[Closed] PSA - life hacks...key safe...!

So you have that outside your front door and keep your keys in it? Is it more robust than it looks...?

I have one of these. Never worry about being locked out again ! And dead handy for my cat-feeding person.

I just leave a brick by the kitchen window 😉

Do you also have one of those big grab-rails next to the toilet?

I needn't worry about taking keys out with me, the infinite times I 'lock myself out' are all easily remedied!

The chaotic existance of a circus clown eh? Can't even remember your keys?

's a bloody good job you're not , like a doctor or something. 😀

Most holiday houses/airbnb's I've seen have them. designed so that you can't pry the cover off really.

Can I just say "life hack" is one of the most annoying phrases ever coined. If something's sick, I can get fully pumped and holla at everyone how stoked I am, but "Life Hack" ? **** off. I'm actually shocked that in such a hive or curmudgeonly refusal to adopt new words, this hasn't come under fire already.

To hack something is to break into or overpower a system, usually for nefarious purposes, ill gotten gain or to illustrate a weakness.

Robbing an armoured car, that's probably a life hack. Kidnapping some wealthy person and ransoming them for millions, that's a life hack. Banal tips about recycling old shampoo bottles or elastic bands are tips. Not hacks.

The one I knew about was robust: cast steel, the opening piece sits flush in place. They are quite common.

Riiiiiiiiiiiight

Fitted one to the mother in laws house years back when she started getting dementia and needed to give other people access to the house. Yes they are robust but don't put them in clear line of sight as the wall / safe might get damaged by scroats trying to break in.

They are really useful but don't choose obvious numbers as there are unlimited retries to crack the code. When the neighbor fitted one and forgot the code I had to use my amazing skills to open it.

1066 - Fail
1939 - Fail
1945 - Success

Do you write the code on a piece of paper and leave it under the doormat?

we use them quite a lot to get into elderly occupants homes, very handy saves on new doors every time we come calling.

We get the code on our turnout sheet

hit them with a hammer and they pop apart quite quickly.

hit them with a hammer and they pop apart quite quickly.

So do most doors / windows....

About as secure as a combination lock on a bike and bustable by the same technique.
Put tension on unlock lever, gently press buttons, the correct buttons will have play in them in, you're in.

Think I'll stick with burying a spare key in a zip-lock bag under a special rock somewhere in the garden.

How do home insurance companies feel about these?

I would trust it more if it was recessed in to the brick work.
Looks like a lump hammer would make short work of that.

Would that not void you home insurance?

designed so that you can't pry the cover off really.

Because tea-leaves are the delicate caring type who'll try and get the key without damaging any property? Hammer, wallop, wallop, done.

Having said that, you'd get through the door just as easily with a hammer.

[30 seconds slow damnit]

Don't we all just want to know what DrP's code is?

They are really useful but don't choose obvious numbers as there are unlimited retries to crack the code.

Some also allow you to put the numbers in any order. And no repeats.

That narrows the number of combinations quite a lot.

To be fair a lump hammer would make light work of most doors.

You could lock it in a little cupboard to make it a bit more secure?

😉

Why not just replace your doorlocks with a keypad entry type lock? Same result less faff.

Do you also have one of those big grab-rails next to the toilet?

There was... and a grab rail by the front door!
We gutted the place, built an upstairs (stannah NOT included) and now it's fresh and ready for my kids to wreck...

DrP

Don't we all just want to know what DrP's code is?

Gonna be 999 isn't it?

Curses...
Goes off to change code to something else. Something less 'emergency' but still memorable and likely to result in an ambulance....

DrP

Don't we all just want to know what DrP's code is?

If somebody really wanted to get into my house, there are easier ways. It is not at the front door, and would come off the wall before it would smash open.

And even if they did get in, they would be VERY disappointed. Unless they have always wanted some Heybrook HB1s.

If somebody really wanted to get into my house, there are easier ways

Anyway - If someone wanted to bash their way into our house they'd be able to - if I want to be able to come and go as I please, as well as let the maid, silversmith, and jester in without having to leave the east wing, this is your thing... 😉

DrP

Gonna be 999 isn't it?

