Prince Andrew, what a cowardly little ****.

I can’t help but having a fascination to seeing how this all plays out having spent around 5 hours in his company on the golf course a few years ago (me caddying)… I think I posted about it in the early pages of this thread.

At the moment it’s just *his* reputation that’s in tatters. But if this goes to court it’ll extend to the whole royal family and, by extension, the country.

That is quite an extension you’ve built there! The UKs reputation is arguably in tatters anyway, and the Royal Family is an embarrassment to a huge part of the population who’d gladly see this finish them off so we can move on.

Maxwell’s lawyers going for a retrial.

One of the jurors has gone on camera and said he was a victim of (unrelated) abuse….and how relating that to the jury influenced their decision…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59884806

IANAL but doesn’t part of being tried by your peers include them using their own life experiences to inform and educate the other members of the jury.

I get that if the complaint was one of ‘I was abused as a kid, therefore I want this person convicted’ but it’s not, it’s more like ‘In my own lived experience, the description of how memory works and remembers parts vividly and not others is completely believable’

Maxwell’s lawyers going for a retrial.

One of the jurors has gone on camera and said he was a victim of (unrelated) abuse….and how relating that to the jury influenced their decision…

I read that the jurors were asked if they were victims of past abuse anyway. So this question was already resolved. My main concern would be that the juror in question courted publicity and possibly earned money for an interview after the trial. It could thus be argued that he was incentivised, after the fact, to find a guilty verdict. It’s all very dodgy on the face of it and that juror is an utter fool for seeking publicity.

For those familiar with Jim’ll Paint It

IANAL but doesn’t part of being tried by your peers include them using their own life experiences to inform and educate the other members of the jury.

Yup sees bizarre that having relevant life experience that helps the jury make a more informed decision can be presented as a bad thing.

If a John Grisham novel I read years ago is to be believed though the whole process of jury selection etc in America is pretty nuts and involves lots of ‘political’ trading around race/gender etc.

I’m sure it goes on all around the country on a daily basis. A creepy older guy plying young women with gifts on the understanding there will be a return in the form of sex?

1. young women? or girls?
2. and what are the consequences if the young woman decides no I don’t want to do this today – is it simply that the “gifts” are not going to be showered upon her?

Sure, it’s super-distasteful. But is it illegal?

Well potentially it is. Ignoring any question of being above or below a particular age of consent, or even seemingly consenting in the first place, if there is coercion then there’s probably a criminal issue. Trafficking, even of adults is likely an issue. BUT it’s a civil case, I’m not convinced his actions actually need to be illegal for the court to find he has a liability.

For the prince it doesn’t really matter since the main risk to him is damage to reputation. At the moment it’s just *his* reputation that’s in tatters. But if this goes to court it’ll extend to the whole royal family and, by extension, the country.

I actually can’t see how his reputation will be that much worse if it goes to trial. 90% of people will already have made up their mind and be in the “Andy’s a perv” or “if you were in his shoes and its being handed to you on a plate you would, and anyone how says otherwise probably just hates the monarchy” types).

I actually can’t see how his reputation will be that much worse if it goes to trial. 90% of people will already have made up their mind

Very much this.

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/for-sale-ski-chalet-one-royal-perv-owner-20220107216054

I would love to know where an unemployed bloke ever got the money to buy a chalet in the first place.  I don’t think a navy pension stretches that far

He’ll get the money where the rest of the monarchy get it from, the public purse, we live in a world where folk who are descendants of people who robbed/killed/favoured their way into land and fortune still have that land and fortune, and even more benefits over the years.

bwahahahhahhahahhha

Breaking : The Duke of York will face a civil trial in America over sexual abuse claims after a US judge dismissed Prince Andrew's attempt to have the lawsuit thrown out.

— Krishnan Guru-Murthy (@krishgm) January 12, 2022

Noooice!

He apparently flogged his Verbier chalet too which was a nest egg for his kids, so hopefully they’ll hate him even more too.

I get that this moves things on to deposition and discovery, but how do they actually compel him to get involved (being a civil case)? Don’t get me wrong, if he doesn’t get involved now he just continues to look even worse but I’m just not sure of the mechanisms

So I presume Andrew doesn’t have to attend the court hearing and can be tried without being there? He can just say he believes he won’t get an unfair case so not go?
The worst that will happen is he will get a fine that the tax payers will be paying for anyway?
Apologies if this has already been covered?

Civil case, he doesn’t have to turn up, just his lawyer.

Andrew, meet the real world.

If he fails to respond to requests for discovery, depositions and so on the sanction would be either that he is not allowed to give evidence at trial or that judgment is entered against him (depends on the nature of what he didn’t do).

Accident in either the Dartford or Rotherhithe tunnel in 3,2,1. . .

Can anyone tell me what redress she’s actually after? Is it a confession of rape, or is there a stated figure (which is also presumably the cost of her dropping the case)?

I think she wants to ruin him.  Thats my guess.  she got half a million off Epstein.  I don’t think its money although if he offers enough as a settlement she is pretty much obliged to take it

But she wants to see him ruined both financially and reputation wise

Can anyone tell me what redress she’s actually after? Is it a confession of rape, or is there a stated figure (which is also presumably the cost of her dropping the case)?

