Recent immigrants make net contribution

Life is competition

I think you will find it is cooperation – I assume you cooperate with your family rather than compete with them?
All we need to do is to get you to extend this principle further
Its eoither that or me and a few good ole boys will come round your house and out compete you with violence and take what we want as all life if competition and morals are for losers not winners

Work is what underpins your whole life

Das arbeit macht frei 😯

Wow it takes all sorts

I think you will find it is cooperation – I assume you cooperate with your family rather than compete with them?

Really? Do you think immigrants are coming in search of cooperation?

No. They’re coming to work. In short, take your job.

If you (not you personally, obviously) aren’t prepared to move half-way around the country, never mind half-way around the world you will lose your job to an immigrant.

Good for them. They deserve your job (again not your job personally).

to repeat do you cooperate with your family or do you compete with them?

to repeat do you cooperate with your family or do you compete with them?

An odd question as I’m arguing that people compete and are mobile to provide opportunities for their families. The family is the unit, not the individual.

So be realistic and accept it as a trivial cost that allows us to make a colossal profit. Or, alternatively, demand even more restrictions on student visas which will put even more paying visitors off coming to the UK.

@Northwind – this I will not do.

Immigration is a massive issue not just in the UK but throughout the developed and richer european nations. What is clear is that the status quo is not sustainable. This will be a major issue at the next election.

Where did the money for the holiday come from ?

In my case some of it came from my business where I am ‘competing’ – some of it came from a job working for a charity which is about the exact opposite of competing – community spirit and cohesion.

And you don’t need to spend loads of money to have a great holiday.

No. They’re coming to work. In short, take your job.

If you (not you personally, obviously) aren’t prepared to move half-way around the country, never mind half-way around the world you will lose your job to an immigrant.

Yet again, what a desperately bleak, sad way of looking at the world.

What is clear is that the status quo is not sustainable.

Claptrap. Evidence?

If it weren’t for immigrants, Britain would have very bland and boring food.

Co-operate / compete ? I think the reality lies somewhere in between, there are elements of both. We all have different skills and aptitudes, some are better rewarded than others. A long time ago a farmer with better skills eat better so his family prospered. This concept isn’t new.

Really? Do you think immigrants are coming in search of cooperation?
No. They’re coming to work. In short, take your job.

DUK URR DURR!

is it odd because the answer is you co operate with them and you dont want to say that as it shows that “life is competition” is not universally true.
Your free to disagree but you do get it.
As I said we simply need to get you to extend the cooperation from your family “unit” to the “unit” of humanity as not true that ALL life is competition.

Claptrap. Evidence?

The fact we are having this debate and the amount of time politicians are devoting to it. Immigration policy will change, the recent trend of ever loosening rules will be reversed.

jambalaya – Member
What is clear is that the status quo is not sustainable.

Well that’s that cleared up. As long as you say so.

jambalaya – Member
the recent trend of ever loosening rules

Such as?

Immigration is a massive issue not just in the UK but throughout the developed and richer european nations. What is clear is that the status quo is not sustainable. This will be a major issue at the next election.

You’re almost certainly right, the current limits on immigration will prove unsustainable as the population ages.

no its true because we are debating it – the fact we are saying its not true is irrelevant …….you cannot beat logic like that now can you

The fact we are having this debate and the amount of time politicians are devoting to it. Immigration policy will change, the recent trend of ever loosening rules will be reversed.

Are you **** serious? Politicians, well known for their evidence-based approach to policy you mean? 😆

Politicians are discussing it because they have to pander to prejudiced morons who can’t be bothered to find out a few facts and prefer to believe what they read in the Daily Mail and what their mate Dave down the pub says about how all the immigrants near him get given free cars and mobile phones by the government.

Eg.

7. Immigration and ethnicity: the public think that 31% of the population are immigrants, when the official figures are 13%[viii]. Even estimates that attempt to account for illegal immigration suggest a figure closer to 15%. There are similar misperceptions on ethnicity: the average estimate is that Black and Asian people make up 30% of the population, when it is actually 11% (or 14% if we include mixed and other non-white ethnic groups)[ix].

http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3188/Perceptions-are-not-reality.aspx

The public are massively misinformed about immigration, as they are about almost everything.