No repeats - so the code would just be "9". 😯

Something less 'emergency' but still memorable and likely to result in an ambulance....

So "12" or "91" 😀

You could lock it in a little cupboard to make it a bit more secure?

and move to No 4567 down the road so that way you'd never forget the code

By your front door is a bit daft from a security point of view, but I'd have one somewhere else. Hidden in the garden / on a faraway wall. Unless you have carers (or other people calling when you're not there), there's no benefit in having it next to your front door.

Mind you, keeping a key in a plant pot in someone else's garden is fine as well, providing people don't see you using it / hiding it.

It's sort of security by obscurity.

This thread has been very handy - we have one of these from the previous occupants of the house, but we never knew the code.

I shall be hacking into it tonight with the tips above

To hack something is to break into or overpower a system, usually for nefarious purposes, ill gotten gain or to illustrate a weakness.

I don't want to [i]well, actually[/i] but I'm going to have to. "Life hack" uses hack in the nerd sense where it generally means an ingenious solution to the problem at hand.

By your front door is a bit daft from a security point of view

Pretty standard for access for social services etc for elder people. There must be 1000s installed in each town, by the front door, and no epidemic of burglary via them.

Would that not void you home insurance?

Nope.

Pretty standard for access for social services etc for elder people. There must be 1000s installed in each town, by the front door, and no epidemic of burglary via them.

A lot of old people don't have things that are attractive to thieves - E.g. laptops / tablets / phones / electronics / car keys etc. Besides, if you've got such a wayward moral compass that you're willing to take from elderly people, it's far easier to con them out of thousands of pounds of proper cash.

It's a different equation for a young family. There's probably a fair bit in DrP's house worth stealing, and no 'moral' quandry for would-be burglars.

[i]So our new place was previously the last abode for a very old couple... It had a keysafe near the front door for carers etc etc.[/i]

Same here, but we don't know the code to get into it. So locks have all been changed now and we're left with a useless little grey box on our wall.

I have a young family and our standard security technique is to leave the house in such a state that any intruder will assume we have already been burgled.

And if that doesn't fool them then they'll soon hobble themselves standing on some Lego or a discarded fairy wand.

Same here, but we don't know the code to get into it.

Try? It's really not hard using the technique in that video. Only takes a couple of minutes at most.

(I have done this "in the field" when we rented a caravan and they forgot to tell us the code for the key box)

So locks have all been changed now

Probably a good thing to do when moving in to any new house anyway. You never know who has a copy of the keys for the old locks.

FWIW my grandma and grandad had one of these that was installed for the home help person, we wanted it off the wall before we sold the place, it took one gentle tap with a coarse grade hammer and the entire thing fell apart. Probably faster than putting in the code never mind using that crack. Maybe it was just particularily bad but it was the recommended one.

A lot of old people don't have things that are attractive to thieves

On the contrary, they generally keep money as cash, so are considered good targets.

As has been said - I'd definitely confirm the house insurer was happy with this arrangement (and if they had a list of approved key safes you need to use). Whether or not you think they're as much security as a front door lock isn't the issue if you get burgled, its whether the home insurer policy t&c's allows them to get out of paying up if you used one.

Like it, no ones going to break in if all the burglars think your worldly possessions amount to a carrier bag of broken biscuits, some slippers with zips on and tin of chappie dog food.

Like it, no ones going to break in if all the burglars think your worldly possessions amount to a carrier bag of broken biscuits, some slippers with zips on and tin of chappie dog food.

Have you been round Dr P's as well?

I was quite shocked the first time.....

A few years ago a lady police officer got given a rock with slide off base to hide keys in, we spent an hour hunting round the garden looking for it, with torches, in the dark, before a neighbour called the police, how we all laughed.

Never did find the thing, she needed new keys after.

We use supra c500 Keysafes on client doors for work. Police and insurance approved. You need serious hardware to get into them so you might as well just chuck that same hardware through a window. I have one myself and find it really useful.

We use supra c500 Keysafes on client doors for work.

Turn unlock handle, press buttons, watch for handle deflecting when you press the right buttons.

Done.

We use supra c500 Keysafes on client doors for work. Police and insurance approved. You need serious hardware to get into them so you might as well just chuck that same hardware through a window. I have one myself and find it really useful.

