Place your bets – Pistorius

He’ll get fined £200 for a replacement door and £2.99 for ruining that bucket, but he’ll be able to claim back the cost of four rounds from her family.

On the night of Steenkamp’s death, Pistorius used Black Talon hollow-point bullets, that Gert Saayman, the forensic medicine department at the University of Pretoria, described in court as “an expanding bullet” designed to cause “maximum tissue damage”

Pretty standard though, if you carry a gun for self defence you normally load it will hollow point so that any hit you get causes maximum damage. You don’t a bullet to pass straight through soft tissue and the attacker to still come at you….

Is his brother one of those Tom Cruise clones ?

It looks like there will already be an error on the Judges ruling/part:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2014/sep/11/oscar-pistorius-verdict-trial-live

I am impressed by your reading choices Hora – I was just about to post that

Is anyone so stupid that they dont realise that firing four bullets at someone [ through a door] might kill them?

Is anyone so stupid that they dont realise that firing four bullets at someone [ through a door] might kill them?

If hes bright he’ll be on the first plane out before the State lodges an appeal and re-confiscates his passport. That is- if he gets his passport back straight away..

We expected the court to have resumed by now but the judge is not back. Nor yet is the prosecution team. All other parties appear to be back in the room.

Interesting…maybe they are already pointing this out.

called to the judges chambers.. last minute deal methinks

Dont think its going to be a Bernie deal but I reckon somethings come up that might close the proceedings early.

Last chance Oscar …

Surely the point is that the prosecution didn’t prove that he knew he was going to kill the person behind the door. Is the chance he might kill enough?

I am impressed by your reading choices Hora – I was just about to post that

It’s free, we can all understand that. Plus its useful to read things from different viewpoints. IMO BBC coverage is better and live video feed working vs Guardian hanging regularly.

Surely the point is that the prosecution didn’t prove that he knew he was going to kill the person behind the door. Is the chance he might kill enough?

They didn’t prove it was pre-meditiated. I think the judge will say he did know what he was doing and that he knew he might kill.

its still manslaughter so culpaple homicide still valid

“On this charge, the judge will need to assign a degree of negligence. The higher the negligence, the longer the prison term. If convicted on this charge, he could face up to 15 years.”

ref: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26985770

This is all interesting whats happening now. Is this allowed/can the Judge amend or change at such a late stage? Doesn’t give much confidence in the SA judicial system if so.

Now the Defence called? I’m guessing an Adjournment and possible retrial with a different Judge?!! (far fetched but why would the Prosecution call in the Defence for discussion at this stage).

Judge: ‘A reasonable person would not have fired four shots into the toilet cubicle’
Masipa says that if Pistorius had woken to see a “silhouette” by his bed and shot that figure, even if it turned out to be Steenkamp, he would have acted reasonably.

But she does not think a reasonable person would have fired four shots into the toilet cubicle. A reasonable person would have foreseen that the person inside could have been struck and could have died.

Ah! Shes reversed her previous decision on dolus eventualis.

Masipa says Pistorius acted “too hastily and used excessive force … It is clear his conduct was negligent.”

And with that, court adjourns for the day.

He is now ****.

8:30 tomorrow morning folks.
Some sort of deal being cooked up for sure!

its all going against oscar… with emphasis on not excusable!

What !!!! We break until tomorrow after she says

I find the accused knew the might kill, knew what he was doing, was competant in the use of firearms and that he was negligent.

(and then like the two Ronnies would say)

in other news, it’s tea time so I am off see you tomorrow !

ahhhhh..round two..see you tomorrow folks

Some sort of deal being cooked up for sure!

No. The Judge made a mistake in intepretation on dolus eventualis. It looks like the meeting was called to discuss that point (possibly instigated by the Prosecutor which makes sense).

Ah! Shes reversed her previous decision on dolus eventualis.

No, I don’t think so as that’s to do with legal intent, not negligence, and simply rules out the murder charges, not culpable homicide (which is what he’s clearly going to be found guilty of).

It is all a bit Deal or no Deal though “and after the break…”

This lot are clearly getting paid day rates.

If this was a fixed price job old Oscar would have been sent down months ago.

All will be revealed tomorrow on..

Will there be a boxset? 😐

Bkinkin ek, bet he’s carping himself.. 😯

As Roy said in Bladerunner, quite an experience to live in fear isn’t it.

I’m surprised at the judges wording as much as the verdict, but I suspect that we need to remember that South African crime – against all races – involves a routine level of violence that we don’t see over here, so his actions are not being judged by normal UK values.

My relatives over there tell some really unpleasant stories about what is normal in terms of attacks and defence.

he leaps up

How might he do this with no legs on? [/quote]
Well a “special forces” dude might roll along the floor like they do in the movies to avoid being seen. He could have managed that.

I’ll bet it makes him sick that his fate will be decided by a black woman.
is a hell of an accusation to make about anyone without any sort of anything to back it up with?

Earlier trial coverage had focused on his arrogance and a sense of entitlement as part of a minority white privileged wealthy ‘upper’ class. I obviously don’t know him personally, but its no secret that a lot of whites in SA still look down on the black population.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/oscar-pistorius-trial-mirror-south-african-society

Surely the point is that the prosecution didn’t prove that he knew he was going to kill the person behind the door. Is the chance he might kill enough?

Well know one can know for sure, even if you are trying to, but i would say firing 4 bullets, that expand on impact, at someone then you probably are trying to kill them.

DRUM ROLL STARTS

looks like he’s getting off….

So far I am of the opinion that this judgement must have cost the Pistorius family a small fortune.

guilty of the lesser charge…

accused cannot be found guilty of murder, dolos directus or dolus eventualis, on basis on his belief and conduct, it cannot be said that he foresaw that either the deceased or anyone else for that matter might be killed when he fired the shots at the toilet door”

Everytime you fire four bullets at someone it seems reasonable to assume they MIGHT die as a result of this .
Not getting that logic at all tbh

GUilty of culpabale homicide not murder

will he do time?

Everytime you fire four bullets at someone it seems reasonable to assume they MIGHT die as a result of this .
Not getting that logic at all tbh

Nor me. Putting 4 dumdum bullets through a door, when you know there is someone behind it (whether he knew it was his girlfriend or genuinely thought it was an intruder, we’ll never know) – that has to be an action that I’d be pretty confident would have a very high chance of death.

Everytime you fire four bullets at someone it seems reasonable to assume they MIGHT die as a result of this .

Murder has to be premeditated, they have to prove he planned to kill her.

warton – Member

will he do time?

Not necessarily, but surely he will – I’ll guess 8 years…

Murder has to be premeditated, they have to prove he planned to kill her

Do they? I thought the lesser charge was of acting in a way that you could reasonably foresee that someone is likely to be killed as a result. Like for example firing 4 bullets through a door when you know someone’s the other side.

“The judge says that the “accused cannot be found guilty of murder, dolos directus or dolus eventualis, on basis on his belief and conduct, it cannot be said that he foresaw that either the deceased or anyone else for that matter might be killed when he fired the shots at the toilet door”.

I can’t square that he couldn’t reasonably foresee the result.

As opposed to the one he got found for, which is negligence. It was more than negligent, surely.

I win the internetz today folks, (so do many others) I placed my “bet” and won with Culpable Homicide. Still reckon on him facing jail and 15 years.

I don’t actually feel quite right about this, I mean “betting” on someone elses fate. Guess thats why I’m not a Judge.

😕