QR vs allen/hex bolt skewer tension…

I’ve searched (here and elsewhere) and read a fair few topics on this, including many ending up with allen/hex key skewers snapping, but I’ve found none that address correct tension (i.e. how you know when a allen/hex skewer is tight enough) using the obvious cup & cone bearing play removal method.

So, with cup & cone hubs correctly adjusted to give some freeplay with a loose QR that tightening the QR removes, how easy is it to remove that same play using a allen/hex skewer?

No one?

I would have thought removing play in a hub is not a particularly precise way of measuring tension.
Surely the bolt up skewers should have a torque setting? You must be doing them up seriously tight if they’re snapping.
Why are you looking to use bolt up skewers? Wheel security or trying to stiffen up the fork / rear end?

You could always go by a generic table of safe torque values if you don’t have a spec and are over doing it if left to your own devices

Use a torque wrench to set and then get a feel for what that is with a hex key or spanner

http://www.tpub.com/content/filters/TM-10-4330-237-13P/css/TM-10-4330-237-13P_105.htm

I would have thought removing play in a hub is not a particularly precise way of measuring tension.

On the contrary, I want to know whether hex skewers are man enough to remove the bearing play that QR skewers easily do. If they snap before that stage is reached, they are obviously worthless.

You must be doing them up seriously tight if they’re snapping.

I never have, I don’t own any. Others have hence my concern and hence this post!

Anyone?

Surely if you’ve got bearing play your hubs are fecked and need servicing?

I have some on my commuter no idea on exact torque [never checked]but i seriously doubt you could snap them in normal use tbh. I would imagine they are at least as strong as QR and therefore think they will be do what you want. I seriously doubt, using a normal length allen key ,you could snap them.
Oh sorry I should have mentioned play and had a go at you, I forgot that bit 😉

I would have thought you could remove play using the bolt skewer a lot easier as you just tighten it gradually, rather than slacken off the QR, tighten the nut a bit etc etc.
If you don’t have any bolt up skewers, why are you asking? Or is it some kind of useful service you provide for the benefit of mankind???

maybee he wants to buy some but wants to know if they will work first …not exactly rocket science to deduce this.
As per above they will do what you want and I doubt you can snap em without levers being used.

Try adjusting your hubs properly!
Removing bearing play with any skewer is daft.

I use these from time to time on the MTB – they’re good and don’t cost much IIRC. I just tighten it up until there’s no play in the wheel within the dropouts – that’s play with respect to the overall wheel sitting in the dropouts, I’m not talking about taking up cup and cone slack or anything like that.
Don’t think I’ve used them with an XT actually, been hope hubs. It wouldn’t be complicated to do the same with cup n cone the way you usually do with a QR.

Try adjusting your hubs properly!
Removing bearing play with any skewer is daft.

Care to explain why in technical terms?

How to adjust cup & cone hubs #1

How to adjust cup & cone hubs #2

Surely if you’ve got bearing play your hubs are fecked and need servicing?

See above

I have some on my commuter no idea on exact torque [never checked]but i seriously doubt you could snap them in normal use tbh. I would imagine they are at least as strong as QR and therefore think they will be do what you want. I seriously doubt, using a normal length allen key ,you could snap them.

A useful reply…I’m going to faint!

OK, cheers for that. The trouble with the hex skewers is that the whole length of the skewers twist during tightening (something that doesn’t happen with a QR) and I’ve read many reports of snapping (just check the CRC reviews) for this reason alone.

If you don’t have any bolt up skewers, why are you asking? Or is it some kind of useful service you provide for the benefit of mankind???

Because I want to buy some, but I’m worried that they may snap before taking up the bearing slack as any QR does perfectly. But then you knew that because you read my first post didn’t you…DIDN’T YOU?

meh, seems an odd thing to be concerned about. You’re worried that they may snap taking up the tiny bit of play in a correctly adjusted cup n cone hub? Just because the whole skewer twists? Don’t understand how this would create such a significant difference.
Tightening an xt hub always involves a bit of trial and error – you’d just apply a similar amount of force with the bolt on skewer as you would with the QR.

Tucker, semi appology there (are these allowed on STW).
The point I was trying to make is that using skewer tightness to adjust cone play is daft. Skewer tightness should be the constant factor with the hub adjustment being the variable. If the skewers are even close to snapping then they are either crap or tightened up by an inept gorrilla.

The trouble with the hex skewers is that the whole length of the skewers twist during tightening (something that doesn’t happen with a QR) and I’ve read many reports of snapping (just check the CRC reviews) for this reason alone.

not sure what you mean tbh i am looking at one now in my hand and it is essentially just a nut and bolt that will fit in a QR hole. i dont really see how you can twist the threaded bolt tbh as it will always just get tighter.
I have read the reviews and tbh I still cant see how this is happening. my bolt is all one so it could strip I guess but there is a 1.75 cm of thread on the bolt so I doubt that. Like say a hope skewer bolt size non QR side.
if you are really paranoid i can send you my front one for you to see and then you can send it back once it allays your fears [ or in pieces if you are string as an ox ].
Those ones look like the bolt may be an insert but i still cant see how i could snap mine tbh.

