Race weight

Very interesting stuff, bear in mind though that (it seemed to be anyway) to be firmly aimed at professional athletes/very serious amateurs (e.g. he recommends training at least 6 days a week in the off season!)

My training plan has me training 6-7 days a week all year round, lots and lots of hours in the off season (18hr week) as its just building base (z2). Even Joe Friel says these days in base you don’t necessary need a recovery week.

I’ve still not finished the book, but its interesting. I started eating clean last year. Lost 2.5kgs only Z2 training. Now i’m upping the intensity, i can cope without the need for high GI around exercise time as my body had long enough to adapt to eating clean without stressing it with higher intensity work. When I initially lost 1kg, i noticed the difference straight away when riding with the fast guys on climbs.

To get faster, going out and thrashing yourself every ride isn’t necessarly the most effective way of getting there – i went from cat 4 – cat 2 in one season, i was surprised at how easy a lot of my sessions were…long recovery in between intervals etc.

Slightly off topic but why refer to rides in km

But was that absolutely flat out seeing what power you could put out? I imagine you can manage more than 227w for 7 minutes. Do you use any ‘proper’ software for analysis as you obviously have a power meter?

Dont get too hung up on your average speed, focusing on that is a good way to end up riding at 80% the whole time. Once in a while, do your route you want to do at 32kmh and see how you are going against your target.

Thats pretty much what the Race Weight book suggested. The four weekly weigh in is also a recording of an all out effort on a known / the same route. Its says to measure time but I’ve added power to my spreadsheet as my route include traffic lights etc.

But was that absolutely flat out seeing what power you could put out? I imagine you can manage more than 227w for 7 minutes. Do you use any ‘proper’ software for analysis as you obviously have a power meter?

No power meter, just strava and a garmin…

If I was doing it specificlally measuring FTP / LT yes maybe over 7 mins I could get higher. I’ve been up to 270 on some rides for 2-3 mins so perhaps if there was a focussed effort….

There’s an 8 min fairly flat stretch in there (Lap 5). I’ll repeat that ride Monday, doing z2 up to the beginning of Lap 5 and go blindingly hard for that 8 mins and see what happens….

No power meter, just strava and a garmin…

Then ignore the 227w altogether!

Didn’t realise it graphed the power when you didn’t have a power meter – thought it just did the average on segments!

I’d suggest that’s not going to be accurate enough to use for training porpoises – it’s just based on speed/weight/gradient.

Not sure I’d bother with 8 minute intervals – too short for FTP building, but too long for anaerobic. I personally tend to do 5 minutes or less, or 15-20 minutes. Or rather I did when I actually trained!

I’d suggest that’s not going to be accurate enough to use for training porpoises

Yes I’d imagine that’d be the case too LOL! 😀

Agreed though, but perhaps all being the same i can really try next time and see how it changes.

Yes, and if you do it with a tail wind it’ll make your power even higher!

Fair point.

I used my Powertap and measured it against Strava – Strava was miles out so I wouldn’t bother using it as a measurement. If you’ve only got HR then train with that, much more effective than using a calculated power output based on weight, gradient and speed. So many other variables to take into account.

The racing weight book does make a good read but having read it, it does just seem to be common sense. My coach said that on training days eat what you want, its on the rest days you need to watch what you eat.

Unless you’re looking at top level racing, I (personally) wouldn’t focus too much on your diet as long as its ‘clean’ and healthy – everything in moderation. Cutting out beer helps massively though, if you regularly drink stopping it will shed weight quickly. Winter time do lots of long zone 2 sessions, only starting to ramp up to speed stuff closer to the race season.

Oooh, and sleep. Lots. The recovery side of things is nearly just as important as the training.

Kryton, have you got a turbo trainer? Can recommend trainerroad.com, it can work out power based on cadence for the type of trainer you have. Have tried it alongside my powertap and it’s very good. You can then work out your FTP and base your workouts around that.

Flange – thanks. I only drink on Fridays.

Mr Blobby – no, I had one, got bored and annoyed by the whole spare wheel/cassette/tyre thing and sold it. I have been thinking of reinvesting though as I have lots of space in the man cave to sit and spin.

