PDNPA & PeakDistrictMTB

@Fasternotfatter – take a moment to read the original post and the earlier thread.

This is not about being divisive or exclusive.
There is a rationale for this being set up as it is.
I would be happy to chat through why this is the case – mobile in the thread up there ^^^.
Your support would be very much appreciated, the aim is for a benefit for all.
Just had a chat to BWD who, I hope, now gets why we are formed as we are.

Cheers, P.

Rogerthecat, even as an “outsider”, your efforts are appreciated. I assume for the bulk of what you do, the “voice” will be the total number of members rather than things being split down. I assume if the powers that be do try to discount the voice of outsiders, that they’ll do the same with all interest groups and not just us.

I’d like to think that we might have more “local” supporters than was first thought.

Are businesses within the PDNP boundary adding their voice? 18 Bikes and Cotic are two that spring to mind.

I’ll sign up as a supporter, as I now comfortably qualify, and well done for picking up the baton.

On the membership restrictions though – if it’s a Derbyshire thing then there’s no reason not to include the towns and villages in NW Derbyshire that aren’t within the Park. Otherwise that is just adding insult to injury if you live in Chapel / Chinley / Hayfield. Live in Derbyshire, ride the Roych / Chapelgate but you’re a second class citizen.

What about the Cheshire / Staffordshire bit of the Peak?

Thanks to Paul for taking the time to explain some of the behind the scene stuff. I can’t say I totally agree with the rationale behind it, but equally it’s understandable and I think people need to bear in mind that in the longer term, there’s plenty of scope for things to change and for the remit of the group to widen.

And even if I seem slightly dubious – it goes with the territory – I absolutely applaud the guys for getting this off the ground. The way National Parks function, the most effective way for mountain biking to get its voice heard in the Peak, is to have a formalised representative body because that’s what the Park Authority is accustomed to dealing with from other interest groups.

Can I have that tenner now please Paul? 🙂

Signed up. Thank you so much for all your hard work!

Signed up….!

£10 in the post chap, stay away form booze and loose women. 😉

If I go on holidays regularly to Scotland should I get a vote in Scottish Parliament?

Signed up as an outsider as the PDNP is also my playground. Happy to write strongly worded letters and do general lobbying or protesting!

Get a grip, no-one’s voting for anything, some people are are supporting a cause.

I know, I am part of it. Just highlighting the rationale of some posters on here.

Pardon me, misunderstood your point.

Signed.

If I go on holidays regularly to Scotland should I get a vote in Scottish Parliament?

Well it works for Sean Connery 😉

But the point being made is that some folks signing up are Derbyshire residents and are just as entitled to an opinion on how DCC spends their Council Tax as those that happen to reside within the PDNP boundary.

but you cant expect a mountain bike group to solve all of the constitutional-type problems with the system of representation and local government!

how many have signed up so far?

In the excitement of signing up for what – to my eyes – seems an extremely worthwhile exercise, I must have missed something. When did this become just about Derbyshire? Last time I checked a BIG chunk of the National Park is in Staffordshire.

Ok, can we just reiterate why we set this up.
It’s to enable us (mountainbikers) to have a seat at the table alongside other groups that position themselves firmly as representing the interests of resident/local user groups, be that horse, 4×4, trailbike, walker, landowner, etc.
The PDNPA has plans for cycling in the park and we need to be in amongst it so can we focus our efforts on getting the best for mountain bikers in the Peak Park, if can do more that’s a bonus

Many thanks to all those who have signed up, your support is very much appreciated. Have a very happy Yuletide and a happy New Year from those of us at PeakDistrict MTB.

Here here

The 4×4 and trail rider groups have been trying to work with PDNPA over route management for over 10 years but PDNPA have refused point blank to come to the table. They just prefer to spend £250k + on a blanket ban. However, their incompetance has meant that the money has been spent yet no bans are yet in force.

I hope that no-one expects anything to their advantage from this. PDNPA will just dictate what they want.

