Rearview Radar – Gimmick or must have accessory?

I see Garmin are now offering the Varia Rearview Radar for road bikes (£240!). If they’ve done their market research properly, these may be flying off the shelves sometime soon. I don’t get it – what am I missing? Anyone got one and can tell me how it’s better than a mirror? And what do you do when you know there’s a car behind you anyway? Is this just a roadie thing?

https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/prod518151.html

Not sure I get it either really. Though this bit did amuse me…

can detect multiple vehicles and indicates the relative speed of approach and threat level

I wouldn’t buy one but I’d like to try it. There’s def been times in the past when a car has “snuck” up on me and I’ve had a wee wobble, normally in winter when I’m wrapped up and riding slow. I think it’d be moar betterer if there was also a small vibrating unit that you could install in your handlebar, maybe you could set the interval it vibrates to say 5 minutes – no cars for 5, vibrates at next one just to give you a wee wake up.

can detect multiple vehicles and indicates the relative speed of approach and threat level

Only sounds useful if it can deploy effective countermeasures.

Not sure what you’d be expected to do with the data either. Car fast approaching, high “threat level”, should I brace for impact, ride into a ditch?

Only sounds useful if it can deploy effective countermeasures.

Need the Garmin Rear Gunner unit.

It wont work properly anyway. Its made by garmin. It may work briefly but then they will update the software and soon stop that. No way would I trust garmin to make a reliable safety device.

DC Rainmaker says he found it most useful on roads where he was going fast and the wind noise made hearing cars harder, and to give him a mental jolt on low traffic alpine climbs where he was concentrating on how much pain he was in.

I would be sort of tempted to know if it is one car or two approaching as I tend to move into the kerb slightly as a car passes then back out from the kerb when it is past me, I have sometimes been surprised by a second car closely following the first.

“It wasn’t my fault I drove into the back of the cyclist officer! He didn’t have a RADAR so he could get out of my way”

Not sure what you’d be expected to do with the data either. Car fast approaching, high “threat level”, should I brace for impact, ride into a ditch?

That was exactly my thoughts.

Surely this just panders to the roadies who cycle with noise cancelling earphones in – gives them a false sense of security that they can be warned of cars approaching which they’d know about if they took out the earphones.

And imagine using it on a commute – it’d be on permanently!

I can’t remember ever being really surprised by a car overtaking me as I can hear them coming.

Surely this just panders to the roadies who cycle with noise cancelling earphones in – gives them a false sense of security that they can be warned of cars approaching which they’d know about if they took out the earphones.

Do you not let deaf people ride bikes in your world?

A radar does seem over the top but when out on my road bike I often think it would be nice to know if something is behind you. Especially when on a downhill and the wind noise is high and you are taking a few more risks. I hate it when something comes roaring past you and makes you jump out of your skin. Normally those pesky motorbikes. Then again all the mirror contraptions look hideous.

So you have to tak your eyes off the road to look at this doohickey to tell you to be careful…”right” 😯 good work garmin!!
Top of my Xmas list…!!

I can imagine that it will be a useful safeguard when turning right (on uk roads). I have poor peripheral vision so my glance over the shoulder needs to be done very slowly in order to process the information. This device should help (but then again, a mirror also works and is considerably cheaper….)

Do you not let deaf people ride bikes in your world?

I distinguish between those who choose to prevent themselves from hearing ambient noises and those who can’t because of medical issues.

The former I consider to be actively doing something which is contributing to an increased risk of accident, the latter have no choice so make no changes to their risk levels.

Do you not consider being able to hear traffic to be a benefit for a rider trying to be aware of their surroundings? I’m sure those with hearing impairments would, in the grand scheme of things, prefer to be able to hear vehicles approaching if they could.

I can’t remember ever being really surprised by a car overtaking me as I can hear them coming.

It’s very rare they surprise me, but I generally can’t hear cars, with wind noise etc. In fact I usually find headphones help as they block out some of said ambient noise.