Thought he was talking about this sort (could be wrong). Allen key in one end tightens them up in lieu of the QR:

he is and i am
the bit to the left is the part you tighten and the bit on the right is the same as a Qr bolt. You hold this whilst you tighten the bolt.
I cant see how it snaps doing this though

The issue is that the threads on the end of the bolt have a certain amount of friction. This will result in a torque on the threads as you tighten, which results in a torque in the skewer. Therefore you effectively have a shear force superposed on the tension force in the skewer which will result in earlier failure than a similar skewer just under tension.

You don’t get this issue with normal skewers because the nut is tightened when not under tension.

I managed to snap one of my Halo hex skewers, but to be fair I’d enormously overtightened it like a ****ing idiot. Also had the wheel fall out once, but then again I’d undertightened it like a ****ing idiot. But taking idiocy out of the equation they’ve been very good, I trust them completely.

TuckerUK, not sure why you’re getting so snotty, but hey ho.
aracer has it, when you tighten up the bolt, it will also twist along its length, which is something QRs don’t have to deal with.
Have you considered converting the hub to a solid axle, so you could just have nuts to hold the wheel in place? That way it would be secure and you could tighten the axle up a LOT.
Or how about some of those security QRs where the lever is removable?

Alternatively if you must use bolt up skewers (you still haven’t said if its for wheel security or to stiffen things up a bit) you could always adjust the bearing tension on the hubs to take account of the possible lesser tension in the skewers.

why will it twist along its length? What force is required to twist 4 mm steel bar that ios in a nut that it rotates within when you apply force?
You seem to be arguing every bolt with a nut in the end is likely to shear [ or more likely that a QR cam]- i know it is capable as anything can break. However I am fairly confident a nut and bolt is a safe design concept for tightnening things up without snapping

TuckerUK, not sure why you’re getting so snotty,

Because the vast majority of posts in reply to my question do not answer the question. Instead they argue about how to adjust hubs and various other things in no way related to the question.

you still haven’t said if its for wheel security or to stiffen things up a bit

Neither. Three of us have to occasionally parks our bikes where QRs have a habit of going missing (apparently the nice black Shimano ones are stolen to replace the cheap and nasty chrome ones found on low end bikes). So, on those days we need to park there, it would be nice to replace the QRs with Hex skewers…if they work.

if you are really paranoid i can send you my front one for you to see and then you can send it back once it allays your fears [ or in pieces if you are string as an ox ].

You sir are a gentleman. Or a fool. I’ll take you up on that if I may? I shall video the test and post it here.

Tucker, semi appology there (are these allowed on STW).

Much semi appreciated old chap.

my e-mail is in profile

The bit that I find snaps is the small lug on the nut end. On front dropouts (with the safety cowl) it is difficult to hold it whilst tightening even with a cone spanner. In terms of the axle I have them very tight and have yet to snap one.

my e-mail is in profile

Details sent.

The bit that I find snaps is the small lug on the nut end. On front dropouts (with the safety cowl) it is difficult to hold it whilst tightening even with a cone spanner. In terms of the axle I have them very tight and have yet to snap one.

Thanks for that sv.

15mm cone spanner fits IIRC. Make sure the lug is where it is supposed to be or you will be wondering why the wheel is sitting off centre 😉

Check 😉

Because the vast majority of posts in reply to my question do not answer the question. Instead they argue about how to adjust hubs and various other things in no way related to the question.

You’ve been a member on here for a while – you should know how it works by now!

Sorry, that didn’t really answer your question either did it? Oops.

He likes arguing I think. Reminds me of Racing Ralph’s attitude.

Sorry, that didn’t really answer your question either did it? Oops.

So you were just posting to be an annoying oik? Oh, how very very clever of you.

He likes arguing I think.

Or as we like to call it, correcting people who are wrong. I don’t discuss subject I’m not qualified in, a rather quaint notion I know. So you’re just another one posting because you like the ‘sound of your own voice’?

For those that just want to post shit and argue over anything, why don’t you start a new thread, and leave this thread for it’s posted purpose? Get someone to read that to you and/or explain it to you if you need.

I’ve offered you several helpful suggestions on this thread. You need to chill a little I think.

Exactly WTF is your problem?

wiggle review shows about 4 or 5 snaps in over 60 reviews. Snappers are way more likely to review so it looks ok

I think the main thing is to lubricate the thread to minimise torque

here is the answer

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/pinnacle/quick-release-skewer-112mm-oe–ec028384?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=froogle&utm_campaign=froogle

quick release with removable lever!

i thought you could get them

cheaper as well!

Or these

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/zefal/lock-n-roll-wheel-skewer-set-ec019057?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=froogle&utm_campaign=froogle

very clever they only release with the bike inverted!

I’ve offered you several helpful suggestions on this thread.

Ah right, like:

I would have thought removing play in a hub is not a particularly precise way of measuring tension.

Why are you looking to use bolt up skewers?

If you don’t have any bolt up skewers, why are you asking? Or is it some kind of useful service you provide for the benefit of mankind???

Have you considered converting the hub to a solid axle,

He likes arguing I think.

Yup.

Exactly WTF is your problem?

Excuse me?

ampthill, thanks for that useful post.

Those QRs would indeed be an idea, but I don’t trust external cam QRs; Shimano enclosed cam(does anyone else even make enclosed cam?) for me.

It’ll take me all of 30 seconds to test the hex skewer Junkyard has kindly offered to loan me, I will video the test because I think some people haven’t got the foggiest what I’m talking about.