By the way I’m not claiming there are no issues whatsoever surrounding immigration – but lets look at evidence rather than tabloid fear-mongering eh?

Such as?

Whole raft of EU legislation and expanding membership to primarily poor countries. I was a big supporter of the EU but it’s currently very badly broken.

I would point out that the “its all ok” camp are currently loosing the argument. The election will show this not the right wing press or a debate on here.

is it odd because the answer is you co operate with them and you dont want to say that as it shows that “life is competition” is not universally true.
Your free to disagree but you do get it.

I get what you’re saying but you’re just playing linguistic games without looking at the context. I’d expect nothing less given the venue.

I’ll simplify what I’m saying.

Immigration is competition.

You can chose to compete on equal terms but if you hope the government is going to prevent the competition you’re going to be in for a shock.

jambalaya – Member
Whole raft of EU legislation

Any specifics?

In fairness i can see your point as well but we can choose to compete or we can choose to cooperate – in general if not in every single scenario.
For example we choose to cooperate when we drive as it is safer and quicker for us all
Be excellent to each other 8)

Whoo hoo contentious debate without name calling …its a first 😉

For example we choose to cooperate when we drive as it is safer and quicker for us all

Careful, you’ll start an argument. You’ll find that car drivers are all trying to kill us cyclists.

jambalaya – Member

the recent trend of ever loosening rules will be reversed.

I am interested to hear of these, since every immigration rule change I’ve seen has been a tightening. What changes did you have in mind?

There is a seperate issue here to be fair, UKBA incompetence and under-resourcing has certainly caused huge problems- backlogs, errors, people passing through borders unchecked who should have been, etc etc. But hey, cuts are required and there is no alternative 😉

The irony is nobody’s really served by some of this- as an asylum seeker it’s a terrible situation, your application (and possible appeal etc) takes forever and in the meantime you’re in limbo, can’t work, can’t put down roots… So it increases the chance of the government losing track of them, and it increases the likelihood of families starting, people taking on illegal work (in the absence of legal work), all sorts.

@northwind – depends on the timescale (i.e. very recently we’ve had tightening) I made reference earlier to EU rules and expansion of membership. Also I think blaming the UKBA is a bit unfair, they suffer from under rescourcing and anti-terrorism takes a huge amount of time and effort.

No specifics then?

There is a seperate issue here to be fair, UKBA incompetence and under-resourcing has certainly caused huge problems- backlogs, errors, people passing through borders unchecked who should have been, etc etc. But hey, cuts are required and there is no alternative

I think you’ll find that it far predates the cuts agenda:

Steve Moxon, Sacked in 2004 by the Home Office for publicly claiming that checks were waived in the cases of migrants from eight eastern European countries by order of the Home Office. Who paid him off rather than have to defend the sacking in a employment tribunal in July 2005.

Neville Sprague, sacked in 2009 and claimed that his refusal to ignore sham marriages was the reason. Still plodding through the Courts….

Is that the same Steve Moxon who got kicked out of UKIP for reckong that there might have been something in Anders Breivek’s thinking that he quite liked?

Linky

Oof. That’s embarrassing.

So jambalaya, still no specifics?

It’s not important to look at actual evidence Lifer – how you ‘feel’ about stuff is far more important.

😆 if it wasn’t so 😥

The good news is that the UK will shortly be a zero unemployment country once there at enough border guards to entire “proper border controls” along its Irish and Scottish borders. There will evens be enough for the the 45% of the population that’s an illegal immigrant!

The fact we are having this debate…

…I wouldn’t use the volume of twaddle on STW as proof of anything, least of all proof of the importance of a subject!

A piece in todays Guardian from Jack Straw, so not exactly the rantings of a Tory in the Right Wing Press – if anyone can link to the original in the Lancashire local paper it might be useful.

Jack Straw says Labour made mistakes on Immigration

In the census 10 years ago Polish didn’t feature in the top 10, now they are second with 500,000 and that just represents those that completed the form. The emergence of such a group isn’t necessarily a problem but the reality shows it is.

What does that last sentence mean?

Still no specifics then?