I don’t get what I do with the information when I hear a car either. I don’t ride down the middle of the road or swerve without looking. Should I get off the road when there’s a car behind me? Does a car sound different when it’s about to mow you down?

sounds like there are not many typical roadie riders on here – it would be next to useless on my commute.

i imagine it will be well recieved by the sunday morning 2s up riders, rolling along chattering and blocking the whole road through ignorance rather than defensive riding

(always love a good headphones argument #lovethechoons)

I don’t get what I do with the information when I hear a car either. I don’t ride down the middle of the road or swerve without looking. Should I get off the road when there’s a car behind me? Does a car sound different when it’s about to mow you down?

As daft as it sounds, I can hear the difference in cars approaching whether they are further out in the road than me or are more in-line.

I normally ride out from the curb, not in the middle of the lane but at least in the left tyre track of cars. I find knowing cars are approaching allows me the option to choose what to do to improve my safety. Often this is nothing, sometimes it is moving slightly to the left/curb if it looks (or sounds) like the car is going to pass close, putting more room between me and the passing car.

Ive watched the DC review and dont think id buy the radar even if it was only £24. If i dont hear the car its very unlikely ill see the notification on my Garmin screen, i already miss the majority of segment notifications on my 520, even when the screen lights up. Might be more useful when a HUD in your glasses becomes more commonplace.

I wonder if it lets you know when you’re dropping the rider behind you in a chain gang? That might be handy.

Technology company tryign to solve a problem which doesn’t exist IMO.

I’d like to take them to task for this claim, which AFAIK is untrue

Getting Hit From Behind Is A Leading Cause Of Cycling Fatalities

. I believe that most collisions when a cyclist is hurt in UK are at junctions – this device would not prevent these collisions.
The fact the statement is given no source tells you they’ve had to make it up IMO and I do think they should be told to stop using it unless they have data to back it up – it just spreads misinformation about how cyclists can remain safe.

The lifesaver and using your ears will serve the function of this device quite nicely. But that’s skills training rather than selling stuff…

IMO massively incentivising people to take Bikeability training would be the best solution to the problem Garmin have identified here…

I think the Cycliq Fly 6 integrated light and camera is a much better option (cheaper too) – at least if an Another Moron In A Car (AMIAC) knocks you off, you may have some evidence. In the meantime, I’ll wait until garmin offer the radar with an option that spits molten lead at tailgaters (or wheel suckers!!!)

Link to Garmin Varia Forum

Most of the moans are about it detecting a vehicle approaching but not when it’s tracking your speed. 🙄

There’s def been times in the past when a car has “snuck” up on me

I have sometimes been surprised by a second car closely following the first.

most useful on roads where he was going fast and the wind noise made hearing cars harder

and to give him a mental jolt on low traffic alpine climbs where he was concentrating on how much pain he was in

I tend to move into the kerb slightly as a car passes then back out from the kerb when it is past me, I have sometimes been surprised by a second car closely following the first.

when out on my road bike I often think it would be nice to know if something is behind you.

You lot effing scare me. The answer to this is not buying a gadget.

IMO massively incentivising people to take Bikeability training would be the best solution to the problem Garmin have identified here…

This, I would agree with.

[swoons @ edlong, the riding god]

Gimmick, I have a knog on the back it flashes all the time, simple hey?

IMO massively incentivising people to take Bikeability training would be the best solution to the problem Garmin have identified here…

Ah yes, of course, the answer to being hit from behind on the open road is training. Training to do what, exactly? Teleport?

(And no, the answer isn’t radar, either.)

So a cars behind me, I do what? If I’m going to make a manoeuvre I look then signal like any other road user

I tend to move into the kerb slightly as a car passes then back out from the kerb when it is past me, I have sometimes been surprised by a second car closely following the first.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/local-news/driver-cleared-over-jesmond-physios-1367013

You lot effing scare me. The answer to this is not buying a gadget.

*swoons also*

How exactly do you figure out if a car is fast approaching from behind if you can’t hear it? Because be honest, you can’t hear them above 10mph. Especially the ones that don’t slow down waiting to overtaking.

Heck the most scared I’ve been on a bike was when a HGV loaded with steel from Redcar came past without slowing with inches to spare.

Cycling into a headwind and didn’t hear a thing.

Do you not let deaf people ride bikes in your world?

The fact that blind people manage to get around doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to walk around with your eyes closed.

None of this really helps when someone drives like a dick. If you’re changing your position on the road then definitely lifesavers, but if someone’s overtaking you it really is their responsibility to make sure it’s safe to do so.

