never understood why his ever present police escort cant just come forward and confirm dates and locations for, say, Pizza Express visits. That’d put this thing to bed once and for all, and Andrew would be free to go about his business without these distractions.

he really is an utter fool.

No argument on that

^^I agree vinnyeh and I suspect we know why.

Its obvious his security/ protection has a broad view of their remit.

How far can a really good nail gun shoot a nail?

I would guess a shorter distance than the royal protection officers handgun can shoot a bullet.
You would need a really, really dedicated person to deliver that indictment.

Its obvious his security/ protection has a broad view of their remit.

MBE’s all round and a strong former employer in your corner when you want to get into ‘that’ golf club.

💰🍾🥂💂‍♂️

Lets look at the facts, Epstein threw private parties for the wealthy elite and supplied them with everything that entails including absolute secrecy and sex, and Prince Andrew went.

Epstein may well have stitched him up, he was after all a master manipulator and it wasn’t only Prince Andrew for sure, but he was there, and he went back for more, and we all know why.

Avoiding the serving of legal papers does not exactly give a good impression…

Avoiding the serving of legal papers does not exactly give a good impression…

100% this

Does he not have PR people advising him?
IIRC his or guy quit b4 the maitliss interview

he went back for more, and we all know why

Do we? Or can we just jump to another conclusion? If we know then why are we bothering with a trial?

Alternatives could include him being coerced to attend a “chit chat” with evidence of a setup held over him. Perfect target really. Would also explain why he would be so keen to avoid any trial.

Not saying that’s what happened but it’s just one of many possibilities other than what the tabloids are punting. This is why we have due process.

This is why we have due process.

Some of us do…

Lets look at the facts, Epstein threw private parties for the wealthy elite and supplied them with everything that entails including absolute secrecy and sex, and Prince Andrew went.

Thats a great case against Epstein…not Andrew. I’ve been at plenty of parties where illegal activities took place. I didn’t partake but despite that does that make me guilty by association?

You may not like Andrew but the fact you can place him at the scene of a crime doesn’t make him complicit or culpable. Where is the evidence?

Were you photographed with your arm round any seventeen year old girls at these parties who are now accusing you of rape?

For the record I’ve done illegal things at parties but not nonconsensual sex with girls 24 years my junior whilst being married with children. Cos that’d be (more than) a bit **** up.

Were you photographed with your arm round any seventeen year old girls at these parties who are now accusing you of rape?

Really??? that is the basis of your accusation?? How does a photo of him with his arm around a girl proof beyond all reasonable doubt he had sex with her?

Were you photographed with your arm round any seventeen year old girls at these parties who are now accusing you of rape?

Not these specific parties of course…but I’ve been photographed with plenty of women and girls over my life that I’ve not had sex with. So you’ve only been photographed with girls and women you’ve had sex with??

Its obvious he is up to his neck in slime. He has clearly been an utter shit. Criminal? Thats for the courts to decide. If he was truely innocent his security logs would show it

This is a civil suit because in the US a time limit was about to run out. If Guiffre had not put the suit in now she would have lost all right to do so

Dirty sleazy slimeball and I hope he gets whats coming to him

Dirty sleazy slimeball and I hope he gets whats coming to him

No arguments with that…but he should get what’s coming to him within the confines and rules of law.

The accusation of rape is not and should not be an assumption of guilt. The overarching rule of law in that you are innocent until proven guilty should be protected at all costs. If not then anarchy will follow. I realise this presents difficulties that need to be addressed with those who are genuine victims with all the known difficulties of them coming forward and pressing charges…but innocent till proven guilty is a cornerstone of our society that should be protected and not handed over to the media to manage and control.

The implications and consequences of an innocent person being wrongly convicted absolutely outweighs the consequences of the odd guilty person slipping though the net…assuming you acknowledge that 100% accuracy of convincing only those who are guilty is but a pipe dream. If you get 99% then the it as good as we can expect.

“So you’ve only been photographed with girls and women you’ve had sex with??”

Yes but then I’ve only ever been photographed at paedo billionaire’s Jeff Epstein’s island and Ghislaine Maxwell’s flat on my whooooole life

Yes but then I’ve only ever been photographed at paedo billionaire’s Jeff Epstein’s island and Ghislaine Maxwell’s flat on my whooooole life

Was Prince Andrew the only person ever to attend one of Epsteins parties during the ’80’s or whenever he was active? Did everyone who attended his parties indulge in what was on offer? (I don’t know). My understanding is his parties were pretty legendary amongst the ‘party set’ of the era….so why is only Andrew being singled out as the only person ever to partake in the ‘services’ on offer at his parties? He was a bit of a playboy in his time and attended alot of parties…where are the accusations of rape from all those other parties??? Where are the other accusations against all the other people famous or not who attends Epstein’s parties? Other celebrities…politicians….business people, others of wealth and power?

Andrew is a slime ball…I’m not arguing at that but all I’m saying is where is the evidence? Maybe its not been made public due to the ongoing allegations and legal action…fair enough. A random photo is not evidence… I could fabricate a photo of me with Marilyn Monroe even though she died before I was born… its irrelevant. If that is the only evidence the case is built on then it pains me to say…. so what?

