Purely hypothetically what's the lightest FS no carbon build?

Just for fun, build me a full suspension bike with no carbon fibre that’s usable as a do it all mountain bike.
I’m guessing it will be short travel, but will it be sub 25lbs, sub 30lbs or greater?*

* I was pondering this whilst trying to decide if spending nearly double the amount to save 100g’s on a pair of handlebars was worth it, & I still can’t decide 😉

You need to be more specific about the type of bike you think is OK for ‘do it all’.

If it’s the XC/Marathon category you’re asking about, then you can certainly buy something non-carbon for under 25lbs. Some people will happily ‘do it all’ on such a bike.

Maybe you need to specify the suspension travel to give people an idea ?

I suspect you’re interested in 140/150mm travel bikes ? Yes, you can achieve 25lbs with that much travel just with aluminium alloys….I can’t give an example, but you can….

Well to me do it all would be a lot less than 140/150mm, but then again how many people can actually ride a DH bike all day on the trail?

So what is it?

I reckon you could do 20lbs if you were very careful, particularly if you went 26″ wheels.

How strict are you being? Technically you can use XTR or XX1/X01 because it has a carbon cage on the mech and carbon shifter paddles? Are you avoiding it on structural parts only, or 100% metal?

– would have to include ZTR Podium/Race wheelset
– Extralite stem and post

Well the idea was no carbon, & there isn’t a lot of stuff available nowadays that doesn’t use it.

Right… No carbon at all.

– Giant Anthem frame (no carbon linkages or anything AFAIK), 26″ wheels
– SID RLT fork
– Extralite hubs, Stan’s Podium rims, Revolution spokes (1100g or so, 1200g with Crests)
– XTR M985 brakes
– New Ultimate alu flat bar (only 600mm, gotta be a wider lightweight option)
– foam grips
– X1 shifter
– XTR cranks
– X1 rear mech
– XX1 cassette
– X11sl chain
– Extralite stem
– Extralite seatpost
– Phenom saddle
– Thunder Burt tyres
– Egg Beater 11 pedals

Reckon that would get you under 20lbs. Definitely the XC persuasion, but it’s a bit of a moveable feast otherwise.

The stock Alu Anthems were well under 25lbs at one point iirc.

Seems likely, they clung onto aluminium for their high end builds longer than virtually any other manufacturer. Hence my suggestion 🙂

Friends had some high end ones which weren’t light, forget how much they were though!

The Liteville 301 is incredibly light for a 160mm alloy full-sus – similar to the all carbon competition and a couple of lbs lighter than most comparable alloy frames. Obviously less ‘enduro’ bikes are available at even lower weight!

The Giant Reign is bloody light too, though not quite as remarkable.

This is probably close to as light as you can go on the All Mountain Alu front, though I’d be a bit nervous hitting a road gap on it:

25lb Liteville 301

Something like a Giant Anthem has a frame weight of 2.3kg for the Al version. Assuming 26″ 1*10 and no dropper

1.6kg is reasonable for alloy wheels.
900 grams for tyres
700g for brakes
250g for saddle
200g for seat post
150g for stem
250g for bars
100g for grips
250g for cassette
800g for crankset
250g for rear much
1.6kg for fork
150g for shifter
100g for headset.
300g for chain
300g for bits I’ve missed

10.2 kg total not sure if I missed anything?

Crisps.

My Anthem was around 22-23lbs and had only a carbon bar. Can’t remember the exact weight as it was a couple of years ago.

Spec was-

SIDS
Stans Olympic rims on Stans hubs
Raceface Deus cranks, stem and seat post
XTR 1×10 drive train with e13 zpxcx guide
XTR brakes

Wasn’t the brief a ‘do it all’ ‘mountain bike’, rather than an ‘all mountain bike’?

Not looked at your figures Rich but I can’t see how you’d get a 22lb bike with that sort of build – something must be missing!

If there is a road gap, will a ‘do it all’ mountain bike be up to the job?

Where is the divide between a ‘do it all’ and an ‘all mountain’ bike?

Marketing men (and ladies) to the forum please!

And what exact date did all mountain bikes become enduro bikes?

Can you still enduro on an all mountain bike and vice versa?

Will a ‘do it all mountain’ bike have correct gearing for an ascent of everest?

How about K2?

How big is the hypothetical road gap to ride on the hypothetical bike?!

Some of these builds look like they might snap if the hit a kerb a bit hard 😉
Do it all really means do all that I do. For some people a cx bike would cover it others a 170mm beast.

With the exception of the stem And post (and tyres given conditions) I’d be happy my hypothetical build would be tough enough for anything I’d ride, and probably what most people do. Stem and post may be tough enough too, not used them, but something scares me slightly about a 70g alu stem and 98g seatpost.

My rigid Scandel 29er with carbon forks/bars/cranks weighs in at about 20bs, I just can’t grasp how a usable FS could get near that 😕

If you want to base the build on something more robust a 140mm Trance is also ridiculously light for an Alu built frame, don’t know how Giant do it, do they have a proprietary blend/brand of Aluminium?

Must surely be possible to do 120/140mm travel at that weight using just Alu and no silly light parts these days?

My old 2004 Intense Tracer (100R/120F) was considered a trailbike then, and might still be to some people, that’s got mostly decade old stuff on it, and a few newer bits and still comes in just over 25lbs so using newer parts (especially wheels!) should be able to knock 4-5lbs off.