Know what you mean, I just set up an old road bike as a turbo bike and just leave it like that permanently. Got my power hub and a turbo specific tyre on it. Worth having though. And the trainer road workouts do add an extra dimension to turbo training, not got bored of it yet after a couple of months.

Yeah. Might have to get one and a cheapo wheel to stick a cassette and tyre on – I only have the one bike.

Mr Blobby – no, I had one, got bored and annoyed by the whole spare wheel/cassette/tyre thing and sold it. I have been thinking of reinvesting though as I have lots of space in the man cave to sit and spin.

For quality of training I personally don’t think you can beat sitting on the turbo – although mind numbingly dull. Doing high interval stuff on the road giving it death can be a little precarious if you’ve got your head down and you’re properly going for it. I understand what you’re saying though, it can be a bind if you’ve got just the MTB. They do (or at least used to) sell rim based turbos but I haven’t seen them for sale for a while

what flange said 5/6 posts above.

i cant stand the turbo personally. I used it for a bit after the crash when I could not clip out because my ankle was borked and I was desperate to do something and even with sufferfest I find it hard work. There is no skill, bike handling element to it.

It can be hard to get the kind of structure you need for interval training in on the road though, I am quite lucky living in the sticks in that regard, there is always a suitable interval hill or dig I can spin to.

Winterfold by Alderbrook, then Barhatch, then Ride Way, then Houndhouse is a good one 😈

make the turbo easy. what put me off is not the riding but the 15 mins to get the bike out, change the tyre, move a bike, find a table set up a lap top etc etc.

I got a spare wheel and do intervals based on ipod playlists, just need a bike and ipod now, and finding it much easier to use the turbo 😀

Which race weight book have you got – there seem to be a few?

Which race weight book have you got – there seem to be a few?

Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald.

For quality of training I personally don’t think you can beat sitting on the turbo

I’m short on training time so find it’s pretty much the only way I can get quality work in. You can really focus the workout and avoid the junk miles. Basically use the little time I have as productively as possible (usually late evenings.) Though I do try and get out on the road/trails as often as I can just to remind myself why I do trainer stuff 🙂

Or rather than spend money on an expensive trainer, buy a cheapy one and pick up a knackered/rubbish bike (doesn’t matter what it is, it’ll spend its life on the turbo). Then set it up and it’s always ready to go. Expensive turbos in my opinion are a bit of a waste of money. If noise isnt an option, an old magnetic tacx will do the job and you’ll pick one of those up for £50.

That’ll be me Mr Blobby. A quick scan of sale trainers on Merlin, plus I need a speed/cadence thingy for the bike/my garmin and the wheel is coming in at around 200 notes.

Sigh. And for what, I’m a 40yo dad of two, no Monsieur Wiggo…

When you are 11st 10, 32 kmh avg, looking at an office full of potential heart-attacks and most importantly, dishing out some hurt to 20 and 30 somethings on training rides you will know why

Im still shit downhill on a MTB though 😳

Seriously – don’t spend a lot of money on a turbo. I’ve got a tacx thing (£500+) and a cheapy elite one and they both do the same thing. Have you got an HR monitor?

Well if you are anywhere near west berkshire then I have an old turbo you can have. It’s about 15 years old and the resistance thing doesn’t work, but I’d still be using it now if I hadn’t needed one with variable resistance for mrs blobby. Whatever it was stuck on was fine for me though. It’s an old Tacx CycleForce One.

@ flange – yes a Garmin 500 HRM.

@ MrBlobby thanks for the offer but if I but after having sold one before, I’ll either not bother or I’ll spend the cash and get setup properly with a remote adjust etc.

Can’t find any of the Merlin ones on the traineroad list! This looks good though: http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/training/trainers/elite-trainers/elite-supercrono-power-mag-elastogel-trainer.html

I can use a road tyre on a Turbo right? Just means more wear an tear but potentially is just tyre/chain/casste replacement as if I was riding on the road? Or not?

You’ll have to do a LOT of hours on a turbo to wear out a road tyre. Just get a gatorskin or something cheap.