@convert

Sorry, not too up on getting sued – but does the UK system also rely on a shady bloke hanging around waiting to pass over a few bits of paper in a provable way before the show can start? Seems a bit of a crap system where being a bit rich and ellusive with big gates and walls can make stuff get kicked down the road that easily.

To some extent it does – it’s only reasonable that for a court case to proceed in your absence you’ve been made aware of the case and all the details.

It’s a tactic used not just by those at the very top of society, various dodgy small ltd co’s try to dodge claims by denying service and some even engineer things to make it likely people serve on the wrong entity. Whilst in criminal matters people will often try to evade service for matters with a time limit or in the vague hope someone will get bored.

Service doesn’t usually have to be in person, it can be served on someone else in the household, by fixing to the door as thegreatape says or even just by post (usually recorded but some documents are deemed served by 1st class post). There can certainly be legal technicality arguments about if/when something was served but given the purpose of ensuring service is to make sure you are aware of proceedings, unless there is some time limit all you usually do is buy time as by appearing to dispute the matter you can be served in person (or on your solicitor). It seems very unlikely Andrew can claim he is not aware of the proceedings?

I can’t recall when serving internationally if the service needs to be to the standard of the recipients country or the country where the action is taking place. That’s the sort of detail the lawyers earn their money knowing and keeping everyone right on.

Were you photographed with your arm round any seventeen year old girls at these parties who are now accusing you of rape?

Don’t accept any photo published by the media as fact, it’s so very easy to fake photos with photoshop; I know because I’ve done it, placed a person into a group photo who was absent on the day the photo was taken. It’s even easier when it’s flash-lit with a dark background.

Andrew is a slime ball…I’m not arguing at that but all I’m saying is where is the evidence?

The evidence has come from the girl involved, whom the prosecution know was below legal age. What other type of evidence are you talking about ?. Hidden cameras, testimony from staff, Andrews personal guard, who we all ready know arent taking, given they know whether he was in pizza express or not and haven’t spoken or reported on it, and the staff and customers dont remember seeing him. And he’s quite a high profile face.

Honestly mate, I think you’re trying to flog a dead horse here.

If anyone has Netflix and hasn’t watched the Epstein documentary I’d recommend it, it touches on the Andrew issue including an eyewitness confirming Andrew was on “Pedo” Island cavorting with a topless Giuffre.

It’s also interesting that the British consulate in NY went on record that there was no record of a stay that Andrew includes in his Pizzagate interview.

My view is he’s had sex with her, in locations where she was below the age of consent which is considered rape and is seeking to minimise the damage.

I consider that I do not have access to all the evidence and look forward to Andrew doing the ‘honourable’ thing and defending his reputation.

Avoiding service would simply seem like an attempt to avoid clearing his name.

Don’t accept any photo published by the media as fact, it’s so very easy to fake photos with photoshop

It’s also very easy for experts to detect the use of photoshop.

The accusation of rape is not and should not be an assumption of guilt. The overarching rule of law in that you are innocent until proven guilty should be protected at all costs. If not then anarchy will follow.

+1

I also don’t understand at all why people on here are so upset about it all. Personally, at best I feel mild indifference to the whole situation. There’s an accusation of rape, the police / CPS don’t have enough evidence to prosecute and a writ is being served for a civil case. There are probably 100s of rapes every day which never get to court and no one seems very bothered about those – certainly don’t generate any threads on here. Why so concerned about it all now?

Epstein, as vile as he was, seemed pretty intelligent and cunning. Andrew is clearly a bumbling idiot (and possibly pretty vile too).
Judging from pieces like this https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/hedge-funders-have-some-thoughts-on-what-epstein-was-doing.html it seems likely he was blackmailing a lot of rich and powerful people, and from what we know so far, it seems pretty likely that it would be easy for Epstein to have dirt on Andrew.

Hopefully all of Epstein’s “evidence” will see the light of day, but in reality I imagine a few less powerful individuals will be sacrificed, to detract from the untouchable few.

Why so concerned about it all now?

Says the guy who’s so unconcerned by it all he’s made sure to post several times in this thread to let us know how unconcerned he is.

Why so concerned about it all now?

The average rapist isn’t often a millionaire whose lavish lifestyle is directly paid for by the tax payer and who’s lofty position in society is solely down to an accident of birth conferring status.

The issue of the alleged crimes should definitely be decided by due process in court but there appears to be plenty of evidence of terrible judgement and very shady goings on that reflect very badly on his character.

plenty of evidence of terrible judgement and very shady goings on that reflect very badly on his character.

That’s part of his problem, innocent or guilty he seems to blunder from one PR disaster to another

Whoever his advisors are, they’re not the best

The average rapist isn’t often a millionaire whose lavish lifestyle is directly paid for by the tax payer and who’s lofty position in society is solely down to an accident of birth conferring status.

If all the (justified) vitriol on this thread was applied to support all the poor women who get abused by “nobodies” rather than saved up for this waste of Royal space, the world might be a better place.