Good shout, just ordered one!

Hidden in the garden / on a faraway wall.

You could of course do the same with an actual key to your house.

Here's another nice video of a dirty-fingered weegie casually figuring out the code and opening on one of those "high security" Supra C500 locks in roughly sixty seconds. (Watch from 4:40)

Personally I wouldn't touch them.

He might struggle with that technique when its mounted on a wall as it will be harder to get the vibration feedback he used to crack it.

I think he is using the same technique as in the first Supra C500 video, feedback on the unlock handle. Except he does it by touch instead of sight - which is better for burglars as it can be done in the dark.

About as secure as a combination lock on a bike and bustable by the same technique.

We have one at work, the only people who knew the code had left the company. I sprung it in maybe 20 minutes using the 'bike lock' technique. Using a shim to 'feel' the wheel positions though I can pop it in about ten seconds.

If you're going to have one, mount it out of sight.

Except he does it by touch instead of sight - which is better for burglars as it can be done in the dark.

Pretty sure no one has ever used this in anger, most burglars are just opportunist and force their way in. After all, a decent locksmith can pick any lock, but it is never used for domestic burglary.

Great show of lock picking skills here: http://www.safe-cracker.co.uk/safe-opening-gallery01.htm

Just cancelled my order for the C500. Chap at Keysafe did say they've changed the design to circumvent that method, but I'm not wasting £60 to find out.

Would that not void you home insurance?

Nope.

I would be extremely wary of assuming that it would be acceptable to an insurance company (and similarly be very wary of any product with the blanket assertion that it is 'insurance approved' - what insurers will accept can vary greatly between companies, and the fact that one insurer may have accepted something (possibly only in a very specific application/circumstances), does not mean it is always going to be acceptable to the same insurer or others.

My first advice would be to check your household insurance policy: many of them now state that doors must be fitted with locks meeting the relevant British Standard (usually easily identifiable by a Kitemark on the lock) or be of an equivalent standard, e.g. the multi-point locks fitted to many UPVC doors don't meet the British Standard (or didn't when I last looked) but are obviously widely used and generally accepted by insurers.

These key safes will provide much lower levels of security than the British Standard, and I suspect that there is a real risk that an insurer that was faced with a claim where a burglar gained entry by breaking open a key safe to get hold of the keys, would turn down the claim. I certainly would not chance it.

Note that the use of the keysafes by elderly or infirm people who are completely housebound, and therefore will always be in the house, is not the same as an unattended house. Even though the occupants could not be expected to put up resistance if anyone broke in, the fact of their presence is still a deterent, and any such claim would be for robbery, rather than burglary, i.e. the risk is little different to a situation where a scrote knocks on the door and then elbows their way in when the occupant opens the door.

My missus had one of these (left over from when her parents owned the place - they thought it might be handy one day, just in case...) & it definitely voided her insurance - I told her to double check the policy wording & there was a section specifically regarding key safes, can't remember if there was anything regarding the visibility of it, but hers was right next to the door... 😐

I removed it fairly easily with a handy blunt axe, which was lying about 3 feet away...

All this talk of lump hammers, picking locking locks by touch and various vulnerabilities of the location of the keysafe I use. The reality is that half the time I don't even lock my front door!

I removed it fairly easily with a handy blunt axe, which was lying about 3 feet away...

So the real vulnerability there was not the key safe but the blunt axe. That same axe would very easily break a window.

My first advice would be to check your household insurance policy: many of them now state that doors must be fitted with locks meeting the relevant British Standard (usually easily identifiable by a Kitemark on the lock) or be of an equivalent standard, e.g. the multi-point locks fitted to many UPVC doors don't meet the British Standard (or didn't when I last looked) but are obviously widely used and generally accepted by insurers.

Given you'll struggle to buy one (in the UK) which isn't approved, this is pretty trivial to meet.

These key safes will provide much lower levels of security than the British Standard, and I suspect that there is a real risk that an insurer that was faced with a claim where a burglar gained entry by breaking open a key safe to get hold of the keys, would turn down the claim. I certainly would not chance it.

Unless it's specially prohibited by the policy, you'll have a valid claim.