Don’t bother with cadence – just an HRM will do, you’re only interested in zones and time.

flange – the days of cheap gatorskins are long gone – they cost more than a **** High Roller ❗ £30+

A lithion or cheapest Vittoria for £12 will be fine.

I have the cheapest Tacx thing, it works fine. It was £70ish new a few years ago, I would have thought they are cheap on ebay or your local clubs s/hand list.

Excellent. Might just get a turbo an bang the bike on it then.

Flange are you suggesting to just simulate z2 and intervals on the turbo?

have you got an HR belt for your Garmin?

Google Karvonen method, work out your resting HR, set the HR zones on your Garmin, customise display on your Garmin so you have a ‘turbo’ screen with HR data on it.

See if you can do all that without asking any questions on it 🙂

Then: Do your intervals.

5×3/4×4/3×5 need to be hard, above threshold, heading into zone 5 towards the end and getting it all out. I prefer to do these on the road, on an incline with a ramp at the end, so you can sprint for the top and really max out. But that’s me and being fortunate to have plenty of suitable ramps of varying length and steeps a nice warmup from my house. Others prefer to do intervals on the turbo eg if you live in a town with traffic and lights, junctions etc. Music and Sufferfest help a lot when you’re on the turbo IMO

Btw – as njee pointed out strava power is a bit of a joke.

I did some above threshold intervals on Saturday and Strava was giving me 220-250 watts when I was repeating the same climb within a range of 7s over 4 minutes.

I calculated my power output to be 330W, allowing for headwind. 295W if I ignore headwind. Either way its **** miles out, so ignore it.

If you want to know your power in W, you need a power meter. Strava can tell you if your competitive via the leaderboard on well contested segments. Without being rude, this thread has provided you with enough to worry about without thinking about a powermeter.

Cheers.

Still looking at the Turbo option, but as has been pointed out to me this weekend I am just an office bod with a biking hobby.

Could have used it too – work has knocked out any bike time until Thursday :-/

BTW – Better ride this weekend – I ate over my cals to 3000 on Saturday (still clean food) then 1 and 1/2 portions porrige & wholemeal toast pre ride. Overall (despite headwind on the way back) the fastest/most strava power average I’ve done to date on a club ride.

Holy Smoke.

Mrs K has just come back from the weekly shop, the first one which is more or less 100% “clean” – and a 40% rise in cost.

Yikes, the price of health these days…..

need to start carb loading food wise 2-3 days before not just night before for a long ride

need to start carb loading food wise 2-3 days before not just night before for a long ride

Do you? I thought the point of “carb loading” was just to make sure muscle/liver glycogen stores were at maximum. But since they are extremely limited anyway wouldn’t they be at max just through normal eating anyway, unless you are regularly exhausting them with very long/hard efforts (ooh er)? Which I don’t think people would really be doing a couple of days before a planned long ride?

Mrs K has just come back from the weekly shop, the first one which is more or less 100% “clean” – and a 40% rise in cost.

We found this too although not buying snacky “treats” offsets it to some extent. We have definitely become better at seeking out bargains though – the local Waitrose just before they close often has massive meat/fish discounts!

Last week I rode 40 miles hard on sunday after “dieting” all week (1 z2 ride in that week). I loaded up on Saturday only (3000 cals, 67% carbs according to my fitness pal as opposed to 2300) with a large bowl of porridge oats and 2 slices of toast. I could have done another 10 no problem I reckon, and still had 1 bar and 1 gel plus 1 bottle drink to go.

We found this too although not buying snacky “treats” offsets it to some extent

I’ve found I need to eat a lot more “stuff” on a clean diet. I put Biltong, Kiwi fruit, Dates, parma ham and dried fruit on the shopping list for snacks, maybe thats the difference.

I’m pretty confused as to how anyone can know they’ve lost 1 lb of weight. That’s not much more than half a pint of water.

ormondroyd – Member
I’m pretty confused as to how anyone can know they’ve lost 1 lb of weight. That’s not much more than half a pint of water.

Scales that measure weight / BMI / Fat % /hydration. Not entirely accurate but you can spot trends….