I know in the US system if it’s not in the criminal court you can only win by getting a pay day (and the bigger the pay day the more your case was seen to have been won) but I really really hope it doesn’t spiral into making her looking like it’s all about the cash. I’m guessing his team will be trying to paint her that way.

It’s my ignorance, but I’ve no idea how she ended up where she was at 17. You’d have thought most parent’s alarm bells would have been ringing like hell long before. Was she in care or have a super dysfunctional family?

Her back story is covered a bit in the Netflix programme, Filthy Rich, I seem to recall. It been a while since I watched it but it was pretty sordid stuff. Money, power, corruption, seediness.

What happens if he doesn’t turn up in any form – himself, his lawyers…. just ignores it.

It’s my ignorance, but I’ve no idea how she ended up where she was at 17. You’d have thought most parent’s alarm bells would have been ringing like hell long before. Was she in care or have a super dysfunctional family?

Not really ignorance in that sense but not unusual for kids to go walkabout or live via friends outwith their parents, and the family lifestyle can play no part.

I was off on my own aged 16, hitchhiking around the country, living here, there and everywhere from the far north to the south coast, wales etc etc. It was about 3 years before i came back to the home city. I didn’t leave the social work system till about 21. In that time i was still technically homeless.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/12/prince-andrew-virginia-giuffre-case-court-trial-testimony-what-happens-next

Has been reported in US media and on 5live recently that Giuffre has said she will not accept an out of court settlement and is determined this goes to court.
Also reported in US that she rejected a proposed $5 million settlement.
How long before the queen finally cuts him out?

Now it’s going ahead i can’t see how Andrew’s side can win, maybe i’m missing something, but that interview is going to sink him, all the opposition need to provide is reasonable doubt, they have a photograph to show time and opportunity, all they need is to do a bit of a song and dance in court and throw doubt on all the claims in that interview, and that’s not even seeing if there’s other evidence?

Can’t see Andrew being allowed anywhere near the court, this is a civil case, but perjury is still a criminal act!

all the opposition need to provide is reasonable doubt

It’s a civil case so “Preponderance of the evidence” in US speak i.e. a lower standard than for a criminal case

How long before the queen finally cuts him out?

Isn’t that what the chalet sale is all about too, liquidising the assets so the money can be stashed and he can claim no assets to pay the anticipated massive compo claim.

Chalet sold for £17 mill, reportedly; £6 mill to clear o/s debt to previous owner; any mortgage to clear?
Reported that his legal and PR fees are running at c£3 mill.
If mummy says…you’re on your own, he’s stuffed.
In truth, he’s stuffed whatever happens.

Edit: money trail should be easy to follow so attempts to hide cash or other assets will probably be futile.

Murray
Full Member
all the opposition need to provide is reasonable doubt

It’s a civil case so “Preponderance of the evidence” in US speak i.e. a lower standard than for a criminal case

Yeah, i put up the wrong one to try and show it’s a lesser requirement for the evidence, luckily i’m not in court giving evidence with that ability out of a 50/50 choice!

Whats incredible is they are claiming the deal that was struck between the victim and Epstein where compensation was paid, means Andrew is covered, even though he wasn’t there, has never met,nor had sex with the girl.

I know in the US system if it’s not in the criminal court you can only win by getting a pay day (and the bigger the pay day the more your case was seen to have been won) but I really really hope it doesn’t spiral into making her looking like it’s all about the cash.

Whatever she gets (assuming the case goes her way) a big slice of the pay out will go to, yes you guess right, the lawyers. For the lawyers this is a case that they can make millions! Millions! Why do you think she can afford their fees?

It’s my ignorance, but I’ve no idea how she ended up where she was at 17. You’d have thought most parent’s alarm bells would have been ringing like hell long before. Was she in care or have a super dysfunctional family?

Does she look like she was forced? Did anyone put a weapon to her head to “perform” the favour? She was 17 at that time and of legal age so yes it does not look good for Andrew but look at Courtney Stodden aged 16 at that time married then 51-year-old actor Doug Hutchison in 2011. Now that is weird. If you search online of celebrities/stars that behaved like Andrew there are plenty about and many of them are still alive today. I reckon they should all go to court no matter how popular they are now or then.

His only option might be to tap-up some of his wealthy mates, like his Kazakh friend he sold his Sunninghill House for well over asking. The problem is the Kazakhs might be busy dealing with something else.
Regardless of what Guiffre’s motives were/are, she was trafficked and there’s still statutory rape.

Regardless of what Guiffre’s motives were/are, she was trafficked and there’s still statutory rape.

Trafficked? I don’t understand how that could happen unless she was forced or kidnapped. If it happened once, yes, I think she might be trafficked etc but it happened more than once so I don’t understand why she was there again alone with those people.

Does she look like she was forced? Did anyone put a weapon to her head to “perform” the favour?

Did you have to attend a special training camp to become this offensive, or are you just naturally talented?

Trafficking as in the type that Ghislaine Maxwell was found guilty of this month.