I hope that no-one expects anything to their advantage from this. PDNPA will just dictate what they want.

so we should do f*** all instead?

Hubert,

I don’t know if you know much about the 4×4 groups and the motorbike groups, but not only do they spoil the park (for peaceful non-motor users) but they go about things in a very bizarre if not suicidal way. They have been ‘protesting’ in the Park by encouraging as many motors as possible to parade up and down non-surfaced lanes which has only served to show to the vast majority of residents, farmers and non-motor users that there really, really don’t want them!

It’s nearly as buffoon-ist as the tactic they used a few years ago challenging TROs (legal orders used to ban 4x4s on the grounds of spoiling the special qualities of green lanes) in the courts. They spent all the money paid by their members to go to court, which gave them a ‘win’ so they said ‘hey look we got them over turned’ but all that happened was the judge set out the bits in the order that were wrong so the authorities could re-do that part of the order and ‘perfect’ it so that it was legally bomb-proof when they went straight back and remade the orders. I believe they spent well over £100,000 on legal costs over the last 5 years. Bizarre! But there again they have several paid directors and paid contractors who make a living doing this legal work so I suppose it’s not that surprising!

C

Excellent idea, well done to the OP.

Joined up.

^^ +1

Nice one

Yes, ChrisE,

I am aware of the 4×4 and Trail Rider groups and the constant battle they have in the face of hijacked legislation since 2000 and targeted discrimination from local and national park authorities. It’s a perfectly legal pastime and those who are members of these organisations observe their codes of conduct.

You shouldn’t be surprised that they have had to spend all that money and operate as limited companies as they have to protect their members from the possible effects of losing in court when challenging illegal road closures.

Take some time to consider the time and money spent by the Ramblers in court challenging illegal footpath closures and the numbers of full time staff they employ. They are a multi-million pound business with charitable status to boot.

I am sure that responsible riders and drivers would much prefer to enjoy their pastime and the countryside rather than fighting tooth and nail for their rights.

I have lived and worked around the Peak District all my life and hear far more complaints about ramblers and horse riders than motorists, especially around litter and trespass.

@Hubert – as we were asked to bring the concerns of resident MTB riders to the table by the PDNPA in the first place, I suggest that the approach of a less confrontational approach seems to be paying dividends. They want to share their plans with us, ask advice and consult on matters that concern MTB riders across the Peak Park (and we will, of course, also take the views of non park residents to the table). I would suggest that this implies that they are open for constructive dialogue, I cannot speak for the approach taken by the 4X4 & Trail Rider lobbies but it looks like we have a positive start with the PDNPA.

Just signed up too. Nice to see people giving up their own time for everyone’s benefit.
Thanks guys,
Simon.

I agree with Hubert, I live in a “chocolate box” village in the PDNP and the litter that some ramblers (and some DoE groups) leave behind is amazing.

The attached link to the Eastern Moors partnership is quite interesting as it gives an indication of what remedial work is being undertaken or proposed to a number of Bridleways

http://www.easternmoors.org.uk/what-we-do/index.html

Not exactly relevant to this thread but it is interesting

@Woody21 – likewise, and I also get pissed off seeing energy gel wrappers lying around and the odd inner tube hanging from a tree – no one group has precedence where littering is concerned, we could all do better.

And having just got back from a blast around the valley in the beautiful sunshine I met nothing but happy walkers all of whom opened gates and beamed their good mornings as I nipped through.

😀

the thing with the PDNPA (and the other highway authorities in the area) is that they need to engage with users. Having a one-stop group that will represent the needs of mountainbikers will tick all their boxes and should be productive for both us and the Park.

I live in the Yorkshire Dales NNPA and am very much engaged with them. I find I’m pushing on an open door as they very much want to encourage MTB use and the Park (here) has made a huge contribution to helping the area be brilliant for biking. the list is huge but adding extra (paid for) bridleways, the bridge over the Ribble, getting over £1m funding for the Pennine BW works through the Park, helping Stu with the Dales MTB centre near Reeth, giving bike repair kits to numerous B&B’s just to mention some. The Dales sees MTBs as getting people out in the countryside, helping to get people fit, above all it is quiet and peaceful, they say it does less damage (per user)than some other user groups, brings money into the area, contributes to less car/motor miles being done in the Park etc.