That same axe would very easily break a window.

True but breaking a (probably double-glazed) window is loud, very suspicious and leaves an obvious external sign that someone is currently robbing the house.

Fiddling with a key safe for less than a minute and then opening the door with a key is pretty discrete. Pretty low chance that anyone would notice and even if they did they might not think it suspicious. Especially if a lot of visitors use the key safe.

I think the best solution is a very obvious key safe, right next to the door, with a primed concussion grenade inside 😀

we have one as i got fed up with the teenage antigee offspring losing front door keys and ending up sitting on the doorstep - i'm usually at home but useful on the odd day when not or running late

now I know it's a lifehack will have to reconsider or get with it and sort my sh1t

They're really not very secure at all dead easy to work out the combination, no loud banging or glass shattering to alert others.

I think the best solution is a very obvious key safe, right next to the door, with a primed concussion grenade inside

Or just wire it to the guts of a cheap tazer bought off Amazon 😉

I'd have a concealed one at home, but not in plain sight.

I've never heard of one getting broken into, but they scream vulnerability to me.

Best in plain sight for carers though, it's amazing how often you don't get given the relevant info. Add in a dodgy phone signal and your stuck.

I'm possibly going to get something like that.

Do you also have one of those big grab-rails next to the toilet?

We have one of those. We keep it out of sight, but importantly where it's illuminated. So you can see what you're doing at night.

Maybe talk to your neighbours and get them to fit one to but you have the combo for and keep your key in the one by their door

I've never heard of one getting broken into, but they scream vulnerability to me.

At that is the crux of it. through work we install around 200 per year and have around 1500 out and about in the local community and I am not aware of one of them ever being broken in to or used as the security weak point to enable a burglary.

Perhaps that is more of a reflection on the low crime in our local area but I still think it is a pretty good evidence base.

"Maybe talk to your neighbours and get them to fit one to but you have the combo for and keep your key in the one by their door"

or you could just park up outside each other's houses and crack on with it

Perhaps that is more of a reflection on the low crime in our local area

Could also be an example of confirmation bias though:

you're not aware of any of the 1500 keysafes being used during a burglary, but how many non-keysafe related breaking & entering burglaries are you aware of at the same properties?

franksinatra - Member

So the real vulnerability there was not the key safe but the blunt axe. That same axe would very easily break a window.

Ahaaa - but it's an upper cottage flat so they'd need to bring a 20ft ladder to get to those in the first place 😉

The axe was actually the neighbours - he'd been out [s]cutting[/s] mashing firewood into splinters with it earlier & I couldn't be bothered going back upstairs for anything less appropriate to tackle it with.

I leave my key outside the front door, not even in a box... but like DrP, I live in the south. 😆

If you lived in the north then you'd be friendly enough with your neighbours to leave a key with them 😉

True but breaking a (probably double-glazed) window is loud, very suspicious and leaves an obvious external sign that someone is currently robbing the house.

You would wouldn't you? Our neighbours were deaf to the rear double glazing being put in on a small window one Sunday night. House one

They all missed our car being shunted 20m down the street during morning traffic too.

At house 2 they all missed the noise of some youth putting a brick through the leaded light on the front door one mid-week night. The partially deaf neighbour saw the damaged window in daylight and reported it. Worst Centre Parc holiday ever. (We were in Elveden when it happened).

Neighbours don't hear or notice much normally, unless they happen to see it go down.

I leave my key outside the front door, not even in a box... but like DrP, I live in the south.

That explains why you need to lock your door.

At that is the crux of it. through work we install around 200 per year and have around 1500 out and about in the local community and I am not aware of one of them ever being broken in to or used as the security weak point to enable a burglary.

That's possibly because there's weaker points. Euro-cylinder locks, for instance.

Euro-cylinder locks, for instance.

Are they weak points Cougar?

[url=

know they can be picked with some skill[/url] (as can pretty much all locks), but as others have said burglars very rarely pick locks.

Cheap euro cylinder locks are incredibly easy to break into. They don't need picking, you just need a battery operated drill. We learned the hard way. Now we have these:

http://www.brisant-secure.com/ultion.php

And these:

http://www.euro-secure.com/milaprosecure.asp