IMO massively incentivising people to take Bikeability training would be the best solution to the problem Garmin have identified here…
Ah yes, of course, the answer to being hit from behind on the open road is training. Training to do what, exactly? Teleport?

(And no, the answer isn’t radar, either.)

Bez – I totally support everything I’ve seen you write so I think we’re coming from the same place on the safety thing for cyclists in the UK. My point is a gadget (being sold on what I believe is a false premise about where the risk to cyclists comes from) is not the solution. It disempowers cyclists by outsourcing the task of basic observation.

The superior solution is proper driving but this is a long term game, which there’s currently not much interest in AFAIK and when I’m on my bike I can’t control a driver’s behaviour.

However, using my ears and eyes to stay aware of risks and giving myself time to mitigate that risk e.g. taking primary, getting off the road, making eye contact etc I can do something about and I can do it right now. All these techniques can be trained and that training is available already.

How exactly do you figure out if a car is fast approaching from behind if you can’t hear it? Because be honest, you can’t hear them above 10mph. Especially the ones that don’t slow down waiting to overtaking.

I’m very, very, very far from being a “riding god” but I can think of a way of detecting things that are behind you that don’t rely on either hearing or radar.

Your hearing is better than mine then.

The vehicles which make me jump most commonly are motorbikes. They usually give plenty of room, but some are just **** loud. I hear them coming, but that doesn’t really help.

I definitely find at 20mph it’s bloody hard to hear traffic. I’m ok with that. In probably 50,000 miles on public roads in London and the south east I have been hit from behind precisely never. Actually that’s not true… a woman tried to squeeze between me and some oncoming traffic once and hit my hand with her wing mirror. Had I known she would do this I still wouldn’t have ridden at full bore into the parked cars beside me…

It is funny how people’s experiences differ. I am genuinely struggling to think of an occasion when I haven’t heard a car behind me wind or no wind. Even a Prius makes a lot of road noise.

I think it’s that I don’t really watch out for them, rather than a specific “not noticing”. There’s virtually always a car passing frankly, I assume they won’t hit me and get on with my ride. I look over my shoulder before I make a manoeuvre, even if I’m convinced there’s no one there.

The superior solution is proper driving but this is a long term game, which there’s currently not much interest in AFAIK and when I’m on my bike I can’t control a driver’s behaviour.

Mm, the better solution is infrastructure of course, followed by interventions on the car, followed by taking crap drivers off the road, but yes.

However, using my ears and eyes to stay aware of risks and giving myself time to mitigate that risk e.g. taking primary, getting off the road, making eye contact etc I can do something about and I can do it right now. All these techniques can be trained and that training is available already.

Sure, and I’m not one to argue against defensive riding[/url], but this is specifically about being hit from behind on the open road. There’s really not a lot you can do about that, no matter how experienced and smart you are, unless you’re going to dive onto the verge at the sound of every approaching vehicle. Yes, you can look round when you do get the chance (though I don’t think eye contact is a feasible strategy here), but it doesn’t often tell you much; you can listen for a falling engine note, but that’s no use in the many cases where there’s no deceleration… Of all the cases I’ve read about where people have been struck from behind on the open road I don’t recall any where they could have obviously mitigated the risk in any way other than simply not being there. Fundamentally, I think we all go out on country roads with the acceptance that today might be the day our number’s up. I know I do: the chance of it happening may be tiny, but—despite a quarter of a century of experience and a lot, a real lot, of thinking about it—there’s simply nothing I can do about it except not be there.

Of all the cases I’ve read about where people have been struck from behind on the open road I don’t recall any where they could have obviously mitigated the risk in any way other than simply not being there

I gather you have a better knowledge of the stats than me, but what % of cyclists getting hurt is from behind rather than the side? I thought the data showed that most incidents were are junctions?

This is why I have a problem with this device – it’s suggesting it’s a solution to a problem that doesn’t really exist, as few cyclists are hit from behind. I also agree with your point that there’s not always a lot you can do when a car does come up from behind – in which case whether the warning comes from your eyes, ears or this gadget, you’re still hit!

If Garmin could link this to a seatpost mounted rearward firing EMP Generator they could be on to a winner.

I don’t know if I’m missing something here, but ISTM there’s already a device available which provides pretty much all the functionality of this for a lot less money: