Pentecost………..well i never.

I suspect you are gobbing off though in the abstract though, rather than accurately communicating your views though.

I quite often find there is a big difference between the views you hold and the way you end up feeling about someone once you’re confronted with their humanity.

I think TJ is getting carried away with a philosophical ideal and in reality the views he’s expressing here probably aren’t followed up by his actions with people he actually meets.

He wouldn’t be the first person to misrepresent himself with ill communicated views on the internet….he won’t be the last either.

I quite often find there is a big difference between the views you hold and the way you end up feeling about someone once you’re confronted with their humanity

Exactly, and well put. When you’re 15 or 16 you form these views in a bit of a vacuum, so they can be quite extreme. However as you grow older, meet lots of different people and have various experiences, you are confronted with lots of humanity and you can begin to see things from other points of view. And then you start assimilating lots of different points of view which is vital for a proper understanding of the world imo.

Ten quid says TJ will be praying on his deathbed, even for a split second.

Tolerance is the net result of the experience and emapathy for another person’s humanity.

People who struggle with the experience of empathy often find it harder to accept other peopels’ perspectives.

Those who are utterly devoid of the capacity for emapthy end up being sociopaths.

Junkyard – Member

I wouldn’t dream of taking the piss out of them.

And you have to be some sort of idiot if you think you have the right to do so.”

Prince Philip actually asked the question to a highly successful Aboriginal businessman – he was clearly taking the piss. I like pisstaking.

So which are you an idiot or a hypocrit ?

😕 Eh ? Yes I take the piss…….I am “a pisstaker”, everyone who knows me knows that. And I wouldn’t for a minute attempt to deny it.

But I don’t take the piss out of someone’s religion, I don’t take the piss out of someone’s mother, I don’t take the piss out of someone’s children, etc.

How difficult is it for you to work that out Junkyard ? Do you not understand the concept of “common-sense” ? Can you really not see the difference between having a laugh and a joke, and being offensive and obnoxious ? …… TJ in the example quoted, was talking about taking the piss out of someone’s religion in a deliberately offensive manner.

Are you pretending to be stupid by suggesting that it’s all the same thing ? Or as a fully paid-up member of the PC Brigade can you genuinely not see the difference with a harmless joke and a deliberate attempt to be insulting and offensive ?

BTW unlike TJ, I’m perfectly happy for you to think I am both an idiot and a hypocrite, so there’s no need to chose between the two……’cause I quite frankly couldn’t give a monkeys 😀

TandemJeremy – Member

I am intolerant of those who use their religious beliefs to claim a moral superiority……..

However if they want to use their belief to claim a moral superiority ……….

Twice in one post you claim that your only issue with someone who has religious beliefs is when they “claim a moral superiority”. Which would probably be a valid claim if it wasn’t for the fact that it’s complete bollox.

No one with religious beliefs comes on here claiming “a moral superiority” and yet that doesn’t stop you frothing at the mouth about religion. Furthermore I very much doubt that anyone in your real life ever claims to you to have a moral superiority over you because of their religious beliefs.

I don’t think I can ever recalled anyone ever telling me, that they were morally superior to me because if their religious beliefs. And if they had, I would have just shrugged it off. Your whole justification for your offensive and insulting rants concerning people with religious beliefs is actually a non-issue. And for that reason I reckon it’s bollox……just a feeble excuse.

Ernie – I have been told on here that all morality comes from god and as a non believer I cannot have any morals. Just one of the more overt examples and as I said I will never be offensive and take the piss until they are offensive to me by pushing their views onto me.

Leave me alone and I will leave them alone.

Leave me alone and I will leave them alone.

Except that loads of them probably are leaving you alone – you don’t even know they’re religious most of the time.

Again – the ones that proselytise are annoying, yes, but they don’t all do that. In fact most don’t. Many of them don’t feel that they are superior.

I loathe and despise religion and the religious, I believe all people who believe in god(s) are feeble minded.

I think the religious, religion and belief in god as an incredibly regressive, negative, dangerous and harmful mental illness. It is a force of incredible harm and holds back the human race.

+1, especially the second paragraph. In this day and age the thought of people believing in religion is beyond me. I would agree with everyone to their own and all that, except that religion has such a negative effect on the world.

Leave me alone and I will leave them alone.

“Why’s everybody always pickin’ on me”

Ernie – I have been told on here that all morality comes from god and as a non believer I cannot have any morals.

But not in this thread,
nevertheless you have been offensive and taken the piss even though no one has pushed their views onto you, despite what you say

I said I will never be offensive and take the piss until they are offensive to me by pushing their views onto me

Charlie – you have done it several times.

“2) What evidence for your god(s) existence exists”

Love and happiness

so love and happiness can only come from God – how patronising.

CharlieMungus – Member

“Not only do I not believe, i positively reject your gods and I enjoy wonderful love and happiness”

But they give it to you anyway, that’s just how nice they are. That’s more evidence for you.

More patronising

Some religious people spreading love and happiness, earlier…

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8570506/Police-covered-up-violent-campaign-to-turn-London-area-Islamic.html

so love and happiness can only come from God – how patronising.

Nope, didn’t say that. So..not patronising.

But they give it to you anyway, that’s just how nice they are. That’s more evidence for you.

More patronising

How so?

Charlie – you have done it several times.

done what? Pushed my views on to you? You asked me a question!

with every passing post, tj gets nearer in his quest to prove the non existence of hell

So TJ, just to be clear, if someone loathed and despised you for no other reason than that you were an atheist, you would have no problem with that? Alternatively, if we look at your post-backpedalling position, if you told someone that you did not believe there was a god, and they thereafter ridiculed you for that belief, that would be ok with you?
If so, good for you. If not, you are indeed a hypocrite.
How does your hatred (and lets not pretend loathing and despising is different to hatred) of religious people differ from the catholic that hates protestants, or the muslim that hates jews? It is the hatred of those with different beliefs, which you have admitted that you hold, that causes all the problems you blame on religion, not the religions themselves.
You need to take a good look in the mirror my friend. I hope you do. All the best.

EDIT And I’m well aware of all the wars that have been started in the name of religion, and not aware of any that have been started in the name of atheism, so don’t try and shove that red herring into the argument. It is the hatred and intolerance of others that causes the problems, not the specific beliefs of the haters.

No kenny – you are missing (deliberatly?) the point. You are consistently distorting my words – and yes I have met many people who think of the non believer as a lessor being. I hate religion for the harm it does. I do not hate the individual.
As I said my words that you picked up on were far from clear. I did attempt to clarify. However its clearly useless to discuss religion on here and I am sorry I forgot that and got involved.

I’m not distorting your words TJ, I’m reading them, on page 4 of this thread – “I loathe and despise religion and the religious“.

If you are retracting what seems to me a very clear statement, then I revise my opinion of you (favourably), and accept that you did not convey yourself as you intended. There are no hard feelings from me, be assured of that.

However its clearly useless to discuss religion on here and I am sorry I forgot that and got involved

Everyone else seems to manage OK.

Kenny – yes I was not clear and attempted to clarify further down on page 5.

The individual I do not loathe and despise of necessity. The religions I do because of the harm they cause. However without followers the religions have no power to do the harm so all adherents are culpable but the extent of their culpability varies.

so all adherents are culpable but the extent of their culpability varies.

Just like all citizens are responsible for the actions of their government?
All care professionals are responsible for the abuses in the news last week?
I don’t know, but I suspect that you would find an awful lot of people, of various religions, who utterly despise some of the things done by others in the name of that religion as much as you do.

The religions I do because of the harm they cause.

Surely it’s the people that do the harm, not the religion.

Some people seem fixated on getting a sound bite out of people and when they have one that suits their belief or their side of the argument (or just gives them a cause), they will hammer the that point to death.

It’s like listening to John Humphrys interviewing with on Radio 4 trying desperately to get a headline for the next hours news.

so all adherents are culpable but the extent of their culpability varies.