Let me know if you want any of the pointers that have been used to great effect in YDNPA

C

Nice one Rogerthecat.

Signing up now as a Belper non-PDNP resident. But I regularly cycle in to the park.

If anyone wants to join us for a pint tonight after our meeting then Peak Ale is 1.50 a pint until it runs out! cressbrook club at 9:30pm

OK, let’s knock this them and us crap on the head right now. Peak District MTB spoke to a number of the Ride Sheffield crowd before setting this up and we intend to stay in close contact – many hands make light work. Already, RogertheCat has joined us at a pretty successful meeting with PeakHorsepower, (a very effective horse riders lobby group). The fact is that while the interests of local riders and those who visit from neighbouring areas would seem to be indistinguishable from each other, the PDNPA and DCC don’t see it that way. Therefore a local group has a good deal of merit. Equally, the new bridleways that have been opened by the Eastern Moors Partnership and should soon open on Longshaw Estate have been heavily influenced by Ride Sheffield because it’s right on our doorstep. We can work for common goals. Ride Sheffield has built solid links with the PDNPA over the last three years and if we can use those to help out PDMTB, that’s surely got to be a good thing. I’d like to believe that some time in the future, we can get to the point where all these local groups coalesce into a national group similar to the British Mountaineering Council so that we have an effective voice at national level. Until then, local groups of enthusiastic Mbers are the way forward. Let’s not dilute that enthusiasm with petty point scoring. I’ve met the PDMTB lot and they’re not that weird…. 🙂

Cheers for the endorsement John, it just seems that some on here and around and about purely want to put a spanner in the works and be cantankerous. Ride Sheffield do a great job that we are trying to emulate.
If as John says, everyone pulled together anyway none of this would be necessary.

If you are willing to offer support, help, expertise, knowledge etc, then regardless of where you are from, join and help. If you are purely trying to knock and show yourselves up on a public forum then so be it 🙂

I’ve met the PDMTB lot and they’re not that weird

I’ve met them too and the jury’s still out 😉

There are several fairly sizeable towns and villages that are hubs for mountain biking and mountain bikers that are not in the Peak District National Park (Matlock, Ashbourne, Hayfield, Glossop, Chapel, Buxton). Mountain bikers in Leek and Macclesfield also have PDNP riding on their doorstep but aren’t even in Derbyshire. They should still have input and – as a Leek resident – I intend to contribute in whatever way I can.

Bear in mind that some of PDNP’s ideas are for links into the park which by definition involve creating/improving trails from outside of the park. Some of the ideas aren’t even in Derbyshire. This project needs representation from non-Park and non-Derbyshire residents since it’s their local trails we’re talking about. I applaud the core group for driving it forward even if I can’t sit at the “top table”.

Just to highlight the key point from the OP

rogerthecat – Member
Hi all,

A few weeks ago I posted a thread about Peak District National Park Authority (PDNPA) wanting to speak to resident mountain bikers about PDNPA’s plans for cycling and, more specifically, mountain biking within the park.

Things are now afoot.

Nice one rogerthecat. Shared on my Facebook page and I’ll get something up on my website[/url] later too as it’s very Peaks related!

Was chatting to a guy at work yesterday (he lives & rides in the Peak)as he’s just bought a new mountain bike. He didn’t know that he was supposed to stick to BWs, on his old bike he just rode everywhere and still sees no problem in doing that.

I think it would be wise if PDNP etc learned that there are cyclists and then there are cyclists.

Duly signed up.

Thanks to all those who are using their resources and time putting this together, it’s greatly appreciated.

Thepodge – our first agenda item at the meeting is to educate them on that exact point using some short video clips of MTB in the Peak