But if we’re into ‘handle anything’ territory then it’s might need to be much burlier…

Really does depend on the OP’s version of ‘do it all mountain bike’

My 650b anthem custom build with 120mm sids, XT brakes and 1×10 drivetrain, Thomson carbon bars, ec90 posted, American Classic wide lightening wheels and Nic an Ron tyres weighs 23.5lbs

2unfit- for a start mine had 9% less wheel than your Scandal. And it was build with a keen eye on weight.

I used mine on all sorts- big days in the mountains (admittedly not very technical ones), XC races, mucking about in the woods. I may or may not have fired mine off some doubles as well.

What’s really scary is how quickly the compromises add up…… Take njee20s build and start to make it a little more comfortable/faster rolling 29er etc

You’re adding a pound to the frame, half a pound to the forks, nearly a pound to the wheels (don’t think revs and crests works except for the lightest of riders) and tyres plus moving away from boutique hubs, stem and seatpost and pedals with more support and a more comfortable saddle (for me that is) nearly another pound. Whoops you’re atleast at 24lb.

Would love to do a WW Nicolai TB build but will Liteville produce a ‘proper’ 29er soon?

Also you’re sacrificing a dropper, which for a day to day mountain bike is akin to dropping suspension.

adsh – Member

Would love to do a WW Nicolai TB build

Weight weenie Nicolai is pretty much an oxymoron

A quick search on “World’s lightest road bike” brings up – http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/the-worlds-lightest-bike-36902/ but if we are looking at production bikes then http://www.trekbikes.com/uk/en/bikes/road/performance_race/emonda/ . I’ve seen the latter and it’s both mind bogglingly light and has a weight restriction on the rider! (that’s me out then) It also costs £11k 😯

As others have said, lots of compromises or extra cost to get really light and as njee says a 98g seatpost is slightly scary. With my (lack of) skill level I’d prefer something that’s going to last. Still an interesting concept to mull over.

Also you’re sacrificing a dropper, which for a day to day mountain bike is akin to dropping suspension.

Melodramatic much?

Possible yes, sensible, no.

Why would you build a decent long travel FS, and then fit tyres so lightweight (in order to get down to some nominal and completely arbitrary mass) that you’d never be able to ride it over anything it was capable of riding over?

I’ve got 3 bikes:

1) 100mm “race” hardtail, just 9.8kg. If you so much as look at a sharp flint both tyres burst!

2) 140mm “trail” hardtail – 11.5kg with sensbible mid range weight tyres on. Fine in the UK mostly, but not burely enough for proper DH or the Alps without tyre issues

3) 160mm “All Mountain” Full Bouncer – 12.8kg with chunky tyres, reasonably bullet proof for anything i’ve got the skills/bottle to ride

Any of those bikes could be lighter, but that would always come with a penalty in terms of capability.

continuity – Member
Also you’re sacrificing a dropper, which for a day to day mountain bike is akin to dropping suspension.
POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

Lol, no dropper on my ‘day to day’ HT mountain bike, it is a luxury (a very good one) but a luxury nonetheless.

I ride all over the place with it (Surrey hills, Bikepark Wales, Swinley, Cwmcarn etc) and I suppose I have the saddle an inch or so below optimum pedalling height for any unexpected technical stuff…on uplift days at BPW and Forest of Dean I just drop the saddle down and leave it there, if you can’t ride a MTB without a dropper you’re either very new to this or dangerously inept out on the trails…you should probably be wearing something hi-vis to warn others of your approach.

Weight weenie Nicolai is pretty much an oxymoron

Yeah sad that. Was hoping they’d do a 29er version of the RC with slacker HA and long TT.

A dropper post is in the “really nice to have” category, it adds about 600g over a normal post. I find the dropper is of most use on routes with lots of ups and technical downs, for long XC or bikepacking days then a normal post is fine. But if you are riding in a big group and waiting at the top and bottom of each section then you can just use the time to adjust a normal post accordingly.

Lol, no dropper on my ‘day to day’ HT mountain bike, it is a luxury (a very good one) but a luxury nonetheless.

I don’t even know why you’d want a dropper on a hardtail really, I am on the fence on the issue for my hardtail build. The simplicity of just running a front fork and 1×10 really appeals to me and lately I’ve been riding really well with the seat up.

But if you are riding in a big group and waiting at the top and bottom of each section then you can just use the time to adjust a normal post accordingly.

This, the people I ride with vary quite considerably in skill eg my brother is an ex DH racer so really really fast and we also give each other loads of space. Droppers are just a little easier to use, that’s about it at the expense of weight and reliability. I guess they are great if you don’t want to stop, but stops with chatting and arseing around is part of the way we ride.

What is too light or not may depend to some degree on your weight. Anyone nearer 95kg than 70kg is going to have a different requirement to me.

I’ve a non-stealth dropper on my HT and swapping it for a standard post or vice-versa is simple. At the moment the standard post is in place.

If I’m in a small group then often it’s a case of rolling “stops”, i.e. just go slowly let everyone catch up as the fastest get their breath back. A dropper is useful then. Still a bit of a luxury though.

Tom_W1987 – Member

I don’t even know why you’d want a dropper on a hardtail really

they’re even more awesome on a hardtail than on a FS.

on a hardtail, everytime the rear wheel gets kicked up, the saddle gets kicked up. This isn’t awesome when your saddle is at pedaling height.

on a FS, vertical rear wheel movement is obviously isolated (to some degree) from the saddle.

if i could only have 1 dropper, it would be on my hardtail.

Good point, I haven’t ridden one in anger on really rocky stuff in about 10 years.

I ride a rigid bike with a dropper, which gives you an idea of my (weird?) priorities

I’ve never manually put my saddle down, let alone had a post that does it for me!

that really is nothing to brag about