is your average sportive rider – or neither are, I couldn’t care less how you define them. I can’t see why a sportive run in the New Forest though should not look very similar to the New Forest marathon in terms of organisation and permissions.

Whatever ‘we’ think (we being a bunch of cyclists discussing cycling on a bike forum), the issue here is the wider public perception

I doubt very much these types of mass participation events exactly endear us to the wider world, and the knee jerk reaction (we have every right to ride on the roads, cars are the problem, etc) hardly serve to improve things

Even as a dyed in the wool cyclist, i must admit to an internal sigh when having to wait behind a bunch of mamils (of course, i always wait until completely safe to pass) – conversely, i always have an internal smile while waiting to pass some one commuting or going about there business by bike (not sure why it should make a difference, just does?)