So what are you trying to say now…….that how much you loathe and despise also varies ?

How charitable of you.

Some people seem fixated on getting a sound bite out of people and when they have one that suits there belief (or just gives them a cause), they will hammer the point to death.

The issue here is TJ. TJ is constantly alleging that he has been misquoted/quoted out of context/had his words distorted, so people can be forgiven for insisting that TJ explains exactly what he means.

As far as I can figure out what TJ exactly means tends to be highly variable…….its dependant on whether it makes him look bad or not.

Some people seem fixated on getting a sound bite out of people and when they have one that suits their belief or their side of the argument (or just gives them a cause), they will hammer the that point to death.

Not sure if that’s for me or not?

I don’t have a side or cause in this matter/argument. I do read the threads with interest though.

Everyone is welcome to their view as far as I’m concerned, it would be boring if we were all the same.

Hypocrisy gets my goat however, which is what I challenged. TJ has since clarified what he meant, and I am happy to give him the benefit of the doubt. I don’t necessarily agree with his reasoning, but see above.

Prince Philip actually asked the question to a highly successful Aboriginal businessman – he was clearly taking the piss. I like pisstaking.

So which are you an idiot or a hypocrit ?

Eh ? Yes I take the piss…….I am “a pisstaker”, everyone who knows me knows that. And I wouldn’t for a minute attempt to deny it.

But I don’t take the piss out of someone’s religion, I don’t take the piss out of someone’s mother, I don’t take the piss out of someone’s children, etc.

How difficult is it for you to work that out Junkyard ? Do you not understand the concept of “common-sense” ? Can you really not see the difference between having a laugh and a joke, and being offensive and obnoxious ? …… TJ in the example quoted, was talking about taking the piss out of someone’s religion in a deliberately offensive manner.

Oh dear. 😕

How difficult is it for you to work that out Junkyard ? Do you not understand the concept of “common-sense” ? Can you really not see the difference between having a laugh and a joke, and being offensive and obnoxious ?

If there is one thing to be said about Prince Phillips humour it is is certainly the fact it is neither offensive nor obnoxious good call ernie an excellent point well made

can you genuinely not see the difference with a harmless joke and a deliberate attempt to be insulting and offensive ?

Of course i can see the difference but you used the word piss taking in both quotes and i dont think you will get me for the fallacy of equivocation here.

The individual I do not loathe and despise of necessity. The religions I do

That is most definitely not what you said originally!

proper can of worms i opened here……………sorry.

It is the hatred and intolerance of others that causes the problems, not the specific beliefs of the haters.

This doesn’t take into account the hatred of others because of membership of a different set of superstitions though, does it – the Crusades, for instance. If there was no religion, the one group would not hate the other – there being nothing to spur the hatred…

proper can of worms i opened here……………sorry

Hmmm, like you didn’t know…… 🙂

not sure it is that simple Whoppit. Tribes can war over many things such as respurces [ oil] and none of the recent wars were religious in nature. The end of religion wont stop war or hatred or intolernance.
It is fair to say [ unless we all join one it has not brought about world harmony but neither has anything else either.

crikey, i am to thick to to have done what you are suggesting.

pah that bit is a lie anymore of that and some fist pie is coming your way

Nope, just cos you’re big doesn’t mean you’re not clever…

Junkyard, I take your point.

Look into my eyes … look into my eyes … follow me … I am the one …. call me yourrrrr …. Deeaaarrr Leader. I am lovvveeeee! 😈

*Small print* – membership is only for fit female only so male & ugly people need not apply and will be treated as slave to be stepped on.

Jesus saves. He must be well annoyed with the poor interest rates on offer these days.

If there is one thing to be said about Prince Phillips humour it is is certainly the fact it is neither offensive nor obnoxious good call ernie an excellent point well made

Thanks 8) ……… although perhaps you could have made that point on the appropriate thread ?

.

ton – Member

proper can of worms i opened here……………sorry.

😀