If only it was possible to care about more than one thing at a time eh?

That’s just it though. Sexual crimes are notoriously hard to prosecute.
A few high profile convictions will be good to possibly deter potential offenders who are ‘nobodies’.

I also don’t understand at all why people on here are so upset about it all

Because we paid for it, we pay for his luxury lifestyle and we paid for him to fly the globe doing whatever he was doing. Yet, despite, that, he is absolutely devoid of any humility. He absolutely, completely and without hesitation thinks he is better than us and above the law. His smirking arrogance and sense of entitlement is off the scale. More so than that though, a victim has come forward and she has the right to be heard, and he has the right to defend himself. Hiding behind royal privilege does nothing to help either party, except to perhaps make him look more guilty.

Incidentally, when I was a kid we lived next door to Daily Mail photographer. Apart from his choice of employer he was (is) a great guy and still really good friends with my dad. I remember him frequently talking about Randy Andy around 30 years ago, even then it was an open secret.

On the 9/11 anniversary, Rudy Giuliani gets sidetracked and denies hanging out with Prince Andrew.

“I never went out with him! Never EVER! Never had a drink with him. Never was with a woman or a young girl with him. Never ever ever.”
pic.twitter.com/ds4YHrOTYJ

— Jan Wolfe (@JanNWolfe) September 12, 2021

“never understood why his ever present police escort cant just come forward and confirm dates and locations for, say, Pizza Express visits” Their silence is telling too: either they aren’t ever-present and don’t know where he’s been (which is a security risk that I think they are cagey about/guilty of) or they do know he was there.

US prosecution should ask the question, is this another one that comes back to Cressida Dick ?

Says the guy who’s so unconcerned by it all he’s made sure to post several times in this thread to let us know how unconcerned he is.

What does concern me is the whole lynch mob mentality and the general enthusiam to forget due process. I think due process is something very important and worth defending, without it we’re just back to lynching the first person we don’t like (black, gay, disabled, muslim, royalty) etc for every crime. As for the defendant and accused, don’t know them from Adam, so yep, pretty indifferent.

That’s just it though. Sexual crimes are notoriously hard to prosecute.
A few high profile convictions will be good to possibly deter potential offenders who are ‘nobodies’.

You’re jumping the gun a bit there, this is just a civil case and it’s far from clear he’ll be convicted.

“never understood why his ever present police escort cant just come forward and confirm dates and locations for, say, Pizza Express visits” Their silence is telling too: either they aren’t ever-present and don’t know where he’s been (which is a security risk that I think they are cagey about/guilty of) or they do know he was there.

He’s not been charged with anything by the CPS, so there’s no need / requirement for them to do / say anything. Discrestion is part of the job of the close protection service, one leak to the press and you could loose your job and your pension etc. There will be accurate records available, so if it ever gets to a criminal prosecution, I’m sure that evidence would be made available.

There is of course the possibility he was telling the truth and there is no cover up….

US prosecution should ask the question, is this another one that comes back to Cressida Dick ?

Why would US prosecutors be at all intested in her?

I remember him frequently talking about Randy Andy around 30 years ago, even then it was an open secret.

I don’t think anyone is suprised by that, even I remember that nick name from the 80s/90s.

Because we paid for it, we pay for his luxury lifestyle and we paid for him to fly the globe doing whatever he was doing. Yet, despite, that, he is absolutely devoid of any humility. He absolutely, completely and without hesitation thinks he is better than us and above the law. His smirking arrogance and sense of entitlement is off the scale. More so than that though, a victim has come forward and she has the right to be heard, and he has the right to defend himself. Hiding behind royal privilege does nothing to help either party, except to perhaps make him look more guilty.

That’s the first rational explanation on this thread so far!

Given that he hasn’t evaded the civil case yet, and this isn’t the first case delayed by difficulty serving papes, I would say it’s a bit soon to worry about avoiding justice.

I have every reason to believe Virginia Giuffre whose account fits with all the evidence made public – logical coherent and makes sense. I have no reason to believe Andy whose account is implausible on many levels and lacks evidence that should be there but isn’t.

Do we? Or can we just jump to another conclusion? If we know then why are we bothering with a trial?

Alternatives could include him being coerced to attend a “chit chat” with evidence of a setup held over him. Perfect target really. Would also explain why he would be so keen to avoid any trial.

Not saying that’s what happened but it’s just one of many possibilities other than what the tabloids are punting. This is why we have due process.

Your alternative is another tabloid style possibility, which offers a jump to another conclusion, one that suggests there is enough ‘evidence’ for a ”chit chat”.

Epstein was in the business of using evidence, there was an unconnected report of him installing cameras in a bedroom at one of these parties, I think it’s reasonably safe to assume these parties offered things other parties didn’t, and those that went, and went back, and stayed in touch with people they met there, knew what was going on at the party they were at.

Crime committed or not, is this what tax payers want to fund?

the general enthusiam to forget due process

Nearly every poster in this thread other than you is complaining about someone using their status and the security we pay for to AVOID due process.

it’s all very “organized crime” to use the hired muscle to prevent the lawful serving of papers.